Problems are multiplying-now a gas leak!

[pais]

     Rode the Valk Monday to work and run an errand. This totaled about 10 miles tops. Parked in garage as usual. Wife came home asked what the strong smell in garage was. Went out, smelled like gas but also smelled like a warm bike. Checked the Valk out, no signs of anything. Went out a few hours later still nothing, but odor was still their not as strong. Next morning on my way out the door checked Valk and their was large puddle of gas under her. She's on sidestand so gas running down crash bar and dripping off left side. Put a pan under her to catch fluid. Came home at lunch took a look. Right side center carb dripping steady, right side rear most carb slower drip. Seems to be dripping from inside bottom edge of carbs. Very hard to see. Still dripping steady Tuesday evening. Got pissed and went in house to make dinner, have a beer and pout  . Finally riding season and I can't ride! . Needless to say, can't have gas leaking in attached garage!
   I've done some searching and have read "o" rings need replaced, fuel rail problems? Not sure of what my problem really is. To be honest if it is "o" rings. I've been hoping from what I've researched that they will swell up and quit leaking  Worried that hydro lock is a concern? Also in my searching, a stuck float? I am one of those Valk riders that shuts the fuel off a couple blocks from home.
    Seems like in my short amount of time on here. I have went to the well quite often. I don't want to wear out my welcome here but any and all ideas, suggestions and plain old help will be appreciated  Have to be honest. I have kept my fingers crossed since I bought this beautiful, wonderful bike. That I do not incur carb problems. Seems from what I have read, that it can be a rather daunting process? Especially for me and during riding season to boot!
    Well, have to go get ready to run the rat race for another day. I will be looking forward to what you fine gentlemen have to say in this matter.
                                                   Sincerely
                                                       Pais

[Hook#3287]

I'd pull the tank and carbs.  Replace the petcock and float valves.  Check all tubing.

If she's still leaking now, your petcock is trashed for sure.  If the float(s) are sticking, you have a potential hydro lock.

I've never had a rail leak, so can't advise on that.

Sounds like you need to find an experienced Valk mech.

[Gryphon Rider]

If she's still leaking now, your petcock is trashed for sure.

There's enough fuel in the fuel rail to cause a noticeable leak even with the petcock closed properly.

[BobB]

I hate to say it, but this does not sound like one of those leaks that fix themselves.  I had that happen this spring but only after the seals had been dry all winter.  If it has been steadily dripping for hours, the fuel lines and rails should have emptied out, so it sounds like your OEM petcock is malfunctioning.  Turn it to the off position and see what happens.  The petcock can be rebuilt with what's called a cover set.  Pull the spark plug out of #3 (center right) before attempting to start it.  It may be hydrolocked (liquid gas in the cylinder).  The actual carb leak may be from the overflow where a drain line is connected.

[Hoser]

I would replace the stock pos petcock with a manual petcock , and use it. Hoser

[lljjmm]

Question on the #3 cylinder,  It was stated to remove #3 cylinder plug to clear possible fuel issues.

Is the #3  the only cylinder plug you need to remove to clear any fuel issues for potential hydrolock or to be on the side of caution should "all" of the plugs be removed to clear any potential fuel issues?

"Looking for clarification", as I  trailer my bike (a Valk Interstate) and when I reach my destination I have been removing "all' the plugs to clear any possible fuel that may have entered the cylinders from the bouncing around in the trailer.
 I do have a Pingle petcock installed.

 The reason I ask is that I don't like always like having to remove the pods to access all the plugs.

[jshram]

Based on my recent experience (read my thread here:  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,77173.0.html ) with leaky fuel rail gaskets, I'll bet that is it along with your petcock.. make sure you turn that baby off every time you stop the bike, period.. no exceptions.

Anyway, if you take down the carbs, get the redeye kit but add the intake O-rings, exhaust gaskets and the bowl gaskets... I also added the tank-quick-release kit.  Everything he does is super well organized, but I'll tell you now it is not a simple job and requires great patience.

John

[pais]

I hate to say it, but this does not sound like one of those leaks that fix themselves.  I had that happen this spring but only after the seals had been dry all winter.  If it has been steadily dripping for hours, the fuel lines and rails should have emptied out, so it sounds like your OEM petcock is malfunctioning.  Turn it to the off position and see what happens.  The petcock can be rebuilt with what's called a cover set.  Pull the spark plug out of #3 (center right) before attempting to start it.  It may be hydrolocked (liquid gas in the cylinder).  The actual carb leak may be from the overflow where a drain line is connected.

   Actually this was the first time I had ridden after pulling bike fro long cold winter storage. Other than firing up after changing coolant.
      I just went out and checked. Still leaking but, has slowed down. I had shut off my petcock about 3 blocks from home before shutting off bike. Petcock has not since been open.

[pais]

Based on my recent experience (read my thread here:  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,77173.0.html ) with leaky fuel rail gaskets, I'll bet that is it along with your petcock.. make sure you turn that baby off every time you stop the bike, period.. no exceptions.

Anyway, if you take down the carbs, get the redeye kit but add the intake O-rings, exhaust gaskets and the bowl gaskets... I also added the tank-quick-release kit.  Everything he does is super well organized, but I'll tell you now it is not a simple job and requires great patience.

John

 
     John,
   I remember seeing your post originally. It caught my eye because of the trouble you had separating carbs. One of the reasons I keep my fingers crossed. Evidently my luck has run out.
   She's still leaking, just seems to have slowed down. Emptied catch pan last night around 19:30. Just checked @ 05:30. Small amount in pan. I checked left side and it appears small leaks on 2 front carbs also. Why I didn't check before I cant tell you? I don't know if its running from high side. Cant see, but drips are coming from the same nipples that are visible on all four carbs. I always turn petcock off, whether its a few blocks from home or after I turn bike around to back into garage. In this case I had turned it off two or three blocks from home.
   Well, gonna order parts today. I figure a week before I see them. Get it broke down this weekend. Have it parked on back patio with cover on it currently. No rain in forecast and no time right now to get tank off. Don't want leaking gas in garage.
    Gonna search for tank removal tips. Do you have any? Last tank I had to remove was my '82 CB900F. I don't think this will be that easy?
Thanx and take care.
Gary

[Brian]

Hey there pais,

Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in the gas per the bottle instructions cure my multiple fuel leaks after 3 tanks of gas. I still ordered everything from Redeye and replaced the OEM jets. The bowl gaskets are a different set than the carb set. I suggest you get a shop manual and take before pictures of the linkage and the springs between the carbs. I also suggest you remove the pilot needle valves too replacing those 0-rings and washers.

This whole project requires time with no distractions. The shop manual will take you through the entire process as well as the instructions from Redeye. The carbs can be bench sync'ed that will get them close. A final adjustment at the end will also need done with the bike running.

The last time I done mine I rebuilt one carb at a time.  Spend some time researching this here and your shop manual while you gather all the cleaners and tools as well as the parts and ride that bike using MMO in the gas.

You can do this.

[Hook#3287]

If she's still leaking now, your petcock is trashed for sure.

There's enough fuel in the fuel rail to cause a noticeable leak even with the petcock closed properly.

Yeah, I understand that, but after two days I would think the rails would be empty.

I guess it depends on drip rate, but sounds like his is leaking steadily.

Anyways, the petcock will tell its tale when he removes the gas line.

[Hook#3287]

Question on the #3 cylinder,  It was stated to remove #3 cylinder plug to clear possible fuel issues.

Is the #3  the only cylinder plug you need to remove to clear any fuel issues for potential hydrolock or to be on the side of caution should "all" of the plugs be removed to clear any potential fuel issues?

"Looking for clarification", as I  trailer my bike (a Valk Interstate) and when I reach my destination I have been removing "all' the plugs to clear any possible fuel that may have entered the cylinders from the bouncing around in the trailer.
 I do have a Pingle petcock installed.

 The reason I ask is that I don't like always like having to remove the pods to access all the plugs.

I believe any cyclinder can become locked, all that is needed is a leaking petcock, a stuck float valve and an open intake valve of the same cylinder.

[Bagger John - #3785]

Pais,

You're right up the road from me (so to say). I've removed, rebuilt and re-installed a number of Valkyrie carb assemblies over the years. If you want help with yours, let me know.

[R J]

Any cylinder can hydro lock so don't rely on only pulling the #3 plug.

If you shut the petcock off away from home and rode in that way, I wouldn't trust that one across the street.

Replace it with a Pingle, and a Dan Marc switch.

Anytime the bike is on the trailer, make sure the petcock is off.

I believe it was at a function in Prescott, AZ that I was at, someone hauled their bike in on a trailer and she filled all 6 cylinders up.

While he was unloading the bike someone came by and said I'd pull the plugs and blow the cylinders out.     When he hit the starter, it blew gas on about 8 nosy spectators.   I was too far back to get hit but it came close.

LOL.

[jshram]

Removing the tank is easy (make sure the wheel is straight, hold it straight with a strap on the right side back to a passenger foot peg)... it is the rest of the removal that is a pain.

I set up a portable table, covered it with a thrift-store white flannel sheet (if you drop a little part, it won't bounce off the smooth table and disappear, the flannel sheet stops the rolly-rolly)... $3.00 well invested.  you'll also need a table lamp you can move and focus on a carb.. and if you're over 50, don't forget your reading glasses (thank GOD for those).

I did one part at a time on each carb until the bag was empty.. move carbs from left to right, then right to left as you add the part.. when all the bags are empty, you are done!   

Best of luck!  Be patient!  Only do one thing on that table, do not share with any other work or item.. no dinner, no books, no TV... just carbs.

John

[pais]

    Well, finally had time to pull bike back into garage and give her some attention. Fuel leak had finally stopped sometime Friday. It was always a steady leak that slowed down each day. If I had to guess. I probably lost somewhere between 6-8 ounces of gas.
     Pulled the fuel switch indicator off first. No screw, just the bolt holding it on. Disconnected all the hoses from PC. What a pain, fuel line was a real PIA! Petcock seems to be ok. Was not letting fuel by when I disconnected the hoses. Operated it in on and reserve. Worked as it should.
     Pulled air box. Kind of a PIA. Can't hardly wait to put in back in. While on the air box. I saw in a post where a gent put Gorilla glue around air tubes where they enter air box. Is that a real concern? That area takes some stress when removing. I'm sure that is the case when re-installing.
     From this view, no apparent sign of leaks. Their are "moist" spots where fuel enters fuel rail. I took pics. No time to download from my phone and then to Photostash. I will this evening. Bottom of carbs are wet. So I'm thinking this is where leak is. Rather amazing all carbs are wet. When I brought her back into garage, I got her up on lift so she's straight not leaning. Gas sitting on top of engine flowed off the front and into pan. Fair amount sitting their. But it did stop and no more has dripped.
     Wish I would of turned on gas before I removed tank to see if I could spot leak that way. Tonight I will hook some fuel up to it and give it a try. Hope this will be productive?
     Trying to get psyched up to remove carbs. Hoping plenty of pics, marked parts, tubing and of course you guys will get me through this!
     Gotta go to work. Thanks for all the input thus far!!!
            Pais

[salty1]

If she's still leaking now, your petcock is trashed for sure.

There's enough fuel in the fuel rail to cause a noticeable leak even with the petcock closed properly.

You've got fuel rails leaking IMO, however the gas that passed over the Orings has now swelled them to prevent  any further leaking. If you regularly ride your bike now, you shouldn't have any more leaking. However upon long storage those Orings will dry out again and you will experience the same leak(s).  FWIW. I would not use Gorilla glue to seal those intake points on the airbox Just my .02 cents worth.

[pais]

     I pulled all the spark plugs and turned it over. No gas came from any of the cylinders. Wish I would of put plugs back in and tried to start it with fuel on. So I could see if I could spot the leak. Not thinking at all.
    I figured it quit leaking because PC was turned off and working. Figured it just finally ran out of fuel. I do not ride nearly as much as I would like. During nice weather it will not sit for more than a day or two, sometimes. Again I should of tried starting after it quit leaking! 

[Brian]

After I rebuilt all the carbs I set the carb assembly on an old cookie sheet and set the gas tank above them using a box and connected the gas line. I use a manual gas valve on the tank so supplying a vacuum source was not needed. I let this set-up sit for two days before installing them on the bike just make sure I had no leaks. Take your time, one carb at a time and keep them in order. Using clear silicone  grease works great on the fuel rail 0-rings.

[pancho]

Pais,

You're right up the road from me (so to say). I've removed, rebuilt and re-installed a number of Valkyrie carb assemblies over the years. If you want help with yours, let me know.

Hey pais,, you can't do any better than this,,,,  someone who has done it before,, meet a new person to show off all your toys to.,, maybe make a friend,,, one saved misstep is worth all the sandwiches and beers a guy can consume.... you can't beat that.

[pais]

    Cant argue with you on that one Pancho!
   I threw a cover over my Valk and walked away, very frustrated. I have never done any work to any of my bikes at this level. Intimidated to say the least and not confident on completion or what may be the results. Nor can I justify paying a dealer to do the work. Just very hard for me to ask someone I have never met to help me fix my cycle. I appreciate the offer very much and have told him so. I plan on calling him when I get shall I say "stuck".
   I am on here this morning nosing around as I do most every morning with my cup of java. Going out to garage after I empty my cup and start doing something. I just have to have patience!
    Enjoy the day!

   Pais

[pancho]

I understand every comment you made brother,,,,  give Bagger John a call, just to come over to take a look, the whole project will start to come into prospective. Don't wait to get "stuck",, you will be more frustrated by then.

It is a good morning to get into something,,, I got a flat on the rear while riding yesterday (met more good people in an hour than I have in the last two months) and am going to put the wheel with the car tire back on to give it another try,, it will be fun. You enjoy the day too Pais.

[salty1]

    Cant argue with you on that one Pancho!
   I threw a cover over my Valk and walked away, very frustrated. I have never done any work to any of my bikes at this level. Intimidated to say the least and not confident on completion or what may be the results. Nor can I justify paying a dealer to do the work. Just very hard for me to ask someone I have never met to help me fix my cycle. I appreciate the offer very much and have told him so. I plan on calling him when I get shall I say "stuck".
   I am on here this morning nosing around as I do most every morning with my cup of java. Going out to garage after I empty my cup and start doing something. I just have to have patience!
    Enjoy the day!

   Pais

Remember that old saying "Hang in there baby"? As Pancho said don't wait until your frustrated. If help is offered don't be so shy. 

[pais]

    Well, I dove head first into getting carbs off the Valk Saturday. Didn't think about it, just did it. They are out and laying on the table in the garage. Process was nowhere near as bad as I had envisioned. As  Jshram said, be patient and organized. As I look over the manual some more which by the way was very helpful in removal. Fuel rail dis-assembly looks challenging.
    I procrastinated and did not order parts ahead of time. So I am at a standstill and its all my fault. Hoping you guys will chime in with a complete list of everything (parts) I will need to do this job?
    I figure this would be a good time to do a de-smog. I know I had/have intake leaks. Residue around base area of 3 or 4 of them. Couple vac lines are also bad. PO must have done this. The lines were not of the right material as well as a bit too large. Small nylon zip tie was trying to hold them on. I was able to pull off very easily. I was looking on RedEye sight last night. Shiny de-smog kit not listed. Shot Rich an email, and he responded pretty damn quick. On a Sat. night to boot! He's out of the shiny's and "hoping" he will have them in a month. Waiting on pieces that are manufactured for him. So that sucks. Any suggestions?

[pancho]

Sounds like you are well on your way now,,, no turning back. I think the biggest challenge will be getting the carbs separated,, search for threads on the subject,,, you will find many helpful suggestions and a few pictures of what not to do. I suggest wooden wedges, a penetrating lubricant and plenty of patience.

Desmog?? I have never. Sort of like a radical mastectomy for a mole. I have heard it said it is to prevent possible vacuum leaks, but that certainly does not require the removal of everything. 

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1997/GL1500C+AC/TUBING/parts.html

I left all the metal tubes and the reed valves, replaced #8's with some heater hose pieces as they were dried out,, removed the "pair" valve #11 and used a piece of heater hose to connect the reed valve assemblies together. I left it so it could be made functional again if I wanted to, but opened up some space under the carburetors. I personally like the looks of the chrome tubing, and the idea of the system, but that being said, if I ever completely disassemble a flat six motor, those parts will not go back on.

[pais]

   Pancho, kinda figured I would replace all the vac tubing, intake O-rings, vac caps and see how that goes. I did have the popping on de-celleration. Having seen the condition of intakes and some of the vac lines and caps. I'm sure that is the culprit. At least as sure as I can be. I did not know I can get rid of P.A.I.R. valve like you mention. That does not affect performance?
   On RedEyes web site I saw somewhere on how to test the reed valves. So you by passed the reed valves by bridging over them (left them in  place) with the #6 hoses?

[pais]

    Wondering if $99.18 is a good price for a Pingel Powerflow Petcock #1311CH? Going to replace stock PC while I have tank off.

[jshram]

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/desmog.htm

That's the de-smog method I did though I didn't make plates, I just JB-welded them all up, added some touch-up paint so they wouldn't rust (where the tubes were cut) and then reinstalled.  Pretty easy, but does take some time... cutting out one tube that goes behind the timing chain cover is a pain...

Take that opportunity, when you've loosened your exhaust (though I don't think you have to) to replace the exhaust gaskets.  Get the big puffy ones, not the little copper ones.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-GL1500-GL1800-Goldwing-Gold-Wing-Valkyrie-Aspencade-SE-EXHAUST-GASKETS-/400881500322?hash=item5d566640a2&vxp=mtr

Patience!  Neatness... and a cheap flannel sheet.

John

[pancho]

  Pancho, kinda figured I would replace all the vac tubing, intake O-rings, vac caps and see how that goes. I did have the popping on de-celleration. Having seen the condition of intakes and some of the vac lines and caps. I'm sure that is the culprit. At least as sure as I can be. I did not know I can get rid of P.A.I.R. valve like you mention. That does not affect performance?
   On RedEyes web site I saw somewhere on how to test the reed valves. So you by passed the reed valves by bridging over them (left them in  place) with the #6 hoses?

Yep,, I said I replaced the #8's, but I should have said the #6's, and jumped the two reed valve assemblies. This renders the system inoperable (same as a complete desmog), but leaves all the tubing in place and saves the work and potential problems and leaks associated with the total removal of the system, plus leaves it in a condition to make it operable again,, although I don't know why I would. I do sort of like the looks of the tubes and the idea that it can be made completely stock.

If you go this route, you still need to plug the port on the air box that feeds the Pair valve.

With the work you described that you are going to do (intake O rings, vac hoses and caps), you will take care of any potential air leaks, there are really not many places to cause that problem.