MAJOR BREAK DOWN. . . .

[KW]

When coming home to Michigan from Deals Gap yesterday, the Valk starting SHAKING. It sounded & felt like I was running over rumbled strips. . .  I immediately pulled in the clutch and it stopped. The motor (not under load) sounded fine and the oil was clean/not burned. After stopping, I made it (limped) to the next off ramp; which was only about 1/2 mile away. The feel (in trying to discribe it) was like starting off in 3rd or fourth gear. There was a hesitation, or chomp in the drivetrain. . .  There was a Honda dealer right there at the exit (wow!) They were closing, but the Service manager took her out around the parking  lot and up the street. And so my friends. . . . there the Valk sits. 200 miless from home in southern Ohio. I hopped in the chase car. The dealer is going to break open the rear  end today and call me. The Valk ran fantastic all the way down and around nearly every 'known' road in and around Deals Gap. We put nearly a 1000 miles on her - JUST in Tenn and N.C. . .  We had been pressing hard coming homw - 85 mph plus the whole way. I did notice some slight vibration at one point coming out of the mountains. I thought it was the clutch over heating. . . . I'm at a lost, but I guessing it's a major break in the final? or the drive shaft? If it's repairable (and hopefully not too expensive) my wife and I will run down and I'll drive it homw next week. If not. . . I'll bring the trailer.

I'm so bummed out. . . But, my friends, it doesn't detract from the great time and wonderful riding we had for a week in the great States of N.C and Tenn. The locals were friendly and the people we met from all over the world were some of the best. And, I'm glad there was a dealer right where she broke down. Thank God!

[Patrick]

The odds are that its either wheel bearings or u-joint.. It could be drive splines on either the wheel or drive shaft,,but,, my money would on either of the first two..

[Thunderbolt]

and send them this link

http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/ujoint.html

It's probably the u-joint and Chet shows you how to change it without removing the swingarm, should save you some labor at $80 hr. if it is in fact the problem.

[Chrisj CMA]

You didnt say the year and mileage......especially if it turns out to be a U-joint Id like to know how many miles it took to hit catastrophic failure.....Thanks, hope it is a simple fix, if you got her shut down as quick as it sounds, Im thinking 100 bucks and you should be back on the road........I wouldnt let a dealer touch it.

[sandy]

I'm sure it's a U joint too. Dealer price is $125 plus labor. My guess it'll be $500 before you get it back. As for predicting this: I changed out my perfectly good U joint at 92K. A friend "grenaded" his at 43K. No way to predict.

[KW]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager. . . He thinks it's the U-joint as well. Since I went home (versus staying in the Hotel) they're going to get to it Monday morning and not today.  He said the 1 hour labor he's charging to check it out, should be enough to cover the U-joint replacement labor (if that's what it is.) The guy (and the shop) both sound legitimate.  I arrived at closing time, rode away to try it out again, then came back. They openned up the shop, let me in and I was there for a good hour after closing time. . . Nevertheless; I'm anticipating being told it's going to be a couple hundred bucks. Then I'll have to decide how much 'finishing the ride' means to me, versus bringing it home and fixing it. If I trailer down/back, the Yukon will cost at least twice as much (or more) as the car and price of gas for the bike. . . .

BTW - It's a 99 Standard and was about to turn over 44,000. So, it's a low milliage Valk. I just changed BOTH tires within the last month and greased the spndles AND checked the bearings. Everything looked/felt good.

Thanks Patrick for the insight and thanks everyone else for the other comments and direction. I'll find out Monday 

[R J]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager. . .

BTW - It's a 99 Standard and was about to turn over 44,000. So, it's a low milliage Valk. I just changed BOTH tires within the last month and greased the spndles AND checked the bearings. Everything looked/felt good.

Did you loosen the 4 bolts on the rearend houding and let it align itself, then retighten them?

That makes U-joints last longer.....

Okay experts, flame away, but I know of 2 other people who do this on rear wheel removal besides me.     Daniel Meyer is one of them.

[Chrisj CMA]

I do too, besides, I rarely remove the rear wheel without removing the pumkin/driveshaft.  Maybe if its a flat on a recent R/R but other than that I always take the extra 5 minutes to inspect the driveshaft

[fudgie]

I do too, besides, I rarely remove the rear wheel without removing the pumkin/driveshaft.  Maybe if its a flat on a recent R/R but other than that I always take the extra 5 minutes to inspect the driveshaft

  Me to.

[valkmc]

Any warning signs prior to u-joint failure. I got 65,000 on mine and just replaced the dampers which really took alot of the play out of the drive train.  There is still a little so I pulled the boot back and the u-joint looks fine. I always tighten the four bolts that hold the rear end on last when I remove the rear wheel.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I always remove the final drive unit when changing the rear tire - gives me access to clean and re-lube everything.

[John Schmidt]

A spare u-joint is one of the things I always carry with me when traveling on the bike, and spare wheel bearings. Stuff a dealer isn't likely to have in stock. As for removing the final drive....always done whenever I pull the wheel. I clean and grease the driveshaft plus the u-joint splines on it and the output shaft on the engine. I check the u-joint as best I can without removing it....so far, so good.

[KW]

Yes. . . . there were some apparent warning signs. In hindsight, I feel more stupid than normal. . .  I felt some "vibrations" under certain conditions when throttling up and suddenly letting off the gas. In fact; I first felt some virbrations on the way down, but noticed it more in about the middle of KY.

[Rocketman]

Warning signs tend to be noticed in only two circumstances.  First:  you've already seen the failure, so you're attuned to it.  Second:  hindsight.  You're currently in the second category.  Next time, you'll be in the first.

[Thunderbolt]

like when you go over a small hill and have a neutral or light throttle.  When I changed it with my spare, the original had just a slight amount of play, the replacement did not.  I still have it for a spare.  I changed teh dampers at the same time and all the play and vibration was gone afterwards.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I've been carrying a spare new u-joint with me for about 6 months as my lady has close to 108k on her. Last week I finally took her down and did the change along with the spline maint and rearend fuild. My orginal u-joint showed no sign of being worn out other than a little looser than the new one. I just got worried about it and changed it. I'll carry the old now for a spare. I learned a little trick about the boot on the swingarm end . First lube it some and wait till you get the bike off the jack and on the kickstand to try and install the boot. Much easier than trying to do it on the jack.

[KW]

Yep. . . . it was the u-joint. It was cracked, not completely broken (yet.) No other damage. I feel blessed because; 1) it didn't explode into pieces while doing 85, 2) the damage is limited, and 3) there was a Honda dealer within a 1/2 mile who stayed open and took my bike inside their garage.

The price from the dealer is as predicted; nearly $500.oo ($480.oo - Good call Sandy!) They also said eight of the header bolts and copper rings/seals between the pipe flange and head need replacing. . .  The header bolts are something I usually check EVERY spring, but for some reason, I didn't this year. If I get it done there, they're not charging any extra labor to replace the bolts & seals.

It sucks, but "it is what it is" and the trip to Deals gap (and area) was awsome. I'm taking the trailer down Friday to pick up the bike. It's almost exactly 200 miles (one way) from my driveway to the dealership parking lot.

Thanks - as always - for the help & information. As I've said many times, the tech board here at the VRCC is filled with some the best 'back yard gear heads' I've had the pleasure to "talk to."   If any of you ever make it to the Ionia Michigan area (we're famous for our prisons) I'll buy you lunch.

[Bob E.]

Yep. . . . it was the u-joint. It was cracked, not completely broken (yet.) No other damage. I feel blessed because; 1) it didn't explode into pieces while doing 85, 2) the damage is limited, and 3) there was a Honda dealer within a 1/2 mile who stayed open and took my bike inside their garage.

4) It happened on the way home at the end of the trip as opposed to on the way there at the beginning of the trip.  At least the entire trip wasn't ruined. 

[John Schmidt]

Last summer after Inzane I was within 8 miles of Ionia, on my way to Ludington to catch the ferry. Stopped in Lansing to see a former daughter-in-law and her two dogs, gave me a chance to get caught up on hugs and kisses from all three. Left there and headed west on I-96 I think it was. Maybe next year, if I make the same run to see my daughter in Green Bay.

[KW]

You were 7 miles from Ionia at exit #166, 9 miles from our house. I remember you telling me you were thinking about cutting through Michigan. Let me know next time my friend. . . .  You can stop over, have some lunch & spend time here. When you get ready to go, I'll ride with you up to Ludington. I'll show you a short cut through some decent north country back roads!! 

I sent you an e-mail. Did you get it?

[John Schmidt]

You were 7 miles from Ionia at exit #166, 9 miles from our house. I remember you telling me you were thinking about cutting through Michigan. Let me know next time my friend. . . .  You can stop over, have some lunch & spend time here. When you get ready to go, I'll ride with you up to Ludington. I'll show you a short cut through some decent north country back roads!! 

I sent you an e-mail. Did you get it?

Presenile dementia I guess.  Yes, I see some of the gang but not so much during the summer due to the heat and rain. I remember Red taking us through some Florida twisties, gave me a flat tire on one trip through there. The restaurant with the huge pancakes is no longer operating....Jeanettes was the name. Be sure and post to the Fla. board when you come down, now that you're retired you can stay longer. And yes....you're too young to retire.

[KW]

You know. . . . I picked up a nail on those same twisties. We rode over to that bike painters house (I don't rmember his name. Him and his buddy were both former NY city cops, if I recall right?)  Two bikes picking up nails on the same streach of road, at different times, makes me wonder if there's a local who doesn't like having bikes on "their" road? Who knows. . .? 

I know 'Red' ate up those curves on his 1800 wing and left us looking like we were on peddle bikes. I was WAY over classed. Debby was glad we were 'trail dogs' so I couldn't try and keep up. 

Too bad about that 'Mom & Pop' place. . . . .  I took a picture of the pamcakes; they were that impressive 

The game plan is to come down in January. . . As of right now, it seems like a 'go'. . . Do you remember where our house is in Florida?   

[KW]

Got my bike home Friday. . . .  I though some of the tech-heads would be interested in the results. The U-Joint HELD together, but I don't know how.  It was craked, gouged, and loosened up up something terrible, but didn't actually "break." There was NO other damage; everything looked & felt good. We basically disasembled the entire rearend and drivetrain and checked everything out. . . .  As to the "cause", I have no idea. As I mentioned; we were on our way home after riding in the mountains & twisties. Nothing unusual occured and I don't really ride my bike hard (just an rare occsional 'hammer' from a stop to impress the kids on their suicide machines in the next lane  )   Anyway, I thank Soichiro Honda for starting such an incredible company and building the WORLD'S GREATEST MOTORCYCLE (any disagrement?) I grew up around Harley's. . .  (and one Yamaha dirt bike) then another brother brought home a CB750 and everything changed! 

I'll post some pictures of the cracked u-joint if anyone wants to see them. Thanks for the help and direction on my problem.

[Ricky-D]

Got my bike home Friday. . . .  I though some of the tech-heads would be interested in the results. The U-Joint HELD together, but I don't know how.  It was craked, gouged, and loosened up up something terrible, but didn't actually "break." There was NO other damage; everything looked & felt good. We basically disasembled the entire rearend and drivetrain and checked everything out. . . .  As to the "cause", I have no idea. As I mentioned; we were on our way home after riding in the mountains & twisties. Nothing unusual occured and I don't really ride my bike hard (just an rare occsional 'hammer' from a stop to impress the kids on their suicide machines in the next lane  )   Anyway, I thank Soichiro Honda for starting such an incredible company and building the WORLD'S GREATEST MOTORCYCLE (any disagrement?) I grew up around Harley's. . .  (and one Yamaha dirt bike) then another brother brought home a CB750 and everything changed! 

I'll post some pictures of the cracked u-joint if anyone wants to see them. Thanks for the help and direction on my problem.

Do you remember the warning signs and how much earlier they were present.  A bad u-joint starts out very early broadcasting it's dilemma but we are not tuned in well enough to pick up on the frequency.

I know mine was in that bad enough shape also, I remarked to myself "how on earth did it keep holding together?"

***

[98valk]

Just got off the phone with the Service Manager. . .

BTW - It's a 99 Standard and was about to turn over 44,000. So, it's a low milliage Valk. I just changed BOTH tires within the last month and greased the spndles AND checked the bearings. Everything looked/felt good.

Did you loosen the 4 bolts on the rearend houding and let it align itself, then retighten them?
That makes U-joints last longer.....
Okay experts, flame away, but I know of 2 other people who do this on rear wheel removal besides me.     Daniel Meyer is one of them.

I know of a few others that believe like u do. I think they wrote the service manual.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I just bought and installed a new u-joint it was $ 92.00 from HDL.