Rear car tire rubbing

[valkcowboy]

A friend installed my new 205/60R/16 Yokohama Avid Envigor on my 2000 I/S. When I looked at it, it is touching the drive shaft. On the swing arm/brake side I can fit my fingers between it & the tire, he claims he installed it all properly, all else looks fine. Fender clearance seems fine, I had removed the nut cages previously. So what is the problem that I need to rework??

[Bone]

What air pressure are you using ? Some sidewalls flex more than others I had a credit card thickness of clearance. Was getting a slight rub I increased the pressure 4 lbs and it stopped. Changed tire brand when that one wore down had the same clearance but the rub stopped.

[BonS]

Did you try to slip a credit card between the swing arm and the tire? Mine's so close that that's the only way I could be convinced that it's not rubbing. And that's about all the clearance that I have on my I/S. There aren't really any adjustments for this.

What air pressure are you running?  Did you inspect and grease your rear end during the tire change? There is an easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel hub that would move the swing arm and tire closer.

[specialdose]

                 I have a GYTT on my 98 tourer, 205-60, 40psi. I can get 3 credit cards and my drivers license through. Plenty
              of clearance. The GYTT has a stiff side wall.
           

[valkcowboy]

Did you try to slip a credit card between the swing arm and the tire? Mine's so close that that's the only way I could be convinced that it's not rubbing. And that's about all the clearance that I have on my I/S. There aren't really any adjustments for this.

What air pressure are you running?  Did you inspect and grease your rear end during the tire change? There is an easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel hub that would move the swing arm and tire closer.

   
 
36 pounds right now have not rode it yet. A business card will not fit in the gap on the driveshaft side & yet as wide as my fingers on the brake side. Never remember any of my bike tires having that much of a clearance difference from one side to the other. Starting to wonder if he got the spacer on brake side improperly seated & has the tire set out of kilter? Guess when I get a chance I will have to jack it up & see if it spins correctly.. What a pain in the ass, starting to think a car tire is not worth the hassle..

[pancho]

Pay attention to what was said about the

" easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel"

 as stated, if it fell out while the wheel was off, (happens quite easily) it will move the wheel and tire closer to the drive side of the swingarm, and if ridden like that, it will destroy the wheel. I would pull the wheel off and check,, or at least check with the guy that installed the tire and make sure he is aware of that thrust washer and properly placed it.

[specialdose]

    
           I would be the last person to give mechanical advise. I assisted my neighbor who is the mechanic in the servicing and
        mounting my CT. I just went to the garage to check. I have a big hand and can get the palm of my hand in on the brake,
        left side. I got a actual measure of 3/32 0n the shaft side. I have had no problems. I will never go back to a MC tire. Wish
        I could be more help. I am certain some one on here will get you straight. Ditto what Pancho said about the plastic washer.

[Rio Wil]

Did you try to slip a credit card between the swing arm and the tire? Mine's so close that that's the only way I could be convinced that it's not rubbing. And that's about all the clearance that I have on my I/S. There aren't really any adjustments for this.

What air pressure are you running?  Did you inspect and grease your rear end during the tire change? There is an easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel hub that would move the swing arm and tire closer.

 
 
36 pounds right now have not rode it yet. A business card will not fit in the gap on the driveshaft side & yet as wide as my fingers on the brake side. Never remember any of my bike tires having that much of a clearance difference from one side to the other. Starting to wonder if he got the spacer on brake side improperly seated & has the tire set out of kilter? Guess when I get a chance I will have to jack it up & see if it spins correctly.. What a pain in the ass, starting to think a car tire is not worth the hassle..

The huge clearance on the brake rotor side is correct, try 42-44 psi in the tire and see if that will give you a credit card thickness of clearance with the swing arm......if so, you are good to go. The clearance on my 205-65 Pirelli P4 is 1/16 inch......42 psi.

P.S>.....the spacer being referred to below will not change the relative position of the wheel, but it is a necessary component for keeping the steel of the drive flange from rubbing directly on the aluminum bearing housing of the right rear wheel bearing...

[pancho]

P.S>.....the spacer being referred to below will not change the relative position of the wheel, but it is a necessary component for keeping the steel of the drive flange from rubbing directly on the aluminum bearing housing of the right rear wheel bearing...
[/quote]

You are correct Rio,,  I mis stated when I said that a missing thrust washer will move the wheel closer to the drive side of the swingarm valkcowboy. It Will NOT move the wheel if it is missing as it is not one of the components in the axle compression line,, but it will surely  cause the driven flange to eat up the wheel.  Sorry for the error,, just didn't think it through before I wrote. 

So,, that would not be a cause of  no clearance on the drive side of the swingarm.

[Ricky-D]

valkcowboy writes:

Starting to wonder if he got the spacer on brake side improperly seated & has the tire set out of kilter?

That simply cannot happen.

There have been a few instances where the long spacer inside has been left out upon reassembly

which become very evident when trying a test drive.

Due to the incongruities of the swingarm assembly process, small variances of the clearance between

the tire and the swing arm results sometimes in an interference when employing a car tire on the bike.

Most of the time when that happens it's result is a polishing of the tire surface and the area where it

rubs on the swingarm.

Only you can determine whether this interference is acceptable or not.

***

[valkcowboy]

Yep I knew this was going to be a pain in the ass... This is starting to feel like owning a Harley tinker tinker watch others ride & say wow doesn't my bike look nice sitting here!!! Really getting not to be worth it all...

[da prez]

   I have run into this twice now.  When you pull the rear-end to check the spacer (and torque the four rear-end bolts last , after the axle torque)  Look at the shaft area where the tire would rub. The fold of metal is pointing  , or folded up-ward.
  This can gather dirt or other debris that can cause it to start bending outwards and decreasing the clearence. One I ground off and the other I cleaned and J-B welded and tapped back into place and re-painted , They were out about a 1/4 inch.  This can cause a major clearence problem. If the tire rubs,the dirrection of rotation will pull the flap more into the tire.

                    Just my two cents (before taxes)    

                                          da prez

[fudgie]

How much is actually rubbing? Is it just the lettering or designs rubbing? If so they will wear down.

[valkcowboy]

You can't get a business card between the tire & drive shaft it is certainly touching.. Tired of jacking with this project not pulling the rear tire off again. Like it I said it looks great as a huge paper weight..

[da prez]

  valkcowboy , You are in the same time zone as me. Where are you located.  If you want help , just ask. If I am not close enough , someome else is. If you are looking to get rid of it , post it for sale. Whatever the issue , someone will help.

                            da prez

[Jess from VA]

Been running the same car tire on two '99 interstates for some time with no rubbing (but only credit card clearance).

BUT, last time I changed bikes (after 7 months), I negligently failed to check tire pressure and only by luck noticed I had a very, very slight rub on the right sidewall all the way round.  Pressure was around 30psi (crap!), back at my normal 40 psi and no more rub.  NOT checking tire pressure is a major mistake (FU), and there is no excuse for it.  My rub appeared to be from the drive shaft chrome cover edge and not the shaft itself.

But I am wondering if the original poster in this thread could do the fender washer mod to relieve his rub, if there is no other cause/issue discovered.  Not the same as the nut cage mod.

http://www.s2s-accessories.com/photo/fndrmod/index.htm

And this.  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56539.0.html

Da Prez's point is also well taken, that seam is prone to separation with age and water/rust exposure.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Been running the same car tire on two '99 interstates for some time with no rubbing (but only credit card clearance).

BUT, last time I changed bikes (after 7 months), I negligently failed to check tire pressure and only by luck noticed I had a very, very slight rub on the right sidewall all the way round.  Pressure was around 30psi (crap!), back at my normal 40 psi and no more rub.  NOT checking tire pressure is a major mistake (FU), and there is no excuse for it.  My rub appeared to be from the drive shaft chrome cover edge and not the shaft itself.

But I am wondering if the original poster in this thread could do the fender washer mod to relieve his rub, if there is no other cause/issue discovered.  Not the same as the nut cage mod.

http://www.s2s-accessories.com/photo/fndrmod/index.htm

And this.  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56539.0.html

Da Prez's point is also well taken, that seam is prone to separation with age and water/rust exposure.

Don't beleive the fender washer mod will do anything for the driveshaft side of swingarm rubbing. I've had 2 Valkyries with car tires and never had an issue with the driveshaft rubbing. He's been given some good advice here and just needs to follow it now (even help was offered). Don't see it being earth shattering enough to throw in a towel.

[R J]

The 1st thing I would do is jack the air pressure up to 40 and see if that helps.

You'll be surprised to see the sidewall move away from the drive shaft as you are airing it up.

[old2soon]

I'm on my 3d C/T and my 2nd 205-65-16. 3 credit card THICKNESSES on the skinny side. NEVER had any of my 3 C/T rub. Hope you find out WHAT is causing yer situation. RIDE SAFE.

[valkcowboy]

Ok load of new updates on tire issue.. Yes Jess you hit it on the head.. #1. I checked the tire pressure & he had only 28 pounds in it. #2. Talked to the tire installer ( of 15 years ) he said the thrust washer did not fall out. #3. Looked at the shaft separation seam all is good there.  So I put 40 pounds of air in the tire. The clearance on brake side is a full 1 1/4".. The drive shaft side is 1.58mm = to 0.062" or about 1/16" ( = to just over 2 credit cards gap )... Called a friend & fellow owner of 3 Valks that lives out of state & he told me his car tires that he has been running has clearance just over the thickness of a piece of paper much less that what I have on mine & has never had any issues.. Still looks close to me..LOL So with the info from the installer, from all of you on the forum, from my friend over the phone, & the measurements I have checked on the bike. I guess I just need to ride the piss out of it as always.. LOL.. Southeast Oklahoma still needs a good all around knowledgeable bike shop that can be trusted... Thanks to everyone that has responded to my post as always you guys are some of the best..

[Jess from VA]

Yes, you wonder with only the proverbial credit card clearance, what will happen in hard downhill cornering with sidewall flex?  The answer is no rubs at all if you get the credit card clearance to start with.  Of course, no one can speak for all available 205 car tires, but aside from run flats with thicker sidewalls, I have not heard about any particular tire being fatter or prone to rub.

Just make sure to keep pressure up and that you go to all metal valve stems.

BTW, the first time I had a car tire installed I specifically told the guy to put in 40.  On the way home (besides being the first time I ever rode a CT) it was all over the road and squishy feeling in back and I thought, oh crap what have I done???  First thing I checked was pressure and it was 18lbs.  Never trust anyone else to do anything right* (unless you are standing behind them).... at least when your life may depend on it.

*Like... hey, check out my new pistol, it's not loaded.   All firearms ARE loaded until you see they are not loaded.

[valkcowboy]

Yes, you wonder with only the proverbial credit card clearance, what will happen in hard downhill cornering with sidewall flex?  The answer is no rubs at all if you get the credit card clearance to start with.  Of course, no one can speak for all available 205 car tires, but aside from run flats with thicker sidewalls, I have not heard about any particular tire being fatter or prone to rub.

Just make sure to keep pressure up and that you go to all metal valve stems.

BTW, the first time I had a car tire installed I specifically told the guy to put in 40.  On the way home (besides being the first time I ever rode a CT) it was all over the road and squishy feeling in back and I thought, oh crap what have I done???  First thing I checked was pressure and it was 18lbs.  Never trust anyone else to do anything right* (unless you are standing behind them).... at least when your life may depend on it.

*Like... hey, check out my new pistol, it's not loaded.   All firearms ARE loaded until you see they are not loaded.

So very true Jess it is hard to find trustworthy people these days. I normally do all the work on my bike but needing both tires changed I let those with all the right lifts to do it all at once...LOL

[old2soon]

And under NO circumstances TRUST any tire gage til it's checked against a master or a known good one!  DO NOT ask HOW I know that!  JUST cause they have a decent brand name-check the gage!  Glad ya got er figured out.  NOW-go ride er like you stole it!  RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

I also try to do all my own work Cowboy, but sometimes need a tire quick time for a trip, wear it around my waist on a 15-20 mile ride to my dealer (which gets hilarious looks, esp a big 205 CT*), and ante up the money for instant gratification.  

*At a light, a lady rolls down the window and asks about the tire.  Well, you see, motorcycle riding is a dangerous business, and this is a new safety practice.  If I get knocked off my bike, I just roll to safety.    She might have gone for it if I wasn't LMAO telling the story.

I can still get a front or rear tire around my waist, many on here cannot (and there's nothing wrong with that).    

[valkcowboy]

And under NO circumstances TRUST any tire gage til it's checked against a master or a known good one!  DO NOT ask HOW I know that!  JUST cause they have a decent brand name-check the gage!  Glad ya got er figured out.  NOW-go ride er like you stole it!  RIDE SAFE.

Very true old2soon that is why I came & posted where the experts are, & not to a dealer to hear how sinful I was being by doing such things to a bike...LOL

[fudgie]

How do you check the gauge with another gauge? How do you know which one is right? 

[Bighead]

Yep I knew this was going to be a pain in the ass... This is starting to feel like owning a Harley tinker tinker watch others ride & say wow doesn't my bike look nice sitting here!!! Really getting not to be worth it all...

I have your solution put the correct Motorcycle tire on it and ride it like you stole it
Or if you must run DARKSIDE put a car tire that others run with no problems just sayin'

[R J]

Fudgie ole buddy.

The way I have checked mine in the past was at Sturgis.

There was a tire manufacture set up on the 1st street North of the Main Holler.

They had a panel set up with a valve core setup.

The Panel had a pre-dialed in pressure on the guage on this panel and you pressed your tester on the valve stem, you just compared your testers pressure.   You had to do a little math in your head to see how far off your guage is if it is off.     My old guage read 2#'s light.     So, I just added another 2#'s to the tire and was good to go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPljSXxGfs

Google this phase and have an enjoyable reading session.

'accurate tire pressure guage motorcycle'

I have always used Schroeder, think that is the correct spelling without going to the garage to check.     It is a round dial tester, also have a pencil tester of the same brand.   This was the typical tester used by employees at all gas stations back in the day when they checked your oil and tire pressure on each fill up.   Ya, this is probably way before your time, or maybe even before you were a gleam in daddy's eye, cause I was just a little pup.

If you have a major tire supplier in town, they might have a tester.   Worth a question to ask them.

Hope this answers your question buddy.     Behave yourself over the Holiday's.    Also hope ya don't have any gorey accidents to cover.   I always hated the Holiday's for accidents.      It kept us busy for a few hours on each one, and most were caused by Driver's trying to get too many miles in on a Holiday weekend.

[old2soon]

How do you check the gauge with another gauge? How do you know which one is right? 

     Shop that does my cage repair work has a master-some call it a standard-gage. The gage that's on the M/C is a dial gage which I had checked against the master gage. Then I checked the 2 battery powered digital gages against the dial gage. The digitals were spot on with my checked gage. Reason I brought this up was a Slime digital showed 34 P S I. AFTER I took out the center-ONLY-on my General D/S on the Phatt Ghurl I was like-W T F??   What the gage showed as 34 P S I was ACTUALLY 53 P S I!   $12 gage took out a $90.00 tire. My cage tires had the overpressure situation but being as I was not using the cage THAT much-caught it before I ruined 4 tires.   Either overpressure or underpressure WILL do in ANY tire. Hi/Lo recommendations are usually on the sidewall. BUT kinda difficult at best to overload a car tire on a motorcycle. NOT saying it CAN'T be done-just difficult at best. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

I got a new Accutire electronic gauge (they read to the half pound), and used it to to set my CT to 40lbs.  Then I checked the tire again with a half dozen stick/pencil gauges another older electronic gauge and two better analog dial gauges.  Three of the stick/pencil gauges were off enough to toss.  Since all my other gauges were good, I went back and tossed all my stick gauges.  Done.  

Do not leave battery operated gauges out in the cold, batteries do not like cold and die sooner.

http://www.accutiregauge.com/

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aaccutire%20gauge

[R J]

I got a new Accutire electronic gauge (they read to the half pound), and used it to to set my CT to 40lbs.  Then I checked the tire again with a half dozen stick/pencil gauges another older electronic gauge and two better analog dial gauges.  Three of the stick/pencil gauges were off enough to toss.  Since all my other gauges were good, I went back and tossed all my stick gauges.  Done.  

Do not leave battery operated gauges out in the cold, batteries do not like cold and die sooner.

http://www.accutiregauge.com/

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aaccutire%20gauge

You do realize that everytime you stick a tester on that stem it lets air out..

If ya stick it enough times you can and will lose a # or 2.

[Jess from VA]

Yes, I'm aware.  But if you're good at it, you don't lose much.  And the solid metal Anchor stems I have do not flex one iota, even one handed. 

The pencil gauges were 4-8lbs off.... trash.

The good gauges were all within a pound.  That'll do.

[Mondo Limbo]

" easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel"

Now you got me paranoid.  Just had my rear tire replaced at a non Honda shop.  Wouldn't you hear something, grinding, if the thrust washer was left off and it started tearing up the wheel?

[mustang071965]

mine did the same thing. after checking the tire and swing arm and tire with a feeler gauge. i had 3/8 in distance there. i looked at the rub mark on the tire. it was hight right where the tread meets the sidewall. i removed the nut cage also before installing the tire. what i found was the square nut there was to thick. and still allowed the tire to lightly rub . even with the shocks on 4 or 5 with the wife on. i removed the nut and ground it down to half its thickness. this allowed for a 5/16 to almost 3/8 in space between the tire when it traveled up. with half the thickness of the nut there it is more then enough to hold the fender bolt tight. no more rubbing on tire. only had to do the nut on the passenger side. the one on the drivers side already had plenty of room between the tire and the nut.

[BonS]

" easy-to-lose clear plastic washer that, when missing, can cause catastrophic wear of the rear wheel"

Now you got me paranoid.  Just had my rear tire replaced at a non Honda shop.  Wouldn't you hear something, grinding, if the thrust washer was left off and it started tearing up the wheel?

This link is a pretty good, and graphic, discussion of the consequences.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,53010.0.html

[DarkSideR]

You got off easy. The small custom HD shop that mounted my Car Tire, mounted it backwards, then wanted to charge me for the 2nd mounting.

[Gryphon]

Call me paranoid, but I bring in the tire and the wheel with the old tire on it to the shop.  I put the rotation direction on both sides of the wheel with a sharpie.  Then I check when I pick it up.  I have a lift, so I can remove and install the wheels myself, but for $20, I let them mount and balance them.

[Pappy!]

This should help should you decide to modify.....

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,65849.0.html