Leading link front end

[dreamchaser]

Does anyone make one of these for our Valks?  I thought I remembered seeing a Valk sidecar for sale with one of these.  Thx. Gary

[pago cruiser]

I believe Unit in the UK still makes them custom,  About $2500 plus shipping when I checked last for my GL1200 maybe 3-4 years ago.

Wasp motorcycles in the UK also makes them custom.  Had them make a set for my XR1200 a couple years ago.  A little more than the Unit guys, but they look a lot less...kludgy.  Recommended, but it takes a few months.

I think that DMC in WA also makes them custom.

Would love to hear if you follow through with this.  Almost have our Valk/Motorvation Hack on the road, and am thinking about the leading links.  I went a temp solution with 6 degree trees and 1" over fork extenders.  It should work out, but I tend to push rigs hard, and leading links are the ultimate.  It's spooky seeing lateral fork deflection on 80 mph sweepers... 

[dreamchaser]

Thank you for the reply, P.C.  I just happen to be torn between the design of their hack and your Motorvation Spider.  It looks to me that our dog would have an easier time getting in and out of their design with that cut down sort of doorway without damaging the paint.  I just might give them a call to arrange a tour and a sit down.  They aren't that awful far away from me.  I'll let you know what happens.         Gary

[pago cruiser]

Actually its a Formula II, but no matter.  LOTS more storage though.

The dogs (2 now, in series) have never had a problem getting into or out of.  Motorvation also makes a FII model whereas the front end tilts to allow easy access for a person... or a canine.

One thing I did do was apply nonslid on the top surface of their jump-in point.  Seems to help.  I'm at work right now so don't have access to pics at home.  But I can post a pic of the non-skid later tonight.

[pago cruiser]

Forgot the hack pics with the nonskid - I'll try again later.

But I do have some pics of the LLs that Wasp did for me on the XR.  Wasp did not invent these... but they have been doing them for decades.  Here's their site:
http://www.waspmotorcycles.com/index.html


True Leading Link porn...







These had 5" of travel.  I'm thinking the Valk would be about the same.  I have emailed them to see if they have done a set for a Valk.  Will let you know what I find out.

[dreamchaser]

Is that XR as in XR 1200?  My imagination is seeing that fork set in pearl white and chrome to match my Valk. 

I really appreciate all this leg work you are doing for me.  I just hope after all the research is in that it is a project I can afford to tackle.  Sometimes our wants, dreams and ideas get ahead of us.

[pago cruiser]

Yep.  XR1200, prolly the best bike HD ever made.  The V-Rod (un-arguably) had the better engine, but then they wrapped it in the typical HD Barca Lounger looks and ergonomics.  MEH

Your post just got me thinking about this again - actually thanks for getting me back on track.  I did get an email back from Wasp.  They have indeed done a  Valk previously.  He is trying to find some pics.  I found an older (2011) price list, and it listed GL1500 LL's at 900 "lbs"; sorry, I can't do their goofy $ sign.  At the current conversion rate (about 1.5), call it $1400; shipping (IIRC) was about $400 US.  All told, that's a pretty good deal.  When I did the XR, between the exchange and the fact that they had not done an XR, everything ran about $2500.  I had to actually mail my forks over there so they could get lengths and everything dialed in to match.  There were also some really great guys on the XR forum who actually took their XR's over to Wasp for other measurements.  "Located just a bit down the road from Stonehenge..."

Anyhow, here's a pic of what it looks like on the XR.  May need to do something on the trees though.  IIRC, max tube size Wasp can do is 1.6".  We ended up with about 1/8" inserts to make them work with the XR USD fork diameter.   

[dreamchaser]

What a great looking rig.  I'll bet you did push that one pretty hard.  Do you still have it?  Looks like a sport rig, not a cruiser.  Gary

[pago cruiser]

Thanks.  Well, we ride em.  On the XR, that means 75-80 mph going down the freeway, and then 5-15mph on fireroads a few hundred miles from home.  We did the first 2 legs of the CDR (Continental Divide Ride) two years ago; the Mexican Border to Pie Town.  Hopefully the next 2 this fall.  I have learned to ensure any hill we have to go down that I can make back up...   I also carry a spare clutch, tools, and oil these days...

Anyhow, I stopped by my local Indy Goldwing shop after work today, and they had a GL1500 in for service - with  Unit LL's!  As you can see, they are functional, if a bit cruder than the Wasp flavor. 



Nothing yet from Mark at Wasp.  Hopefully next week. 

[dreamchaser]

Fit and finish on the Wasp forks is way beyond the Unit set-up.  Looks more dedicated and not so universal.

What is your comparative evaluation on LL to telescopic forks for just the bike/no car?  I think I will need to take this in steps, but still want to ride waiting for the hack.

Gary

[pago cruiser]

Unless you are into vintage MX...


no need for LL's on a solo bike.  Greeves was one of the last holdouts of LL's, and they changed in maybe mid 60's from LL's to telescopic forks. 

One thing though; once you have installed either raked trees or a leading link for the necessary trail reduction, the bike (with no hack attached) is ill suited for solo riding.  At speed it can be dangerous.   

Having done this a few times the "less than efficient" way... I'd ride it solo until you get your hardware (hack with raked trees, or hack with LL's).  Then install your fork changes, and then the hack, in that order.

If you have not already checked it out, sidecar.com is a hack specific site with a lot of friendly folks on it and a wealth of data. 

[pago cruiser]

Finally got some Valk Leading Link pics from Wasp.

Mark mentioned these were a bit older, and still have the "straight" swingarm; all their current models have the curved version, like on the XR above.







Since they are building from scratch, this would also be the time to pick up a set of VTX1800 (the same as ST1100 ABS) calipers and them build to that bolt pattern.  Would not cost anything extra to fit the brackets.

Here is the current price list as well:



I still need to clarify some items for pricing; I'll post back with what I find out.  I am going to gather my ST1100 calipers and get boxed...

[indybobm]

You might want to check out the August 2015 edition of Motorcyclist on page 18. Looks like Honda is coming out with one for an upcoming Gold Wing.

[pago cruiser]

Thanks for the tip. Finally got around to looking at my copy...Holy moley!  What a change for big red.  It's like a leading link, but a bit, make that a lot more sophisticated.  This weekend I'll scan the article and post. For those 3 guys on the forum interested in leading links...

[dreamchaser]

I would really like to thank you guys for adding to my education.  I guess I was just lucky to have my last Harley (87 FXRS Low rider) give me no problems whatsoever With a sidecar and the stock forks with no rake.  Especially since I completely re-did the frame of the hack, it's suspension, changed the wheel and axle for a Harley rear wheel with the proper axle and bearings and set it up myself.

I am going about it completely different this time.  Keep the educational materials coming!  (please?)

[Grumpy]

If you are really ambitious, build one. I built this for my trike, this is the fourth one I have fabbed up, steers great, almost like power steering. Also very soft ride. The way the caliper is positioned it tends to raise the front under hard braking, so no diving.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks for the tip. Finally got around to looking at my copy...Holy moley!  What a change for big red.  It's like a leading link, but a bit, make that a lot more sophisticated.  This weekend I'll scan the article and post. For those 3 guys on the forum interested in leading links...

Make that 4 guys 

[pago cruiser]

Grumpy - that is an impressive bit of work.  A couple years ago I started laying out the forks for the XR after those guys in Canada (who shall go nameless... ) screwed me on my schedule.  I realized rather quickly that my fab skills would be tested in a manner I did not have time for.  The Wasp guys did an outstanding job, with tooling that does not even exist (a mandrel bender) in the town I live...

Ok, for the FOUR guys  interested... in the new GL1800 Leading Link... (pinched from the Goldwing Docs forum)



Maybe it will become real, maybe not.  If it does, adaption to a hack would prolly be a bit of effort, what with the telelever strut mods, as well as pricey. It appears to be cast aluminum members as well.  Highly loaded aluminum is tricky to engineer correctly the first time; remember the GL1800 frame debacle?

What I find titillating (love that word  ) is the new, almost svelte looking fairing with what looks like an electric windshield.  That looks a natural to be modded to the new Valks.  The radiator grille looks the same, but with a slightly different cover than then merges with the fairing; which looks a lot smaller than the current GL1800 flavor.   The new Valks are enticing; while the big shoulder look I could get used to, not having ANY type of a fairing is just a deal breaker.  I'm too old to ride sans fairing, as a good part of my daily commute is 80 mph.  And the several trips per year we take all have a good bit of high speed distances.  I think Honda really screwed the pooch by not having any kind of fairing available; and the stock or aftermarket windscreens all look like a$$... 

It would appear the new fairing cribs from the ... IMHO, goofy...CTX 1300; which has a fairing about 2/3 scale of the GL1800 IIRC.  CTX 1300 fairing:

   

Big enough for good wind and most rain protection (like my cut down 2000 IS fairing), but small enough to not feel that you are riding behind the windshield of a Prius...

All that said, think I'm going to give Wasp a call next week and get em going.  We have a 5000 mile trip coming in early October, and it would be nice to have the LL's for the journey.

[pago cruiser]

Back to Leading Link stuff...

Dreamchaser - that sound like a lot of experience there.  Don't know how you did it with stock forks though.  All the rigs I have put together (KLR 650, Triumph T-Bird, GL1200, XR1200) have been really tough to muscle around without some type of trail reduction.  Isn't setting these up a hoot?    It's like being a wizard of alchemy; a bit of a lost art, with a lot of attention to detail required that no one will ever see.  Wifey will sometimes come out when I am working, and asks "how many more times are you going to adjust that?"...   

Found this this afternoon.  Seems Wasp has down some GL1800 LL's as well; and with a bit more effort, you can go true darkside on the front!





Looks like they are using a centerline wheel.  I sent Wasp an email Thursday to advise that I wanted to get this started.  Now I may have to mod it a bit and try to find a Centerline wheel; or something else...  I just did a quick check, and the rear 16" Valk rim with an Austone CT is identical in height to the Valk front wheel with a Dunlop.  Wonder what would be cheaper?  Purchasing a centerline rim and then modding for Valk rotors, or cutting a Valk front wheel hub out and welding to a 16" rear rim?  Hopefully I can get some answers from Wasp early next week.

This outta be fun...

[dreamchaser]

I mis-spoke about Stock forks on my FXRS Lowrider.  I got rid of the narrow glide it came with for a FXWG dual disk and changed the springs to FLH by Progressive.  That could be the secret (even from me) 


I would rather have the setup shown with their front split rim and brake.  Probably only about $500 difference from inventing a Valk hybrid front wheel and brake system.  Safety factor is free.

[Lonerbtw]

 I posted awhile back about wanting to build a LL for one of my trikes. I was planning on one like Grumpy built and was trying to figure out how to put a CT on it with duel disks but could not find one small enough. I think that I have changed my mind when I seen the set up on that beautiful Valk that Wasp built. It is not that I am cheap but I enjoy the challange of the build. I have built 3 Valk trikes myself and now looking at changing mine just because I can. I like different. What do you think about using a swing arm for the cradle and building off of it? I am also planning on building intake manafolds for 2 carbs on the outside of the tank. Hope you all have a great 4th and be careful out there.
  Loner

[pago cruiser]

Dreamchaser - Tru dat.  But Kosman (since bought out by another guy, Custom Metal Spinning, here: http://www.custommetalspinning.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1836) has been welding different rims to hubs for quite awhile.  Exquisite welding.  I would not have a problem with the safety or longevity of their products. 

While it would have been nice to maintain the stock wheel "look" (via a rear rim grafted onto a front hub), I'd bet a Centerline type would weigh a lot less.

Spoke to Wasp last week, and the Trike LL's actually have a slightly adjustable bit of trail.  The swingarm pivot actually is an eccentric.  Always nice to have adjustment.  I also sent them the pattern for the VTX brakes, so should be able to incorporate those as well. 

Loner BTW - If you are talking of using the stock Valk swingarm, I believe it is way too heavy, and long.  Making your own LL's would certainly be a challenge...  Just the bending of tubes takes equipment most folks don't have access to - like a mandrel bender; and pretty good welding/fab skills.  Had a friend here who made his own LLs for a Suzi B-King a couple years ago.  Actually, the rake/trail issues were unknown enough that he had the shop (in Phoenix, about 100 miles away) make 3 sets of tubes - each a degree apart, IIRC.  I am so slow doing fab stuff that I would have more errors than progress  ...  While I eventually get things sorted out, I always end up bumping into that pesky law of diminishing returns   ...     
 

[Lonerbtw]

Can't use Valk swing arm being shaft drive. But any smaller chain drive would work. Like the blue bike in this post. If I could find one about the rite size it would have all or most of the hangers and pivet points to work with.
  Loner

[storch]

I bought an 8 degree set of triple trees from vt-xtreme(meancycles) for US$ 625.00.Put them on my 1997 Valkyrie with home built sidecar.Stable and steady at all speeds.No headshake at all.Some effort required on left turns.Will eventually put in a bit more leanout.Daryl at Vt-xtreme was very easy to deal with and very prompt.

Gary

[Lonerbtw]

 I have 2 other Valk trikes both with Daryl's 6 degree trees. Love them and he is a great guy to work with. I am just looking at doing something different because I can.
 Loner

[pago cruiser]

Time to update this thread:
They're on the way....





That's the good news. 

Bad news is that my work has been real squirrelly lately.  Have worked the last couple weekends and it looks like at least another couple more to get out of a big hole we are in.  So have not had time to finish getting the rig ready; which means we have had to cancel an upcoming cross country trip we have been planning for months... GRRRRR.   

Sigh.  Anybody remember the SNAFU acronym???

At least now I'll have some time to trial fit and decide and implement powder, paint, or chrome in time for a Thanksgiving trip somewhere...

 

[indybobm]

SNAFU - Situation Normal All F**ked Up

[DK]

Time to update this thread:
They're on the way....





That's the good news. 

Bad news is that my work has been real squirrelly lately.  Have worked the last couple weekends and it looks like at least another couple more to get out of a big hole we are in.  So have not had time to finish getting the rig ready; which means we have had to cancel an upcoming cross country trip we have been planning for months... GRRRRR.   

Sigh.  Anybody remember the SNAFU acronym???

At least now I'll have some time to trial fit and decide and implement powder, paint, or chrome in time for a Thanksgiving trip somewhere...

 

I understand you ordered the leading link from Wasp in England.

Be aware that my brother purchased a +/- $15,000.00 aftermarket suspension from a British fabricator for a MGA restoration project. After paying to clear the parts through customs, etc., to his great surprise he received an unequivocal letter together with a notice of  sales tax, penalties, and other fees due from the Department of Finance & Administration of the State of Arkansas.

Had he been aware of this, it would have been possible to invoice the parts as used with an understated invoice thus avoiding an unexpected additional 14% on the transaction.

Arizona may be different but it is doubtful as this sort of thing is usually based on an interstate compact or Uniform Laws among all or most states.

Dan

[pago cruiser]

Dan,

Thanks for the info.  Sounds like Arkansas is in need of your money...

I did an earlier order with Wasp a few years ago, and no surprises at that time.  Used my works Fed X account.  Was a bit pricey (about $450 IIRC) but it was here in 4 days.  I was astounded.

This time they are shipping... well, I don't really know how.  But he quoted me about $250 US, and a week delivery.

Guess I'll find out in a week or so...