Broken Third O-Ring (Twice)

[vanagon40]

So when I removed the rear tire at 37,000 miles, I saw that the “elusive third o-ring” was broken.  The o-ring was still in its track, so I am not sure if it was broken before I removed the wheel, or if it broke when I removed the wheel.  Ordinarily, I would not be too concerned, but this is the second time.  Previously, I lubed the splines at 9,000 miles and 20,000 miles, without problems.  At 21,000 I removed the rear tire to patch a hole, and everything looked fine so simply put the wheel back in place.  At 26,000 miles, I heard an abnormal noise in the rear, so I removed the wheel and found that the third o-ring was broken.  I relubed the splines, replaced all the o-rings, and put everything back together.

Fast forward to 2015, I pulled the rear wheel and again I find the third o-ring is broken.   Any ideas why this might have happened twice in a row?

I pulled the rear wheel not only because it was time for a spline relube, but because I needed to replace the rear brakes and tire.  I was actually a few miles late on replacing the bake pads.



I’m sure I could have managed a few more miles out of the rear tire, but I figured with the tread wear bars showing, I would replace it with the same General Altimax.



The splines were drier than I would have liked, but show very little wear.



The pinion cup was wet with oil, so I did nothing to service that joint.  Since there is nothing to service on the U-joint, I ignored it.

While removed, I polished my shocks.



I static balanced the tire tonight, so I should ready to put everything back together.  I did drain the rear gear oil to be replaced before I get back in the saddle.

Again, let me know if you have any ideas about my twice broken o-ring.

[Pappy!]

Lack of a thrust washer?
Was the o-ring just broken or was it smashed looking? Pic might help....you took pics of everything but the topic !

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't know why they broke. I suspect it happens when reinstalling the wheel. I'm drooling over your Works shocks. How are you liking them ?

[Valkpilot]

According to Red Eye, if you don't insert the hub straight into the wheel spline cup, you risk cutting that o-ring on assembly.

In fact the last time I serviced my rear drive, I found the 3rd O-ring broken exactly as described by Red Eye.

I began paying attention and it's easy to insert the hub at an angle.  You have to think consciously about it to make sure you shove it straight in.

I've started using Red Eye's polyurethane rings and have put them in three bikes so far.  They make it a little harder to install the hub in the spline cup, but my experience installing them has not been as negative as some who have tried them.

[The emperor has no clothes]

According to Red Eye, if you don't insert the hub straight into the wheel spline cup, you risk cutting that o-ring on assembly.

In fact the last time I serviced my rear drive, I found the 3rd O-ring broken exactly as described by Red Eye.

I began paying attention and it's easy to insert the hub at an angle.  You have to think consciously about it to make sure you shove it straight in.

I've started using Red Eye's polyurethane rings and have put them in three bikes so far.  They make it a little harder to install the hub in the spline cup, but my experience installing them has not been as negative as some who have tried them.

Do you think they are more durable? I've been using rings from Carolina Bike & Trike.

[Valkpilot]

Do you think they are more durable? I've been using rings from Carolina Bike & Trike.

Yes.  Polyurethane is pretty tough stuff.  If you read Red Eye's literature, he explains why it holds up better than the other rings, but one of the main things is that it's more cut resistant.  The possible downside is that the material is not as compressible and so makes reassembly harder.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Do you think they are more durable? I've been using rings from Carolina Bike & Trike.

Yes.  Polyurethane is pretty tough stuff.  If you read Red Eye's literature, he explains why it holds up better than the other rings, but one of the main things is that it's more cut resistant.  The possible downside is that the material is not as compressible and so makes reassembly harder.

I think I'll give them a shot 

[vanagon40]

According to Red Eye, if you don't insert the hub straight into the wheel spline cup, you risk cutting that o-ring on assembly.

In fact the last time I serviced my rear drive, I found the 3rd O-ring broken exactly as described by Red Eye.

I began paying attention and it's easy to insert the hub at an angle.  You have to think consciously about it to make sure you shove it straight in.

I've started using Red Eye's polyurethane rings and have put them in three bikes so far.  They make it a little harder to install the hub in the spline cup, but my experience installing them has not been as negative as some who have tried them.

After looking at the links and photos, I'm sure that is what happened.  I did attempt to put the wheel straight into the housing this time.  I guess I'll find out next lube time (or sooner if the o-ring is broken and starts making noise).  Thanks for the very informative response.

[vanagon40]

I don't know why they broke. I suspect it happens when reinstalling the wheel. I'm drooling over your Works shocks. How are you liking them ?

I really like the Works shocks.  I put a pair of Progressive 440 shocks on in 2007.  However, they were not the ones with heavy duty springs and the bottomed out with my wife on the back (I won't go into detail on the exact weights, but we were well over 400 lbs.)

A year later I sold the Progressives and purchased the Works.  I have had no problems at all in 6 years (22,000 miles).

[Jess from VA]

What I have not done before, but plan to do from now on, is to pull the axle enough to remove the caliper and spacer, then stick it back through to separate the pumpkin from the wheel, and on reassembly, use the axle again to mate the pumpkin and wheel, and then pull the axle out enough to instal the spacer and caliper next.  I think this method is not only easier on my one-man old-back work, but will serve to get the pumpkin-wheel straight-in alignment stab, so as not to damage the Oring. 

[mellowyellow#7933]

Jess is right. Install axle through wheel then slide assembly into pumpkin. I had several broken O-rings prior to doing it this way. I knew I had broken them on installation as some of the pieces were at the bottom of the cavity where the flange slides in.

[Tfrank59]

Do you think they are more durable? I've been using rings from Carolina Bike & Trike.

Yes.  Polyurethane is pretty tough stuff.  If you read Red Eye's literature, he explains why it holds up better than the other rings, but one of the main things is that it's more cut resistant.  The possible downside is that the material is not as compressible and so makes reassembly harder.

I think I'll give them a shot 

I bought the redeye o rings, and they held up better than Regular nitrile ones.  In their write up, redeye says their polyurethane O rings will hold up even if you do happen to get it crooked and pinch it on assembly.  But putting the axle through the pumpkin first to line everything up for assembly is definitely the way to go.