LiFe Battery

[gordonv]

I decided on spending the big money and buying a new battery, and went with the LiFe (lithium Iron) from Shorai. I also bought the proper charger to go along with it.

After reading all the documentation that came along with the battery and charger, I'm a little disappointed that this information was not found on their web site. It was, but within the posted forms online.

Taken from the installation guide.

CHARGE MAINTENANCE: LFX™ batteries should be recharged whenever voltage drops to 13.1 volts, or sooner. If you have a vintage, custom, or off‐road vehicle which has NO draw on the battery when key is OFF, then you should only need to charge your LFX™ battery once a year. However, most modern street bikes have a draw even when key is off, to support clock, computer, alarms, or other devices. This draw will eventually drain the battery, which is damaging and could void your warranty. So if you are not riding twice a month, then you should charge the battery every few weeks.  ... Alternatively, you may disconnect the negative cable from the battery for storage, and charge once per year in that case.

LONG TERM STORAGE: Cool storage is good for any type of battery. You may remove the battery from vehicle for summer storage and place in a cool, dry location – with terminals taped to avoid short circuit (ideal is about 34F/1C, so a refrigerator is great).

Would I buy another? I'll have to see how long and well this one behaves. I bought the 36Ah 540 CCA instead of the stock size 24Ah 405 CCA.

I'm going to add a power shutoff, since I don't ride as often as I would like, so there will be no drain on the battery from the clock/radio. I could have done this with a regular lead acid battery, for a lot less $ than the LiFe. But I did shed another 12lbs weight from my bike.

[Ricky-D]

I have the impression that lithium ion batteries have an unusual characteristic

where the longest life will be achieved by using the battery to a point, that it is

very low (like 10% of charge) and then recharging it. Completely opposite

from a lead acid battery.  The constant use charge/discharge cycle from

employing the lithium ion battery, such as you on your bike is said to be

detrimental to the life of the battery as well as the storage capacity.  Compare

it to a battery in your smart phone, tablet, or laptop. They all exhibit these

identical characteristics.

***

[gordonv]

R-D, that is my understanding also. But as I mentioned, these are Iron not Ion batteries. I wonder if they behave a little differently. It has a pro rated 3 yr warranty.

Of course, it specifies not dropping below 13.1v, this is not the same as the Ah stored in the battery.

Since I have a GW which has a constant draw, I'll see how long the battery lasts in storage. I have the battery bug attached, so will monitor the V and the battery life over the next few months, while it's stored and started to be ridden more often.

[BonS]

Different chemistries. Nickel-Cadmium (NiCd) and Nickel-Metal (NiMh) batteries have "memories" but lithium-Iron (LiFe), Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) and Lithium-ion (Li-ion) do not. They don't mind being kept in a partially discharged state or being lightly cycled without deep cycles. That said, lithium-* cannot tolerate being completely discharged as they will not recover - as in dead. Manufacturers routinely pre-charge the batteries to 40% for shipping and storage. This is the safest level for handling, storage and accidents. Lithium batteries have miniscule parasitic drains so they can simply sit on a shelf without worry. As the battery supplier said "(sic) storage in a cool location is best" because lower temperatures slow down all chemistry which slows aging. Batteries don't take well to being frozen though, but that's hard to do as it requires extremely low temperatures around -70 Fahrenheit.

The output voltage of lithium batteries in general is very flat. It drops way less than lead acid chemistries. I looked for a discharge/voltage curve for LiFe specifically but haven't found one as yet. What this means is that it's hard to tell when a lithium battery is almost fully discharged (and it's distructive) so don't let it sit around draining as you might lose your investment.

[Hef]

I have had the same Sears Die Hard battery in my 2000 Standard for 7 years. Don't ever remember putting a charger on it.

[gordonv]

"(sic) storage in a cool location is best"

Thanks for the info, nice to understand what I have.

I've seen this "(sic)" posted before. What does that mean?


Hef, outside of replacing my battery and RR in my Shadow 1100, I've purchased maybe one other new battery in my life, for one of my vehicles. That's now 3, 2 of which where for M/C.  None had failed, but where becoming suspect, and if lights (or etc) where left on for as little as a few minutes, I wouldn't be able to start. One reason I carry jumper cables.

[BonS]

"(sic) storage in a cool location is best"

I've seen this "(sic)" posted before. What does that mean?

I probably used it a little loosely. It strictly means to substitute out-of-date words with modern words. I was re-quoting what they said by simplifying to "a cool location is best".

I'm curious about your fully charged voltage when using their charger. I think that a 100% charge will be 15.6 volts or very close to that. The charger may not take it that high and certainly your bike won't. That said, there is nothing at all wrong with using a lithium battery at less than 100% charge. In fact it  gives you a safety margin against overcharging which is disaster.

[Ricky-D]

It certainly will be interesting and informing to see what transpires over the next

few years regarding these kind of batteries being used in the Valkyrie.

Myself, I use a cheapie lead acid gel type and a minder on my bike. Lately over

the last few years I find myself riding a lot less. No more 15k trips for me.

***

[gordonv]

It's been a while since March 1, and I just installed my LiFe battery. Connected it up to the Battery Bug I have, and it read 13.3V.

Started the bike up, and the Bug showed 50% battery life left. If I understand the Bug properly, upon start up, it annualizes the battery and gives you an estimated % life expectancy left on the battery.

Well that was a kick in the pants! A new battery and it's already half gone. My conclusion is that the Bug doesn't work properly with the Lithium battery. Since the Bug is hard to read anyways, I'm going sell it off, and go to a straight volt meter only. I also need to keep it charged at 13.1V, so a volt meter only with a larger readout is the way to go. The one posted here for the IS.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,73199.0.html

I'll be taking the bike down to Inzane in a couple of weeks, so will get a nice weeks hard riding out of it, 3K miles. Then hopefully the next week another 1000 miles on the Valhalla Rally. Will follow up as things progress.

[WintrSol]

We use Lithium chemistry batteries in radio control a lot, mostly Lithium Polymer (LiPo), because of the higher voltage and current capacity, but also Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFe), often for transmitter and receiver batteries. Fully charged, a LiFe cell is 3.6V, so a 4 cell battery for vehicle use will be 14.4V; this makes them compatible with many vehicle charging systems, but you have to be sure your regulator can not exceed 14.4V. The voltage drops quickly under load to ~3.3V per cell, where it stays until nearly fully discharged; when it drops below about 3.1V, you should disconnect the load and recharge. It is common practice to limit the full charge voltage to something less than 3.6V, in order to extend the battery's life span, so the recommended charger may stop at about 3.5V per cell, or 14.0V.

Personally, I wouldn't use one in a vehicle; consider that the bike weighs in at a lot over 700lbs, does a couple pounds really matter?

[cookiedough]

what was the cost or did I miss it?

If much over 100 bucks, probably not worth the added expense since most normal batteries should last at least 4, if not 6, years. 

[gordonv]

I didn't post here the cost, but there have been other discussions other places about the much higher cost.

I've found LiFe for as little as $200 USD. Then a special charger is best.

I got mine after the annual winter MC show, also bought the name brand Shorai with charger. A larger CCA, OEM would have been ($50-$100) cheaper. Canadian $305 for the battery and another $80 for the charger. That was with a 20% discount from the show.

As I said, from what I could find out about the battery, this would save me the problem of having to charge my battery on Strata property. Our by-law has no work on vehicles other than cleaning allowed. Under this by-law, charging or even jumping a dead battery, could get me a $100 fine. To remove the battery while the bike is on property could also see me getting fined. Would I get the fine, or a letter first? Who knows. All it takes is for someone to know the by-law and complain.

After getting it, I found all the information in the documentation that it came with that told me everything about the battery. It really isn't any better than a lead acid. But I'm making the best of a situation. It's lighter, charges more faster, a little smaller (unsure of the OEM CCA battery size).

[Gavin_Sons]

Strata property? Does this mean your housing development? Thats a crazy law if that is the case. I would be getting fines every day maybe even 2 or 3 on some days.

[gordonv]

Townhouse, apartment, etc, different country different terms.

Yes, voted in a few years ago. I told people what this means, but no one seemed to care. Told people when I see them that they can be fined $100 for checking their motor oil/change their winter tires/flat. Anyone of a number of things.

I'm sure they would need to write a warning first, before the fine. But being an ex council member, I know the bylaws.

I'm trying to put people together who will vote it down, but I need to get enough, and no one thinks it matters, then to wait for an Annual General Meeting to get it on the agenda and voted on.

[JetDriver]

"(sic) storage in a cool location is best"

I've seen this "(sic)" posted before. What does that mean?

The Latin adverb sic ("thus"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written")[1] inserted immediately after a quoted word or passage, indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an error of transcription.

You usually see it when another persons material is quoted exactly as written, and it contains a spelling or grammatical error.  It's pointing out, "they made the mistake, not me."

[gordonv]

Thank you, that made sense.

[gordonv]

Just a little follow up.

I sold the GW in Feb 2016, removed the battery and kept it for my future Valkyrie. The bike was kept insured year round, so I rode it about every month for a while, even during the winter cold. Never had a problem with the radio memory or clock of the GW, the battery was fine every time. No problems in starting it either.

Bought a Valk IS in April, but the battery is reversed polarity posts, so couldn't put it in. Instead, it's in my saddle bag (remember, it's light). Use it to jump the bike when I work on it and forget to turn off the ignition/lights. Thinking of moving it to the trailer, use it for the same thing, and power extra lights I might add onto it. Like an internal dome light, and maybe some LED lights for show.

[hubcapsc]

Mine still works, and my 1500 sits more than it used to... no tenders just ride
it at least every few weeks...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74411.msg727808.html#msg727808

-Mike

[cookiedough]

good to know that these smaller, less heavy batteries will work, but not for me, too expensive see no benefit.

If I lived where you live I would move not able to do basic things like checking oil and other basic stuff needing to be done every so often.  To me sounds like a prison of some sort not being able to do what you want to do when you want to do it. 

Similar to where some co-workers live into Illinois in some parts of the town where they live they do not feel safe walking outside at night,  too many gang bangers, etc. causing havoc.  Time to move if was me then. 

My brothers daughter was only 1-2 classes short of her bachelors degree in south side of Chicago went there since got a scholarship for volleyball to play there.  After 3-4 break ins in her apt. and the last one the person was still in the apt. when coming in the door and also seeing mere feet away outside where she lived two gang bangers shooting each other one dying,  it was time to quit college I guess even 1-2 classes away from graduating.  Not so sure I would do that so close to after 3.9 years of the 4 to get her bachelors degree, but sometimes you  have to move I guess to live? 

[xman]

Thanks, I can live without one more potential Lithium battery fire. I'm going to stick with the AGM battery.