Brake bleeding may not be hard, but it is for me!!

[cogsman]

Can someone please help?

I went to bleed my brakes. My brakes, front and rear were barely catching. I bought a mighty-vac type bleeding unit.

Opened up the master cylinder for the front brakes. There was hardly any fluid in the reservoir. What there was, was filthy. I pulled out what I could with a turkey baster and then started to do the bleed.

Here's exactly what I did:

-Connected the smallest adapter that came with the bleeder to the bleed nipple (front right)
-Connected a long hose from the adapter to the canister
-Connected a small hose to the fitting inside the canister lid (hangs down into the canister)
-Connected another long hose from the other end of the canister to the hand-held vacuum pump
-Filled up the reservoir with fresh fluid
-Pumped the unit to get a vacuum going (15-20 times)
-Opened the bleed valve
-The adapter was not seating properly and I could hear air being sucked in
-Lots of air bubbles in the hose
-Closed the bleed valve
-Refilled the reservoir
-Pumped for more vacuum
-Opened the bleed valve while pushing the adapter snug to the nipple
-Could see a lot of foamy air bubble near where the adapter connected to the hose

Eventually had to empty the canister

-I wrapped a bunch of teflon tape around the bleed nipple (leaving the opening free)
-Push the adapter down in order to make a seal
-All that did was squash the teflon tape down

Tried holding the adapter as snugly as i could while getting vacuum going and bleeding as described.

What I was expecting to see was a solid column of brake fluid in the hose, with big bubbles eventually dwindling to small bubbles and then to no bubbles

Instead, the fluid never fills the hose completely. It drains down into the canister, but I can barely see it in the hose itself, so I have no clue if I'm doing this right or not.

I've emptied the canister at least 4 times. I'm halfway through a big bottle of brake fluid. It seems there is air in the lines. I'm unable to get any pressure on the brake lever.

Now I understand that people will say "get a second person". That's fine, except if I am doing it wrong, then I'll be doing it wrong with company, and still be getting nowhere.

I have read the Clymer manual, read every post I could find on here... I'm a reasonably intelligent guy (I think)... so what am I doing wrong?

As a newer "tinkerer", I may need a bit more detail about how to do this.

I was told a while ago to not bother with bleeder kits and just use the hose in the canister method. I just don't see why I can't accomplish this on my own with the bleeder kit.

Any help would be appreciated.

[3W-lonerider]

heres how I do it. the only time I use a mityvac is on the clutch when it's necessary.
get your self a jar and drill a hole in the lid just big enough for a hose to fit down threw.
put about 1 inch of fluid in the jar and submerge the hose into the fluid. connect the other end of the hose to the bleed nipple.
fill the reservoir and start pumping. eventually you'll see the bubbles go away and have a solid stream.
close the bleed valve and move to the other brake and do the same.
only time iv'e ever had to use a mity vac is on the clutch when I accidently got air in the line and couldn't get it out.
remember to keep your reservoir full

[hubcapsc]

You can probably get brake-sized speedbleeders down at Advance Auto...

-Mike

[gordonv]

What is it you are calling the canister? The master cylinder reservoir or the Mitty Vac catch bottle?

Sounds like to me you have air getting into your brake line somewhere, maybe your Banjo Bolt, and this is the air you are seeing in the line, and is why you are not seeing the air in the fluid dwindling.

You description sounds like you are doing it correctly.

[cogsman]

I was referring to the catch bottle.

What/where is the banjo bolt?

[gordonv]

The banjo bolt is the one that holds the brake line to the reservoir. Remove the bolt, and the brake line end looks like a banjo.

[Jetflyer]

speedbleeders 

[knockdolian]

First thing, if the brake fluid is very low you either have a leak or the pads are warn so check them. If you undo the bleed nipple too much air will be drawn in from around the threads. Just try the old way with a jar and hose and see what you get. Doing it that way will work fine and can be done by one. The only time this way is difficult is when fitting new lines then it's a pig. Horrible black fluid can be a sign that your seals are on there way. Was your brakes working ok before you started ?

[idaida98]

SPEED BLEADERS!!!!!!!!

[cogsman]

My brakes were softer than usual before I started. The fluid wasn't black But dark dirty.

So if I try the old method, I just need to keep pumping the lever and keep the reservoir full. That's it? You mean that will fill the line back up with fluid and eventually get all the air out?

[Bone]

Reading your first post maybe your opening the bleeder to much. Just barely open until you see movement in the line. The fluid has to push the air down the line so the air will exit giving room for more fluid.

The tiny bubbles you saw while using the MityVac is air being sucked in from around the bleeder valve not through the line. Try to not pump as much pressure if using the MityVac.

When it works you won't believe how well it works.

[mike72903]

My brakes were softer than usual before I started. The fluid wasn't black But dark dirty.

So if I try the old method, I just need to keep pumping the lever and keep the reservoir full. That's it? You mean that will fill the line back up with fluid and eventually get all the air out?

I grew up bleeding brakes like that and your answer is yes.  Simple and effective.

[Gryphon Rider]

Like Bone says, it doesn't take much of a turn of the wrench to open the bleed fitting, I'd say 1/8 turn or less.  Opening the bleeder much more than that is probably why you're sucking so much air.  I'm sorry, I don't even have the beginning of an idea why, when you close the bleeder, you can't get pressure from the brake lever.

Three days ago I bled my front and rear brakes, and the clutch fluid.  I used the old-fashioned method, attaching a clear hose and canister to the bleeder, then:
1. Pressure on lever.
2. With pressure on lever, open bleeder, which allows the lever to move farther and fluid to go into the hose.
3. Close bleeder.
4. Release lever, then back to step 1 if there is still lots of fluid remaining in the reservoir.
5. When the master cylinder reservoir is close to empty, the lever must be released slowly to prevent air from being sucked into the opening.  When the level is very close to the opening, take a small brush and scrub the gunk off the bottom of the reservoir, then soak up the remaining fluid with paper towel and wipe out whatever's left.
6. Fill the reservoir with new brake fluid and repeat steps 1 to 4 until new brake fluid (lighter in colour than old brake fluid) is coming out the bleeder into the clear hose.
7. Close and cap the bleeder, then fill the reservoir and re-assemble the cover, ensuring the black rubber gasket is collapsed flat first.

Of course, take all precautions to prevent and immediately clean up drips and spills.

I have found that only bleeding the left front caliper requires a helper.  If you don't have a helper, perhaps that's the one to use the suction pump with after already doing the right front caliper.

I used one 12 oz. bottle for front, rear, and clutch, and had a little left over.

FYI, I also had air bubbles using a vacuum pump to bleed the brakes on my car:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56361.0.html

[cogsman]

Should the hose be fully filled with fluid when this is happening? Solid column of fluid?

[3W-lonerider]

as long as the hose in your bottle stays submerged below fluid line there is no reason to open and close the bleeder.
when the hose in the bottle is below fluid level it cannot suck air back into the system on release of the lever.
and yes your hose should be bubble free after you get all the air out of the system.

[R J]

A secret I learned long time ago from my Great grandfather was,

1, take reservoir cover off.
2, tie the brake lever to the handlebar grip.
3, Go to bed and leave all night.
4, Next morning, fill reservoir.
5, Replace cover.
6, Should have good solid brakes.

This lets all air leak out overnight.

Has worked for me for over 70+ years.

My neighbor is trying to rebuild, note I said trying, a 1972 CB350.    I ended up doing the engine for him.

He didn't know how to get the head and cylinders off.      DUH.

I should talk, 75 years ago, I didn't know how either, but I could sure tear hell out of a clock, but never did get one back together.    LOL.

He was having trouble getting the air out of the lines, I didn't have the heart to tell him he was doing it ass backwards, so I just pumped up the pressure the best I could, tied the lever off to the handlebar and went back home with instructions not to muck with it till I came back over, after 3 attempts it took all the air out.    PS: never tried to take any air out via pump up, hold, tighten valve and let off the handle bar lever.   That was like 4 months ago and he is still riding it with great brakes.

Finally got him to use the front brake along with the rear one and it stops on a dime, gives ya back a nickle and 5 pennies.

He took his grand daughter for a ride the other day and she got into the exhaust.    Never told anyone as she was afraid they wouldn't let her ride no more.   Mommy found the blister about 4 days later when it broke.      ONE SORE SOB.     Felt sorry for the poor girl.    Shewanted to cry but wouldn't whimper.

[Gryphon Rider]

as long as the hose in your bottle stays submerged below fluid line there is no reason to open and close the bleeder.
when the hose in the bottle is below fluid level it cannot suck air back into the system on release of the lever.
and yes your hose should be bubble free after you get all the air out of the system.

I'll try that next time.

[hubcapsc]

as long as the hose in your bottle stays submerged below fluid line there is no reason to open and close the bleeder.
when the hose in the bottle is below fluid level it cannot suck air back into the system on release of the lever.
and yes your hose should be bubble free after you get all the air out of the system.

I'll try that next time.

Doesn't it suck old fluid back, instead, through?

-Mike

[Steve K (IA)]

To me, Speed Bleeders are worth their weight in gold.

Got them on both Valks in all 3 locations.

 

[Patrick]

I haven't read the other posts. I'm old fashioned I guess, but, have been doing this for 50+ years.
First, why are you bleeding the brakes ? Any problems other than dirty fluid ?

Keep reservoir full, do not let it get dry.
Turning the handle bars will help keep it somewhat level.
Do not let fluid get on the paint.
Start at farthest bleeder. Pump the handle or foot lever [ whichever you're trying to bleed]  a few times and hold.
Open bleeder screw.
Close bleeder screw.
Release lever.
Pump lever several times again and repeat process until fluid looks clear and with NO air bubbles.

[Earl43P]

All this bleeding tech and nary a mention of cleaning out the master cylinder spooge hole. Black fluid means crud.

Here's what I do.

Clean all crud/fluid out of the master, including spooge hole. Refill it.
Pump the caliper pistons pretty far out, till it exposes non-cruddy metal. Clean the exposed pistons with brake fluid and a scotchbrite pad.
Put a drip of fluid on the cleaned pistons and C-clamp push them back in with an old brake pad. Keep the pistons C-clamped fully retracted. Put a long clear tube on the bleeder and tie it slightly higher than the master.

Crack the bleeder and pump until the fluid in the tube becomes clear. I let it overflow into a pan - WATCH YOUR PAINT!! Don't open the bleeder wide open, just cracked enough to get flow. Close the bleeder during a pressure stroke, should feel resistance. Do one caliper at a time, leaving one clamping to its rotor until its turn.

Remove C-clamp. Install new pads, then pump until they clamp onto the rotor. Do the other caliper. Refill Master and confidently install the lid.  Tie the lever till it almost touches the grip. Enjoy adult beverages and check it the next day. Works every time, although I did have to tie the lever two nights in a row one time. I rode it to work in between and they felt soft.

Rear is similar, but you have to be creative to hold the pedal down overnight.

My 93 has the linked F/R, but it worked for them too. I just did them one at a time, front first.

[BobB]

The only thing I have to add to the information above is that tiny air bubbles in the system tend to attach themselves to the internal walls of the slave cylinders, lines, etc.  Rapping the brake parts with the handle of a screw driver while bleeding dislodges these bubbles...

[cogsman]

What size hose fits best on the bleeder nipples without the need for an adapter (and therefore without a second point for potential air leaks)? The one that came with my mighty vac is too big.

[Bone]

Bought my vac many years ago and still use that line. The tiny air bubbles you see in the line isn't really in the system they are coming from the loose fitting line. The bigger bubbles are the ones trapped in the system being pushed out by the fluid.

[3W-lonerider]

What size hose fits best on the bleeder nipples without the need for an adapter (and therefore without a second point for potential air leaks)? The one that came with my mighty vac is too big.

I use the same hose that I use for the vacuum lines. which is I think 5/32.

[3W-lonerider]

as long as the hose in your bottle stays submerged below fluid line there is no reason to open and close the bleeder.
when the hose in the bottle is below fluid level it cannot suck air back into the system on release of the lever.
and yes your hose should be bubble free after you get all the air out of the system.

I'll try that next time.

Doesn't it suck old fluid back, instead, through?
 no it does not suck the old fluid back in. why? because when you release the lever all your doing is releasing the pressure, the lever isn't drawing the fluid back.
but if you release the lever with the nipple open to air then yes it will draw air into the system.
-Mike

[da prez]

I have a silicone lube with my mity-vac. When it runs out , silicone dia-electric on the vacuum connections to help seal the hoses.  Reverse bleeding can also be done. I do what ever I have to to get the brakes working.

                                 da prez

[Chrisj CMA]

Like Bone says, it doesn't take much of a turn of the wrench to open the bleed fitting, I'd say 1/8 turn or less.  Opening the bleeder much more than that is probably why you're sucking so much air.  I'm sorry, I don't even have the beginning of an idea why, when you close the bleeder, you can't get pressure from the brake lever.

Three days ago I bled my front and rear brakes, and the clutch fluid.  I used the old-fashioned method, attaching a clear hose and canister to the bleeder, then:
1. Pressure on lever.
2. With pressure on lever, open bleeder, which allows the lever to move farther and fluid to go into the hose.
3. Close bleeder.
4. Release lever, then back to step 1 if there is still lots of fluid remaining in the reservoir.
5. When the master cylinder reservoir is close to empty, the lever must be released slowly to prevent air from being sucked into the opening.  When the level is very close to the opening, take a small brush and scrub the gunk off the bottom of the reservoir, then soak up the remaining fluid with paper towel and wipe out whatever's left.
6. Fill the reservoir with new brake fluid and repeat steps 1 to 4 until new brake fluid (lighter in colour than old brake fluid) is coming out the bleeder into the clear hose.
7. Close and cap the bleeder, then fill the reservoir and re-assemble the cover, ensuring the black rubber gasket is collapsed flat first.

Of course, take all precautions to prevent and immediately clean up drips and spills.

I have found that only bleeding the left front caliper requires a helper.  If you don't have a helper, perhaps that's the one to use the suction pump with after already doing the right front caliper.

I used one 12 oz. bottle for front, rear, and clutch, and had a little left over.

FYI, I also had air bubbles using a vacuum pump to bleed the brakes on my car:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56361.0.html

Man, Until this thread I never knew bleeding brakes was such a pain, you guys gave me a headache reading about how hard it can be made.  I do like Graphon and all is always well, never needed a helper.....just get in the right position and squeeze open close release until you get clear fluid out........why does it have to be hard, I don't know

[cogsman]

I can only say it's hard for me because I've never done it before. Might come easy for you and I'm glad it does.  For others maybe not so much.

[Chrisj CMA]

I can only say it's hard for me because I've never done it before. Might come easy for you and I'm glad it does.  For others maybe not so much.

You miss my point.  All those hoses and pumps and things not sealing.  If you never have done it before why not go simple until you know your way around the system.. Squeeze, open, close, release, repeat.  Its easy and Im not bragging that I am so great.  Its just easy until we make it hard, then its not easy anymore.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I can only say it's hard for me because I've never done it before. Might come easy for you and I'm glad it does.  For others maybe not so much.

You miss my point.  All those hoses and pumps and things not sealing.  If you never have done it before why not go simple until you know your way around the system.. Squeeze, open, close, release, repeat.  Its easy and Im not bragging that I am so great.  Its just easy until we make it hard, then its not easy anymore.

I've got to agree with Jeff. I do it old school also. It's pretty easy even by yourself. I think what he was saying is the contraptions are what are causing problems for you 

[cogsman]

Ok i used the old school method and bled both the front brakes. No air bubbles and I have pressure on my brake lever. Thanks for the assistance everyone.

I think I did it right. is there a way to know if all the pistons extended properly without having to remove the calipers? the lever stops the bike so I know at least 1 piston is pushing out...

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok i used the old school method and bled both the front brakes. No air bubbles and I have pressure on my brake lever. Thanks for the assistance everyone.

I think I did it right. is there a way to know if all the pistons extended properly without having to remove the calipers? the lever stops the bike so I know at least 1 piston is pushing out...

I think you can have someone pull the lever while you are down on the ground watching the pads. I think if the push out evenly you should be fine. Glad it worked out. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways 

[Yfx4]

I modified a speed bleeder. I have it in a hose that I move from bleeder to bleeder so I can easily do a one person bleed on any of our 5 cars or 3 bikes or RV....without having to pay for all those speed bleeders.

[hubcapsc]

I modified a speed bleeder. I have it in a hose that I move from bleeder to bleeder so I can easily do a one person bleed on any of our 5 cars or 3 bikes or RV....without having to pay for all those speed bleeders.

Cool! You need to change your avatar to Albert Einstein 




-Mike

[Yfx4]

Ha!@!!


The picture is what I did.  short section of silicone hose to connect to the reg bleeder. TyWrap to hold it on. Longer section to the empty peanut butter jar collection tank.

Drilled a little hole in the base of the speed bleeder so it would work in the hose.

Not my idea. I got it from Mike "Barass" Buras

[cogsman]

What make and size of speed bleeder did you use?

[Bone]

I like that I'm always looking to modify things to fit my needs.

[Bambam650]

Why do you need to drill out the base of the SB?  What does that do?

Thanks

[Yfx4]

When I get home later I will take pictures and let you know what I did.....why it is drilled will become apparent.