Looking for Darkside experiences

[Icelander]

I put the CT on my bike Last weekend and have only about an hour's worth of riding experience on it so far.

I'd like to hear back from others that have gone darkside as I've never read anything about low speed handling.

My experience so far has been that it's fantastic on the road and I've noticed that my rear braking is much more effective. The ride is smooth and very enjoyable. I have noticed however that my bike tends to get a mind of her own when I'm rolling up to a stop light on lumpy pavement. At about 5-20 mph, if the road surface under the rear tire is leaning left, I get some fairly strong input from the bike to turn left. Same to the right. I'm running 40psi on an Ohtsu (formerly Falken) tire. I can't remember the tire model but it's the one that others on this board have used and liked.

Do other CT riders have this issue? It's not so bad as to make me want to swap back, but it does take a little getting used to.

Icelander

[Jess from VA]

There is a bit of a learning curve on CTs.  The flat bottom (no matter how rounded the edges) will push you around a bit, esp in slow speeds on uneven surfaces, and faster long leans (requiring a bit of countersteer; pull on one bar, push on the other).  It is not but a foot pound or two of extra pressure on the bars, it is not fatiguing or tiring, just different than what you are used to.

The slow speed stuff gives you the occasional push, or hop, or wobble (bike tires will do the same, but CTs make it a bit more pronounced).  The bigger footprint CT will really wobble the bike at slow speed when your tire runs over only half of a manhole cover or pothole or a ridge in the road (so try to miss them entirely).  As a rookie CT rider, they really get your attention, but you are not going to fall off or fall over.  After a while, you just get used to it and ignore it. I personally think the car tire helps in making nice smooth straight-ahead stops over a bike tire.

I still remember, being a bit shocked by a few early wobbles, and instantly looking down and back for what I just ran over..... don't do it, keep your eyes on the road (and the car stopping ahead of you).  Whatever you ran over is already behind you, no need to look.

And I think most CTs get more scuffed in/worn for motorcycle use after several thousand (not hundred) miles.  But maybe it is your experience increase by then, but maybe both.  

Many start at 40 psi, then drop 10 after awhile and go back up in 2-pound increments tying to find their own sweet spot.  On my GATTs, I like 40psi all the time and hate 30 (feels sluggish, wobbly and flat).

[Icelander]

Thanks for providing feedback. I've experienced all you say and agree that looking back is not an option.

I'm still in that shocked period and figure I'll get used to it. I put a new wheel on with the tire and replaced all the bearings since I didn't know the history of the old ones. The drive shaft, pinion cup, and wheel flanges all looked great so I cleaned them, re-greased them and put it all back together.

The ride is beautiful with only the low speed wobbles on uneven pavement. I don't really notice the added steering input at higher speed but I haven't done much riding yet.

[F6BANGER]

Dont forget to pull your rear wheel off every 10k miles or so to do preventive maintenance......

[old2soon]

There was NOT much of a "learning curve" I M H O going to the D/S. 10 maybe 15 miles and I wuz there. Some of the freshly ground highway surfaces prove "interesting" at slower speeds but not a "problem". My "comfort" level running D/S is fine. IF there is "extra" effort going into the twisties it is NOT evident to me. I've been "surprised" more than once about how far I'm leaned over when the pavement tries to remove my boot from the foot peg or hard parts make noise.  I've ridden numerous times in the rain and far as I'm concerned you can NOT get me back on a M/C specific tire on the rear.  Long as I own THIS Phatt Ghurl she will be D/S!  RIDE SAFE.

[jdp]

I've tried maybe about 5 different car tires and all of them were ok at higher speeds but low speeds forget it, the bike seems to follow every groove,crack in the road, I went back to a motorcycle tire, I even tried that taxi tire, but it's up to you, as I see it the only reason for going to the car tie is to save a couple of bucks, to me it was not worth it for the slow speed wobble, enjoy and keep on riding.

[BobB]

This is great information, thanks.  I just mounted a CT on my Tourer for the first time after riding the Valk for seven years with a MT.  No riding as yet, -8^o outside this morning.  So far I've noticed the increased outside diameter that has affected how the center stand works.  The rear tire is no longer lifted off the ground.  I'm looking forward to the improved ride comfort with the lower tire pressure, dropping from 44 to 35 PSI.

[Skinhead]

My rear MC tire wore out on me on the way home from Maine to Michigan.  I made it as far as Pittsburgh and was down to the steel belt.  Sunday no MC stores open.   I bought and mounted a Bridgestone Potenza and set off from the burgh to Motown.  I knew I loved the Darkside by the time I hit Ohio.  Low speed road irregularities are probably the biggest difference, but you get used to it.  Gravel/dirt/grass is also interesting.

[Hook#3287]

Dark side on the beach in Daytona.  Worked very well there.



My buddy had a much harder time of it on his HD w/M/T

[Brian]

Icelander,

Last spring I went D/S going with the General Altimax HP 205/60. At first I hated it and was experimenting with air pressure. My mistake was going up with it till I met another D/S'er running the same tire. He suggested I try 28 to 32 as that is what he was running even two up. I lowered the pressure the next day from 48 down to 30. Now I don't even think about. The higher pressure made the tire more squirrelly on uneven pavement and gravel. I am now a believer. Over 5,000miles on this tire and it still looks brand new.

Good luck.

[Icelander]

Thanks for that feedback! I'm hoping I can ride all this week to work and back. I'll experiment with pressure and see what feels right.

Icelander

[Led]

The first thing I noticed, was instead of the bike "flowing" through tight turns at some speed with the M/C tire.....

The car tire wanted to make the bike continue straight ahead. I had to put some "input" into the handlebars to get it to turn.  But this was when I had first installed the C/T.
Things have gotten much better, now that I know the different handling characteristics. (more lean into the corners)

I still like the C/T pumped up to 40 pounds or more......I believe I am running 42 pounds right now.  I kept going UP in pressure until I was comfortable. I never had thought of going lower in pressure at all.....maybe now that I have gotten used to it, I will do more experimenting.......

[Icelander]

Well, never got a "roud tuit" to dropping the air pressure but the ride home last night from my buddy's place has me seriously considering dropping the pressure.

The city is doing some massive road construction and there are patches and irregularities all over the road. I drove down it at about 9:30 last night and felt like I was back on my old BMX bike. (Seriously thought about standing on the pegs just to eliminate some of the shock to my torso and arms.)

Guess I'll be dropping the pressure this weekend to see how that works.

[Jess from VA]

Just remember that riding down a road full of potholes and repairs is not particularly nice on a bike tire either.

[specialdose]

 I am running  a GYTT, 40psi per Jess from Va . I have 9k on mine since install. Experienced the gyro effect first couple hundred miles, don't even pay attention to it anymore. Slow speeds in a parking lot it may get a little henky. Nothing that is going to throw you off. We have miles and miles of tar snakes in Atlanta burbs. They do not have any effect on mine. Rain and panic stopping no comparison to the E3's that were on her. I really like the way the Cobra up front works with the CT.

[old2soon]

The GENERAL sweet spot for inflation of a D/S appears to be mid 20s P S I to mid 30s P S I. Remember I am saying GENERAL. Nothing is carved in granite-well you do NEED some air pressure in the tire-werx much betta that away!  While we all ride motorcycles we all ride differently.  I enjoy carving curves but I don't carve as intensely as some other folks do. When I'm going from point A to point B I've had more than one person tell me I go too fast!  Find YOUR sweet spot in the P S I range that WORKS for you.  Find the sweet spot on the roads you travel MOST. Make SURE/CERTAIN/WITH OUT A DOUBT you have a pressure gage that is reading CORRECTLY.  Please DO NOT ask!  Another thing I've found out about D/S is whether I ride solo 2 up or loaded down for a trip or pulling a trailer or carving curves-I DO NOT have to change pressure for any of the mentioned riding regimes!  Hope this helps. RIDE SAFE.

[Icelander]

Thanks O2S! The road was just patched, re-patched, & patched again for about a half mile. In the dark, it was impossible to see all the variations and it really pitched the bike around. I'll definitely adjust the pressure and see how that changes the handling. Again, I want to state that it's not so bad that I would want to change back to an MC but it does take some getting used to.

I appreciate all the feedback.

Icelander

[Wewaman]

If you read my post Double Darkside... uh oh
you will see why I'm never going back to a motorcycle tire on the rear.
I'm sold on them and you will be too once you re-train yourself.  Good luck and keep adjusting you'll know when you're there.

Wewaman

[BobB]

It almost in the 60's today and I got out there for the first time with the Austone TT on the rear.  I took it easy as there is a lot of sand on the road surfaces, but I believe I'll enjoy the Dark Side.  I did not experience and negative handling traits.  Expect the learning curve to be a short one...

I really like to extra tire diameter, 3000 RPM now yields 70 MPH indicated.  I was concerned that I might not get both feet flat on the ground but that is not a problem.

[jwinker]

My Valk came with a CT on the rear and I barely noticed it during regular riding. The bike itself was so much different than my Shadow 750, it was like learning a new bike - because it was a new bike!

I have noticed some very low-speed maneuvering changes, particularly in our parking garage. When I pull out of my parking spot, I do an immediate 180* left turn near-locked. The Valk does this almost vertical while the Shadow (MC tire) allowed me to lean quite a bit to make the corner. It does make the Valkyrie feel a little awkward at first. But...I can't say this is the rear tire, or the bike itself.

[Leatherman]

For me it all came down to tire pressure. When I got the pressure too high, low speed handling got worse, on uneven surfaces. I found the sweet spot to be 32 to 34 PSI but that will vary with tire brands and the total load you're carrying on the bike. High speed handling improved dramatically for me, as did rear wheel braking and taking the twisties at speed, but inflation pressure was the key.

[Icelander]

Finally dropped it to 32 psi and took a long ride to Eastern Washington. The ride is much improved tho I feel a bit of wobble in the rear when I hit a dip in the road while leaning into a turn.

They've been moving the lanes around a bit on Hwy 2 and at one point I found myself in a trough that used to be a solid paint line. She kinda wobbled between the sides on that and if I let it go it would have become a serious situation, but a firm hand on the tiller and she hopped up out  and was right as rain.

I may add a little back in to see if I can eliminate the wobble without returning to the way it was before.

[Jess from VA]

See, this is why I don't like low pressure.  

Low pressure may be nicer on slow speed parking lot stuff and 25mph on crappy city streets, but low pressure rear end wallowing (rocking side to side) at higher speeds and in corners is far worse.  Higher pressure may make it a bit more wobbly at slow speed (but you will not fall of), but in performance riding where it counts, higher pressure gives great stability and consistent handling.

Make your pressure choice for where it really counts.  Like leaned over at 70 through a long sweeper, and switchbacks with changing elevations.

[Pappy!]

Am also of the opinion that if you drop your rear tire pressure some of that low speed stuff will go away because you are reducing the stiffness of the sidewalls.
I run my Vredestein in the low 30s but have run it in the high 20s as well and it seems to like those pressures better than the higher numbers.
The more curved the running surface of the car tire as well as a good rounded transition from running surface to sidewall the better the car tire does on a bike.
My first car tire was a Toyo Proxes and it was a beast compared to the one currently on mine. Toyo had flat running surface and squared off edges.

[Valkorado]

See, this is why I don't like low pressure.  

Low pressure may be nicer on slow speed parking lot stuff and 25mph on crappy city streets, but low pressure rear end wallowing (rocking side to side) at higher speeds and in corners is far worse.  Higher pressure may make it a bit more wobbly at slow speed (but you will not fall of), but in performance riding where it counts, higher pressure gives great stability and consistent handling.

Make your pressure choice for where it really counts.  Like leaned over at 70 through a long sweeper, and switchbacks with changing elevations.

+1.  My Austone feels really good at 40-42 psi depending on load.  That tire has no low speed handling issues that would call for a lower pressure.

[Jess from VA]

To be fair, this CT pressure thing is probably really related to (and affected by) your regional geography, and we discuss it from all parts of the country without thinking about it.  If you live and ride in mostly flat lands and straight roads, you may very well be happy with a lower pressure than I would like in mostly hilly to mountain riding with lots of curves everywhere.  And the same may be said for those whose riding is mostly sedate cruising, versus those who prefer to find the most challenging roads available and go as fast as we can get away with (as often as possible). 

Still, if you go through a fast sweeper at 55-65 and hit a dip, and the rear end wallows side to side scarily, I'd go home and add some air so that didn't happen anymore (and live with any slow speed wobbles you think it created).  Mishaps at 25-30 and under are less likely and more acceptable, than mishaps at 50 and over.  Not that there should be any mishaps. 

[0leman]

I have had two CT tires.  Michelin HydroEdge and now a Kumho Solus.  Both tires ran at 30 lbs on my I/S.   The I find the Kumho lays over easier in the curves.  So far only have 7K miles on it, but do like it better than the  HydroEdge. 

I ride mostly flat county roads the time of year due to frost/ice/snow in the high country.  Warmer periods, I ride a lot of mountain roads (curves).   I don't notice any problems with hitting dips/rough spots on the curves at this pressure.   Yes, there is some movement when I hit these bad spots, but I believe that a MC tire would have the same issue.

[Willow]

To be fair, this CT pressure thing is probably really related to (and affected by) your regional geography, and we discuss it from all parts of the country without thinking about it.  If you live and ride in mostly flat lands and straight roads, you may very well be happy with a lower pressure than I would like in mostly hilly to mountain riding with lots of curves everywhere.  ...

I'm not certain of that, Jess.  I prefer something very close to forty in the Falken.  I live in Kansas.  We do have clover leafs, you know.   

[Jess from VA]

Carl, I run 40psi all the time, and I would do so no matter where I lived (with my tires).  I suppose there may be certain tires that are OK at lower pressure, I can only speak to my tires.

I ran 30psi (in my tire) and found it downright scary on the freeway.  

Yet people report running high 20s to law 30s and being happy with it.  

Geography and riding style were the only other variables I could think of.

Maybe it's just the tires.

Maybe some people like a squishy wallowing rear end.  (talking tires here people)  

[f6 white buffalo]

my experience :    after about a year of reading other riders thoughts about going DS I was completely convinced to follow suit.   I was almost getting ready to pull the trigger on outfitting my 1998 F6  with 1 of the more commonly used models of CT . My brother had seen my bike and asked me to find him one so when  hunted 1 down for him I thought he would like , we went , looked, rode and purchased the exact same bike as mine ...It had a CT on the back. I was ecstatic that I was going to get some pre  CT purchase miles on his new Valk . I was shocked at how dangerous it felt to ride with the CT ....the amount of struggle to control the bike was disappointing to me . the intense front tire wobble when taking your hands off the bars was down right deadly . I could ride my MT equipped Valk hands free for ever without any fear of wobble.....can anyone advise as to why I hear so many positive reviews of going DS and my experience was so bad ...rear tire was Bridgestone  CT with 25 lbs ..thanks

[Valkorado]

my experience :    after about a year of reading other riders thoughts about going DS I was completely convinced to follow suit.   I was almost getting ready to pull the trigger on outfitting my 1998 F6  with 1 of the more commonly used models of CT . My brother had seen my bike and asked me to find him one so when  hunted 1 down for him I thought he would like , we went , looked, rode and purchased the exact same bike as mine ...It had a CT on the back. I was ecstatic that I was going to get some pre  CT purchase miles on his new Valk . I was shocked at how dangerous it felt to ride with the CT ....the amount of struggle to control the bike was disappointing to me . the intense front tire wobble when taking your hands off the bars was down right deadly . I could ride my MT equipped Valk hands free for ever without any fear of wobble.....can anyone advise as to why I hear so many positive reviews of going DS and my experience was so bad ...rear tire was Bridgestone  CT with 25 lbs ..thanks

Well, your psi was way low, IMHO.  Also likely a poor tire choice.  I'm currently double dark, and I am amazed how rock solid the bike feels.  I took the bike out today and was using cruise and riding hands free.  Like riding on rails.  On a straightaway, I could ride hands free indefinitely.  But I won't.  

[old2soon]

my experience :    after about a year of reading other riders thoughts about going DS I was completely convinced to follow suit.   I was almost getting ready to pull the trigger on outfitting my 1998 F6  with 1 of the more commonly used models of CT . My brother had seen my bike and asked me to find him one so when  hunted 1 down for him I thought he would like , we went , looked, rode and purchased the exact same bike as mine ...It had a CT on the back. I was ecstatic that I was going to get some pre  CT purchase miles on his new Valk . I was shocked at how dangerous it felt to ride with the CT ....the amount of struggle to control the bike was disappointing to me . the intense front tire wobble when taking your hands off the bars was down right deadly . I could ride my MT equipped Valk hands free for ever without any fear of wobble.....can anyone advise as to why I hear so many positive reviews of going DS and my experience was so bad ...rear tire was Bridgestone  CT with 25 lbs ..thanks

      NOT familiar with either of the bikes you ride the front wobble-I M H O-COULD be bad shock bushings combined with the-again I M H O-lower tire pressure. These Valkyries show a very bad form with bad shock bushings. RIDE SAFE.

[WintrSol]

my experience :    after about a year of reading other riders thoughts about going DS I was completely convinced to follow suit.   I was almost getting ready to pull the trigger on outfitting my 1998 F6  with 1 of the more commonly used models of CT . My brother had seen my bike and asked me to find him one so when  hunted 1 down for him I thought he would like , we went , looked, rode and purchased the exact same bike as mine ...It had a CT on the back. I was ecstatic that I was going to get some pre  CT purchase miles on his new Valk . I was shocked at how dangerous it felt to ride with the CT ....the amount of struggle to control the bike was disappointing to me . the intense front tire wobble when taking your hands off the bars was down right deadly . I could ride my MT equipped Valk hands free for ever without any fear of wobble.....can anyone advise as to why I hear so many positive reviews of going DS and my experience was so bad ...rear tire was Bridgestone  CT with 25 lbs ..thanks

I had the same experience - my Tourer came with a Pontenza on the back, Shinko MC on the front. Maybe it's because I only weigh about 170, and am 5'7", but I found it always a struggle, even on the easier curves of I270, to hold a turn. And highly crowned roads were very disquieting, especially when I crossed from one side of the crown to the other. I've since replaced both tires, Metzeler on the rear, and a Dunlop Elite on the front (the Shinko was just bad, causing headshake). It rides like a motorcycle now!

[JC]

I ran my Potenza at 37psi and it handled well until at about 25K it developed a slow speed (20-25mph) shake/shimmy. Having run two sets of Potenzas on my Accord I also noticed the same at about 25K with both sets, which might point to a design issue, or it could be just me.

Now on the Austone and it was almost like going back to a MT where handling is concerned. I started out at 35psi but noticed a high speed wobble that went away when I upped the psi to 42. Very happy with it now, and I like the drop in RPM as well.

[Bambam650]

This is all great information.  I've been doing a lot of research lately on going to a CT for my '97 Standard.  I recently took a trip from Cincinnati to Key West and back.  I was a little worried about my front tire making it, but the rear looked fine.  Long story short, by the time I got to Miami the rear was toast.  Had to get new MT tires put on in Miami which cost me an arm and a leg.  The high cruising speed (typically 80 - 85) and the extra weight of the luggage really chewed up my rear tire fast.  So my next rear is going to be a CT.  I'm tired of having to worry if my tires are going to last on a long trip.  It's probably going be a Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 ZP in either a 195/55R16 or a 205/60R16, although I don't think the 205 is available anymore in the zero pressure (ZP) version.  At least I haven't been able to find it online.  Any comments on this tire choice?

[wct69]

I have had no luck finding the Alpin with a ZP rating in a 205.
It looks like Michelin in ending  production on this size.
If anyone locates one please let me know.
Would the narrower version, the 195, help eliminate some of the wobble issues?

[Led]

The "speed rating" of the tire will also make a difference. Mine is an "H" rated tire.....and a lot of Folks may be using an "S" rated tire. The higher the speed rating, the stiffer the sidewalls are.......

Do NOT ask me which may be better! I have no idea.....but......just saying..........

I used to sell tires for cars, so I am up on the "speed rating" thing.  But for a Motorcycle?????

[f6 white buffalo]

Hello potential darksiders ......I posted here a few weeks back that I was 100 % ready to pull the trigger on going darkside until I rode a f6 with a bridgestone 205 on it ...the bike was unridable for many reasons.I am now back to say I installed a austone on my rear of my 1998 F6 and it performed perfectly @ 42 psi ....cornering , stopping, accelerating , stability , absorbing and almost eliminating uneven surfaces. I did not experience any of the things some have going darkside. I did lose it  once high side by panicking a bit and hitting the brake too much. I should have leaned her harder and rode through it ...the ability to lean and carve has been greatly increased . and the feeling of having to get from edge to edge was non existent . The tire was almost identical to a MT....Im done with rear MT ...just as long as they keep making Austone tires of this size ....I would stock up but the rubber will degrade by the time Im done wearing this sucker out ...Thank you to everyone who shared there experiences and knowledge .Im beyond ecstatic...this tire turned my Vlk into an entirely new experience...looking forward to playing around with the tight handling scenarios , which is where this bike really shines...in the lean ....stay frosty ..

[Yfx4]

I have a GYTT on my VTX1800R and did not have to alter the cage, just flipped the exhaust bolts. I love the ride at 36psi.

Looking at going DS on the Valk IS. Do they still make the Austone? With the rear seat and bags/trunk is the rear end going to be stout enough without the cage? Which tires are least likely to need modifications?