Fuel pressure regulator.

[John Schmidt]

Anybody know of a reliable fuel pressure regulator that can be adjusted to less than 2psi? Converted my GL1200 project to a single carb using a new Solex knock-off(Empi) and installed a new elec. fuel pump from an '85 Honda Prelude. Works fine but for one small item....the pump apparently is overpowering the float needle in the carb. That carb float can only handle about 1.5psi and after a couple minutes the engine starts to bog down like the choke is on when not needed. I pull the connection to the pump and after a few seconds the engine settles down and runs fine. Hook it back up and after about 20-30 sec. it starts to bog down again. And, you can smell it in the exhaust....smells raw and rich. I need to adj. the carb fuel/air mix but with this problem I can't get it to settle down long enough to do any adjusting.

[rhinor61]

Hi,

I had good luck with the 1-4 psi regulator from
Holley 12-804 - Holley Fuel Pressure Regulators.

I could never find a decent gauge to leave under the hood but
once I set the pressure, I never had to touch the regulator.

hope this helps

John

[Patrick]

There are some for low pressure pumps/regulators that are adjustable, can't tell you much else though.
A good parts store or supply house [ like Summit, etc] should have what you're looking for, maybe.

[John Schmidt]

Hi,

I had good luck with the 1-4 psi regulator from
Holley 12-804 - Holley Fuel Pressure Regulators.

I could never find a decent gauge to leave under the hood but
once I set the pressure, I never had to touch the regulator.

hope this helps

John

I had looked at that one before. Problem with some regulators and believe it applies to that one also....you need to have a greater pressure than the max of the regulator. If not, you can't adjust it down to a lower pressure. I'm toying with the idea of a petcock in the line which I can open partially, creating a bit of regulation of fuel delivered. Found it strange on my fuel pump, I can hook up a pressure gauge and after a few seconds the back pressure causes the pump to stop as it's designed to do. But when hooked to the carb and the bowl fills, it just keeps on pumping which makes me think the float needle may be defective or the float set too high.

The pump only puts out roughly 2.75 psi which doesn't seem to me is high enough to cause trouble unless the float isn't seating as it should. I'm still experimenting.

[gordonv]

Maybe look into a Shadow ACE Tourer fuel pump (VT1100T). I have one I was going to add to my Valk, but no Valk, and I've hung onto it for the future. If it might work for you, I can always ship it down to you, and if it works you have a few years to replace it for me.

[Punisher]

The R&M Belly Tank uses a Facet/Purolator #40178 pump which has a min/max of 2.0/3.5 psi.   I've never had a problem with it overpowering the floats in the normal Valkyrie carbs so don't know about this single carb that you're using.

See this link for all their pumps and specs:

http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php

The model #40252 has a min/max of 1.0/1.5 psi.

[Grandpot]

Use a fuel filter from a 1975-1980 Jeep. It has two outputs.  On sends the gas to the carb, the other returns the excess gas back to the tank or the intake side of the pump.  Real simple, no moving parts.

[bentwrench]

I picked up a spare belly tank pump from this place.https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=7550
good prices and they have other facet pumps that may have lower  output .

Here are afew more to look athttps://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=FACET

[di1213]

How did you plumb the intake? I'm considering a single on a Gl1000.

[John Schmidt]

How did you plumb the intake? I'm considering a single on a Gl1000.

Read through this particular subject link. It's what I based my setup on and seems to work quite well except it's running too rich. There's a lot of info in these pages and you might want to join the group there. No cost and like here...it's full of information.  

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=51999

[pago cruiser]

Would a stock GL1200 fuel pump work?  Gotta be the same flow rate, and the pressure is pretty low.  These are still available from Mother Honda.  I just put a new one on my naked GL1200.

[di1213]

Thanks for the link, interesting.

The Solex ought to handle the pressure as the VW pressure  from it's mechanical would be 3-3.5 from what I've read.

[John Schmidt]

One thing I know for certain, the system is running waaaay too rich. I experimented with a petcock in the feed line from my external tank, closing it off about halfway to restrict the flow. Seemed to make a difference, the engine sat and idled fine for quite a while, long enough for the temp to come up to normal operation. But eventually the engine still would stall out. After running for some extended periods, I pulled the plugs and all are covered with black fuzzy which goes along with the exhaust smell and appearance; too rich. I hate the thought of rebuilding the four OEM carbs but may give in to that in place of the single carb setup. With the OEM's, since I'll be using a Valkyrie tank I could use gravity feed and wouldn't have to even have a fuel pump. Can't do that with my current single, the carb is at the same level as the petcock on the tank so gravity feed wouldn't work. Sure would like to get past this, I want to work on the rest of the bike so I can get it on the road.

[BonS]

Why not try gravity feed with your current setup? Not much to lose. Much if not all of the tank fluid level is above the carb and you will get some flow from this.

[John Schmidt]

Bon, with the tank mounted, the petcock is below the level of the input for the carb.  It's located on the left as viewed here, just below the filter, right above the silver looking tab you can see hanging down. Gravity feed won't work there. If I go with the OEM after rebuilding them (ugh), the intake will be well below the petcock.

[BonS]

To turn a phrase "gasoline seeks its own level". In other words, fuel will flow uphill into the carburetor. Yes, it will lose some pressure as it does so. The closer the fuel level in the tank is to the carburetor fuel level the lower the fuel pressure.

As a simple test you can put a hose on your petcock and raise the end of the hose above the petcock and if the level of gas in the tank is above the end of the hose then gas will still flow. That said, any fuel in your gas tank that is below the carburetor float fuel level will not flow into your carb. (I can't take any responsibility for any gas spilled in the experiment. )

[John Schmidt]

(I can't take any responsibility for any gas spilled in the experiment. )
OK!  
From all appearances, the petcock is actually slightly below the level of the bowl. Tomorrow I'll set the tank on just to see and make certain. At first I'm just using a manual conversion of the Valk OEM petcock, I'll install something more to my liking later.

UPDATE: Bon, this morning I set the tank in place and as I figured the petcock is well below the level of the carb bowl....by 4-5". So, it's now either get the present carb/pump system working good or rebuild the OEM carbs and then let gravity do its job. That's at least $115 for the kits and another $40 for a 1200 carb manual which I'd not start without. Not counting the time and labor involved in four rebuilds.  

[BonS]

John, how about sourcing a low pressure fuel pump? The Prelude pump probably puts out 30 psi or so. I looked up Solex and they're talking 3-5 psi. Edelbrock states 6.5 psi max. I quickly looked at low pressure fuel pumps on eBay and see them in the $25 range for a 2.5-4.5 psi unit. This is an example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universal-2-5-4-5-PSI-In-Line-External-Electric-Fuel-Pump-w-Installation-Kit-/151445028357?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2342d3be05&vxp=mtr

[John Schmidt]

Bon, I think there's a problem internally in the carb, possibly the float needle isn't shutting the inflow down. I tested the pump pressure and with the back pressure it stopped at just over 2.5. Then I connected to line back on the carb and turn the key on without starting the engine. It never did stop pumping, just slowed way down. When I started the bike, the pump runs like crazy....never seems to even slow down. Then pretty soon the engine bogs down and dies. If the engine isn't running and the float is working the needle right, when the bowl is full the pump should stop. It doesn't do that.

[BonS]

It sure sounds like a carb problem with only 2.5 psi. My V-Max pump cycles for about 1 second when turned on. It then only pumps a click at a time to keep the pressure up while the engine is running. If a float sticks then the pump will run continuously while fuel flows out of the vent of the faulty carb.

[John Schmidt]

Well, I have had some degree of success with the carb today. Adjustment procedures call for the fuel flow screw to be closed all the way then backed out ~2.5 turns. So I get out my larger jewelers screwdriver and start turning it in, and turning and turning. I swear, from the factory it was set more than five full turns out, no wonder the thing was running rich. I set it initially at ~1.75 turns out since this is a smaller motor and hit the starter. It didn't quite get going so I turned the screw out another 3/4 turn, hit the starter and away it goes. All adj. are to be made after the bike is warmed up, so after a couple minutes I adjusted the air flow screw and it smoothed out even more and the RPM increased. I then backed off the fuel flow screw and the idle RPM came down to about 1100, and just sat there idling nice as you please. The throttle response is a bit sluggish but will jump the RPM up to redline with no trouble. Tomorrow, after it's cooled down I'll pull the plugs to see how they look now, should be pretty clean judging by the lack of a rich smelling exhaust. The other neat thing about all this, the fuel pump works like it's supposed to. Will run until the bowl is full, slows then stops. While running, it just pumps at a regular beat....every couple seconds, depending on engine speed. I'm somewhat encouraged.

Still tossing around the idea of rebuilding the OEM carbs, would allow me to get rid of the fuel pump altogether. The remaining problems now are small oil leaks, 3-4 of them so guess that's my next project.

[gordonv]

I've a GL1100 pdf manual. Can check with a fellow GWRRA member who used to own a GL1200 to see if he might have a pdf, and could send to you.

[John Schmidt]

I've a GL1100 pdf manual. Can check with a fellow GWRRA member who used to own a GL1200 to see if he might have a pdf, and could send to you.

Thanks for the offer but I have a Honda shop manual plus the addendums. It came in a Honda three ring binder and was actually used in a Honda dealership. Paid $40 on ebay for it a couple years ago.

[pago cruiser]

John - Sorry, but the GL1200 still needs a fuel pump - at least both of mine do. 

The 1200 carbs are a little different than the 1100's.  Not a lot, but pieces are not identical. 
The carbs aren't really that bad - just a lot of pieces; but fewer than the Valk....  All the stuff is still available from Honda, except (IIRC) the slides.  If you need new slides, they are made now (well, I guess "sold now" is prolly more correct) by the company that is banned from the NGW site - Sabre Cycle.  I replaced 4 in my solo bike, as it was running rough, and turned out (2) of the diaphrams were torn.  A bit pricey ($75 each), but they looked like stockers, and seem ok after about 6 months now.

Some folks on the NGW site go with car pumps and secondary regulators - I replaced the pump on each bike with a new $100 factory pump.  The stock one lasted almost 30 years; I prolly won't have to replace either in my remaining lifetime...

[John Schmidt]

Pago, I'm well aware of Sabre Cycle, first encounter was quite a few years ago. Ever since then I've avoided them like the plague, wouldn't buy a burial site from them for a rattlesnake. I've already replaced the old OEM pump with a new '85 Honda Prelude pump which I finally got to work right. Neither the OEM or the new one worked with the original wiring/pump relay, so I wired in a separate relay myself and works fine. As for needing a fuel pump, I won't if I go with the OEM carbs. I've adapted a Valkyrie Std. tank to the bike in place of the original tank which was a mess. The OEM carbs sit well below the new tank and it's all down hill, more so than the Valkyrie setup. I've decided to go ahead and clean up the old carbs and see how they work, then decide which I want to keep on the bike and sell the other.

[pago cruiser]

Wow!  That's a fair bit of effort with all the stuff living under the GL1200 faux tank.  Voltage regulator, air cleaner, coolant tank, and other bits and bobs..  Would love to see a pic when you're done.  That is a clean looking motor you have there.

I know their business model could definitely use some customer service added in; I know of several folks on the NGW forum who had less than pleasurable experience trying to throw money at them.  But they do have some parts I just could not find elsewhere... 

If you need some carb parts let me know.  I think I ended up buying two complete sets off of ebay in order to get enough odd parts (not normal wear parts) to rebuild mine. I discovered that there are different sequence/series numbers on carbs, and neither me nor my dealer could figure them out.  And one set of my GL carbs were from an early series, and one from the late; even though both were 1984 models.     

[John Schmidt]

Pago, here's what I did with the regulator, etc.  Since I removed the tank, I have a lot of space. The front of the tank has a lip that slips into a large slot under a cross brace, so I bolted a rectangular bit of aluminum on the bottom of that slot. Then drilled it to bolt the regulator to the bottom and one of the regulator mount bolts also holds down the fuse box holder which sits on top. For access with the Valk tank, I have a hinge welded to an extra cross brace about where the seat latches down and the rear tank bolt goes there. I merely unbolt the front of the tank and it hinges up for access to the fuses or whatever. The coolant overflow will be a polished SS cylinder mounted to the right side down tube behind the radiator ear. With the OEM carbs and no fuel pump, I'll have loads of space under there. Should run pretty cool too.