Could use your thoughts on my current situation with '99 Valkyrie Tourer

[Glen99ct]

Need to pick your brain guys...I bought this bike new in '99 and it has 10,600 miles. I let it sit for over five years while I rode my new Electraglide, big mistake. So I have pulled, cleaned and rebuilt the carbs, Red Kote lined the tank ( after removing all rust and scales ) and I replaced the oem petcock with another oem bought on Ebay and of course, bought a new battery. I also bought new brake pads and replaced front and rear. I got it together and then chased several fuel leaks, one on the right side and then one on the left. Ultimately I pulled the six carbs and replaced one questionable float valve and a gasket as well as fuel lines and drain (Vacuum) lines. I got it back together running great with NO leaks, so I let it run the next day to warm it up and I changed the oil and filter and then the coolant ( with silicate free ) coolant. I went to start it immediately after I finished the coolant, oil changes and it clicked about four times and BAM, an awful noise. Now it only clicks when you hit the button. So I pulled the starter and the gears look fine. I reinstalled the starter and took the timing inspection cover off of the front and with a 17mm socket and rachet I could turn the motor over. I pulled the six intakes off and inspected the valve chambers as I turned the engine over and all looks fine and it turns over readily. SO...I know that my new oem petcock is bad and I'm getting a Pingel, but it won't start and just clicks at the 30 amp green fuse at lower right and to the rear of the starter. I don't know whether I broke gears somewhere else? I do know that in the 30 minutes it took to change the oil, filter and coolant the bike hydrolocked due to the bad new petcock. I know that prior to hitting the starter button I should have pulled the intakes again and checked, but I didn't think it could hydrolock in 30 minutes after running just fine and with the petcock in the middle..off position. I don't know what to do next other than wrecker it to a shop. Could use your thoughts please.  Thanks....

[Chrisj CMA]

First, If it turns over by hand its not hydrolocked.  Id look at the starter solenoid behind the right side side coverand make sure the connector is not melted and the connections are good.  May even need the starter button maintenance.  Did you put a full charge on the new battery?  If not then its probably the problem.

[Glen99ct]

No, it's not hydrolocked now. After I hit the starter and it made an awful noise I pulled the intake manifolds back off and #2 cylinder had fuel in it. I then pulled all spark plugs and turned it over by hand. I will check all electrical this afternoon and see if I can find a problem but I think the damage has been done to a gear somewhere, I just don't know where yet.

[Chrisj CMA]

No, it's not hydrolocked now. After I hit the starter and it made an awful noise I pulled the intake manifolds back off and #2 cylinder had fuel in it. I then pulled all spark plugs and turned it over by hand. I will check all electrical this afternoon and see if I can find a problem but I think the damage has been done to a gear somewhere, I just don't know where yet.

Ok, well that's different than what you said before.  Still if it turns by hand it autta turn by starter.  A weak battery dirty starter button or loose connections / bad connections all could cause the no start right now

[Skinhead]

I had to replace the starter relay on my interstate, at times it would click and not crank.  Sometimes jabbing the starter button repeatedly would get it to turn over and start, or catch it in gear if you have to.

[Hook#3287]

Hopefully, you didn't do this to your gears.



If you think you might have, remove your starter and look in there.

[Hook#3287]

Crap, missed the part where you already done that. 

What caused the "bang"?

Did you check all the teeth?

[Glen99ct]

Hook, I pulled the starter already and didn't see anything broken. All teeth were there and covered with graphite I believe. It wasn't that hard to do, just a pain in the butt and I guess I'll do it again. Skinhead may be right, it might be the starter relay because it just clicks over and over. I need to try to bypass the relay and see if it attempts to start although I have the intake tubes off and the plugs out. If it does more than click then I'll take that to be a good sign. I have yet to find out what exactly went BANG loud enough for the wife to hear from 100 ft. away. Thanks for the help!

[Chrisj CMA]

When my starter relay went.  It made a loud POP I would not have called it a bang, but maybe it was a similar sound that we just describe differently

[Hook#3287]

All teeth were there and covered with graphite I believe.

Graphite?  That's not right. Oil is what you should see

[pancho]

Your not hydrolocked right now,  At the starter relay (where you hear the click) you can jumper the two large terminals to make the starter motor spin.. Try that and see if it cranks.

What Hook said,,, you should see oil on the gears when you remove the starter,, if it is dry and dusty, look into that first.

[John Schmidt]

And to see if you have raw gas in a cylinder, pull the plugs, not the intakes.

[Glen99ct]

I tried to jump across the two wires coming out of the starter relay, the two with Allen wrench bolts, and sparks flew everywhere. I pulled the starter again and cannot find any broken teeth either. I did take pictures but don't quite know how to add them on here. When you turn the motor over from in front using a 17mm socket on the timing bolt, it turns over and you can look in each cylinder and see the valve move in and out although nothing moves at all back at where the starter mounts. I'm just still trying to find what blew and I'll probably have to buy a new starter relay to rule it out first.

[Paladin528]

Something sounds bad in that last statement.  If you are turning the engine manually and the crankshaft is obviously turning as the pistons are moving but the gears visible through the Starter Mounting hole are NOT moving. Then you have a larger issue than a relay.  somewhere between the starter and the crankshaft, something is broken.  Be is a gear or a shaft, something in that gear train is pooched.

[Glen99ct]

My thoughts exactly Paladin. I don't have a burned starter relay as in Crisj's picture and I haven't found any gears that even resemble the ones Hook posted.

[Bighead]

I haven't found any gears that even resemble the ones Hook posted.

Are you saying you didn't see the gears at all? Or you didn't see any broken ones?
If you didn't see any at all when the starter is off look in the hole where the starter came out.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I haven't found any gears that even resemble the ones Hook posted.

Are you saying you didn't see the gears at all? Or you didn't see any broken ones?
If you didn't see any at all when the starter is off look in the hole where the starter came out.

I believe he's saying he doesn't have any broken gears as were pictured by others and thinks there may be something broke further into the engine.....It would be a first as far as I've seen.

[Hook#3287]

I haven't found any gears that even resemble the ones Hook posted.

Are you saying you didn't see the gears at all? Or you didn't see any broken ones?
If you didn't see any at all when the starter is off look in the hole where the starter came out.

I believe he's saying he doesn't have any broken gears as were pictured by others and thinks there may be something broke further into the engine.....It would be a first as far as I've seen.

Unfortunately, I agree, sounds like a serious break not visible from the starter hole.  It would be a first as far as I've heard also.

[da prez]

Bench test the starter if it is still out. Look in the starter hole and use a flashlight and a magnet. You may or may not pick up parts. With the starter out , bar the engine over and look at the gears. Leave the spark plugs out until you find the problem.


                                da prez

[Bugslayer]

I tried to jump across the two wires coming out of the starter relay, the two with Allen wrench bolts, and sparks flew everywhere. I pulled the starter again and cannot find any broken teeth either. I did take pictures but don't quite know how to add them on here. When you turn the motor over from in front using a 17mm socket on the timing bolt, it turns over and you can look in each cylinder and see the valve move in and out although nothing moves at all back at where the starter mounts. I'm just still trying to find what blew and I'll probably have to buy a new starter relay to rule it out first.

If you need some pics posted, but are unsure how to post em, send them to me and I'll post them for ya.
Geist4@sbcglobal.net

[Bugslayer]

Here ya go....





Good luck!

[R J]

That bearing in the last picture looks like it has about 8 little rounds balls missing.    That is not good.

[Grandpa Bigbuck]

By the picture posted it appears you have pulled the starter apart. The gears in your picture need to be pulled away from the engine casing to look at the gears inside the engine like the picture posted by hook at the beginning of this thread.

[gordonv]

By gears, we are referring to the starter motor is powerful enough to break the teeth off the gears inside the motor, as in the referred to pictures.

[pancho]

Hey Glenn,, you didn't pull the starter from the motor,, you split it. Don't mean to sound smart, but it may be time to wrecker the bike to a shop as you suggested in the first post. 

[Glen99ct]

I'm in the process of pulling the remaining parts off. I removed the plastic cover that holds the seat lock to gain access to remove the three bolts and brackets that hold the rest of the starter onto the block. It's coming off slowly as I apply careful pressure. Almost afraid to see what is on the other side but will let you know. Thanks again for the advice.

[Glen99ct]

I'm having trouble removing the starter shaft and reduction gearcase. I've removed the bolts but they are giving me trouble. Are they supposed to come apart easily? if so, I probably found my problems.

[pancho]

hey Glenn if you only got sparks when you jumped the two terminals on the starter relay . and the starter will not spin you are already holding the badpiece in your hand in the pictures.  forgive the spelling I'm on my phone

[indybobm]

There is a o-ring where it goes into the rear case and it goes into the rear case a couple of inches. Since the other part of the starter has been removed you do not the same amount of leverage to pull it out of the rear case. Can you put the stater back together so that you can wiggle it out?

[pancho]

Or you can pry the reduction gear case out with the right size screwdriver and then reassemble the starter.  The next thing I would do after that is use a set of jumper cables to try to spin the starter to verify if the starter is the problem or not.

Well, you got the bolts out without snapping them off,  good deal, they are probably stretched and stressed a bit now, the top bolts and the top ones in the alternator with the drilled through mounting holes will tend to corrode in place. If you don't replace them, at least lube them up with antiseize before reassembly.

[Bugslayer]

Another pic of Glen's situation..... That sucks.

[Glen99ct]

I finally got the starter reduction gear case off and my gears look EXACTLY like Hooks picture. Now I know that the motor has to come out. This situation is due to my buying a OEM petcock on Ebay that turned out to have a bad diaphragm. After cleaning all rust out of the gas tank and lining it with RedKote, and after pulling the carbs and cleaning and rebuilding them and then chasing fuel line leaks and vacuum line leaks until the bike ran great and had no leaks. I ran it for 5 minutes to get it warm and then changed the oil and filter and then the coolant and when I hit the starter it blew. No question in my mind that the petcock failed and filled at least one cylinder with fuel while I was changing the oil. Do you guys agree?
My bad for hitting the starter button several times before it blew, but honestly when it clicked 2 or 3 times I attributed it to the new oil needing to work up and through. Guys, please don't make the same mistake! Their is a reason why your Valkyrie only clicks, so don't "force" it to start like I did.
 
Anyone have any idea how much it's going to cost to get her repaired? I'm guessing about 10 hours shop labor plus parts and assorted?

[R J]

Contact Attic Rat in Oklahoma, he has an engine out of an I/S he is parting out.

Find him in the members file and send him a PM.

[gordonv]

If you pull the engine, the easy work is ready to be done. Need the big sockets (posted in other threads) to get the items out to get to those gears. Right tools (shop) maybe 2-3 hours.

If you pull the engine yourself, then I would go all the way and do the job yourself. Read up on it, lots of info, get everything together, and off to the races. A weekend, and a few cool drinks, and you should be done.

Now, with regards to blaming it all on the petcock, that's wrong. Petcock is only 1 of 2 parts of a hydro lock, unless you have a leaky diaphragm into #6 cylinder via the vacuum line. The other is the carb float slicking open. Still your bad with repeatedly hitting the starter switch. But until your have this in your mind every time you hit the starter, what else would you do if nothing on the first push.

[pancho]

Whoa,, that really does suck,,,  I was really trying to believe that it was just the starter....   That's a bit more of a job.

[Attic Rat]

glen I have done several of these and have the special tools. If you would like to talk about it give me a call
918-720-5444