petcock problem

[zzed28]

 Search is not working for me here,,, I dont know why.

My petcock has been acting wrong here,, I pulled the tank off, the petcock off to change a filter.  I discovered after testing that my petcock is allowing gas to go thru even when turned OFF,, and with no vac at all.  I do have a kit here, but it looks like my kit is missing a part or parts, when compared to my petcock, as do all the k n l kits pictured on line.   I can take off my screws and spring and cover, take the hard plastic piece out, then pull the on hte diaphragm, and its attached to something steel, and rubber, neither of which parts are in the kit. I see there are rivets on the other side of the petcock, what should I do next. The only other thing that I have done so far, is stretch the spring a little as I saw on the video, that actually seemed to make things worse.  Help Please.

[Daniel Meyer]

K&N kit doesn't work. Get the OEM...having said that...that gas will flow with the valve in the OFF position ALSO says the valve side of your petcock is bad and that's not addressed in the kits. You need the entire petcock.

[zzed28]

Can you be specific about what the problem is about the K n L kit?    In the latest tests that I did in the kitchen, water flows thru, with and with out vaccuum when in ON or RESERVE, but not when shut off.  I wonder if I was testing it right before.

[zzed28]

K/ L kit is what I meant to say, not K and N. Is the KL kit ok or ,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Daniel Meyer]

My experience is that the aftermarket kits do not work...the parts are often just "not quite" to spec...and especially if they don't include the cover (vacuum side) as for the valk specifically, that cover has a dampener in it (to mitigate vacuum pulses from our aggressive cam) and is subject to clogging or other failure.

And yep, K&L sorry...

[PharmBoy]

I can tell you for sure that the cheap imitation petcocks made in China are trash before you install them.  I recently installed two of them on someone elses' bike and they both leaked.  The purchase of an OEM petcock solved the problem.  We just cannot expect the rubber parts of our bikes to last forever.  It is just the price we pay for riding the best cruiser on the road, even though it may be 20 years old.  Another plus is that our bikes usually cost less than 25% of most of the other brands' bikes and will keep running for at least twice as many miles...Jim

[sandy]

Can you be specific about what the problem is about the K n L kit?    In the latest tests that I did in the kitchen, water flows thru, with and with out vaccuum when in ON or RESERVE, but not when shut off.  I wonder if I was testing it right before.

Your mechanical side is fine. Order a new "cover set" from an OEM supplier. I have no exp with KnL kits.

[zzed28]

Ok, well I put the bike together, tried to put a new filter in, and I just could not squeeze it in, so now I have non filtered gas going into a bike that has a petcock that flows continuously if in on,, or reserve. Lets pray that I dont screw up and forget to turn the gas off before I get a new oem kit.  I actually wonder how long this has been going on,, I know when I assembled the bike this spring, I checked the petcock with my mity vac and it worked as it should.  Right now, I dont even have the vaccuum hooked up, just got it bolted off line til I get an oem kit.  Thanks for the help guys, will get the kit and let you know how it works out.  I really would like to get a filter in that area, but havent  found one short enough yet.

[Bighead]

Dude don't be stupid fix the problems then ride.

[Ricky-D]

There's a potential HYDROLOCK in the waiting.

***

[Patrick]

Well, just tap the start button. If it CLANKS, don't touch that button again until you pull the sparklers and clear the cylinders.

[zzed28]

Relax guys, its parked with the fuel shut off, and yes, I knew about the tap procedure, but thanks for the reminder.   It wont be ridden until I get the kit and have it in. I had to get it off the rack to work on another bike.  Who know  s maybe I iwll have the bandit done tonight.  Thanks guys, I am just wondering how I managed to miss the fact that K n L kits are no good.  With all the reading that I have done here since winter, seems like I would have come across that info before now.  Its only recently that I found that I had this petcock problem, I dont know how long its been going on, but I do know that when I assembled the bike this spring, that petcock was checked for vaccum and it worked right. I wonder how it is, that someone hasnt come up with a simple way to add a filter and an auxiliary petcock to this bike. Every other thing I own has both, and there is plenty of room to add them. That area is so jammed up on this bike that I am going to look into finding one of those flat filters, that is extremely short to add into it.  I know RJ doesnt like anything added into that fuel system, but it seems to me that a decent filter is critical.

[Dusty]

Read this thread.   http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,72358.0.html

 Read and understand the post's by Dusty. It may solve your problem   

Dusty

[zzed28]

QUOTE from other thread by Dusty,,,,,,I just barely sucked on it just like I do every time I test one when cleaning the air filter and such. This one felt perfect...except. I MAY have felt it kind of "unstick" when I applied the vacuum. (I may just be imagining that after the fact and having it stick open.)
After this incident, I did get my MiniVac and apply about 3/4 inch of vacuum to the valve and let it set with no loss of vacuum pressure after almost five minutes.   UNQUOTE

I guess I went about the testing all wrong, not knowing that more than just a tiny bit of vacuum would damage parts.  Thinking that the engine may put out fifteen or nineteen inches of vac, I did not spare the amount of vac at all, just gave the mity vac one pump and tested.  So,,,,,it appears I may have done damage by my testing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and,,, sadly,,,, I may very well have done the same thing to the bandit petcock last night.  I did recheck it, and it still functioned though, so maybe I got away with it.  

[Daniel Meyer]

No, you're not going to damage it with excessive vacuum.

There's a filter in the tank, pull it out/clean or replace when you remove petcock. You don't need one after the petcock. More problems than potential benefit.

[Paladin528]

I removed the inline filter that was installed in my I/S.  In my readings I found more info that said it wasnt necessary so its gone. 

[zzed28]

Hi Dan,   Yes Ive already cleaned that in tank filter.  Since the hydrolock is such a problem , I figure if its possible,, to fit another filter, but wont be doing it right now.   Ive got my oem cover kit ordered, should have that by thurs prolly, its just coming from Toledo.  My petcock is now wanting vacuum to work, so last night I tore things down and hooked up the vac line to it, so I guess thats one more fail safe in place.  I will still shut fuel off all the time, am just paranoid about the hydrolock thing now.  Some folks who think that a fuel pump is a true fail safe, should read about the yami venture ,, with a fuel pump, that somehow hydrolocked, who knows, could have been coolant maybe,,, the engine was never really right after that but the guy kept riding it, put a rod thru the block a couple of months later.

[Ricky-D]

Gas filters are only remotely connected to a hydrolock situation.

***

[westnek]

hello riders= my thinking is // would it be wise to convert the pet rooster to a manual situation and using the OEM pet rooster?? I have read here somewhere that ==removing vacuum line. and piercing a small hole in the  rubber diaphragm will do it ,,am I correct in this OR what other procedures must one take to convert this item to manual operation  Thank You west

[The emperor has no clothes]

hello riders= my thinking is // would it be wise to convert the pet rooster to a manual situation and using the OEM pet rooster?? I have read here somewhere that ==removing vacuum line. and piercing a small hole in the  rubber diaphragm will do it ,,am I correct in this OR what other procedures must one take to convert this item to manual operation  Thank You west

I wouldn't do it. I've got 80k on Valkyries with only one cover set repair.

[Gryphon Rider]

hello riders= my thinking is // would it be wise to convert the pet rooster to a manual situation and using the OEM pet rooster?? I have read here somewhere that ==removing vacuum line. and piercing a small hole in the  rubber diaphragm will do it ,,am I correct in this OR what other procedures must one take to convert this item to manual operation  Thank You west

The only good reason to do this is if the vacuum diaphragm is leaking and not opening your fuel valve as it should, and then only as a temporary measure to get you going until you either replace the diaphragm or the whole valve.

[John Schmidt]

You all need to get Grumpy(Bill Gurney) to tell you how to make a better version of converting the OEM to manual. He can explain it better than I can. I don't have a stock petcock in front of me so goin by memory, on my last visit with Bill he showed me what he does. Takes it apart, tosses all the guts....everything! Installs an O-ring in the outer collar and another smaller one somewhere else but I forget just where/how without a unit in front of me. Then block off the drip tube and vacuum tube and you have a totally manual OEM petcock. The only moving parts are the internal piece that moves when you turn the control.

[Ricky-D]

And that still, is not much of an improvement. Reason being that the "off" is not a positive feel such as a stopcock

which has the "off" at the end of the movement instead of the OEM which has the "off" between the "on" and

the "reserve" in which case you may think it's on "off" but in reality it still is dripping a few drops. That's all that

is needed for a "hydrolock", a few drops a minute. A petcock such as the Pingle has the "off" in the correct relationship

when you move the lever. Move the lever all the way and it is "off", that's for sure.

***

[Valkpilot]

And that still, is not much of an improvement. Reason being that the "off" is not a positive feel such as a stopcock

which has the "off" at the end of the movement instead of the OEM which has the "off" between the "on" and

the "reserve" in which case you may think it's on "off" but in reality it still is dripping a few drops. That's all that

is needed for a "hydrolock", a few drops a minute. A petcock such as the Pingle has the "off" in the correct relationship

when you move the lever. Move the lever all the way and it is "off", that's for sure.

***

I have no problem with either of my OEM petcocks with the feel of them "clicking" into the correct position.  The spring-ball-detent system provides very positive feedback when it is in the intended position.

The only time I've found that not to be true was on a petcock that was mis-aligned with the knob.  Put together correctly, there should be no doubt when you are in the correct position.

[John Schmidt]

And that still, is not much of an improvement. Reason being that the "off" is not a positive feel such as a stopcock

which has the "off" at the end of the movement instead of the OEM which has the "off" between the "on" and

the "reserve" in which case you may think it's on "off" but in reality it still is dripping a few drops. That's all that

is needed for a "hydrolock", a few drops a minute. A petcock such as the Pingle has the "off" in the correct relationship

when you move the lever. Move the lever all the way and it is "off", that's for sure.

***

Ricky, Bill has his installed with a DanMarc shut off as do I. I currently have a Pingel with the DanMarc and an inline filter so doubt I'll ever change back to the OEM with a conversion. Might carry one on a trip as a backup but doubt I would ever need it.

[doubletee]

And that still, is not much of an improvement. Reason being that the "off" is not a positive feel such as a stopcock

which has the "off" at the end of the movement instead of the OEM which has the "off" between the "on" and

the "reserve" in which case you may think it's on "off" but in reality it still is dripping a few drops. That's all that

is needed for a "hydrolock", a few drops a minute. A petcock such as the Pingle has the "off" in the correct relationship

when you move the lever. Move the lever all the way and it is "off", that's for sure.

***

I have no problem with either of my OEM petcocks with the feel of them "clicking" into the correct position.  The spring-ball-detent system provides very positive feedback when it is in the intended position.

The only time I've found that not to be true was on a petcock that was mis-aligned with the knob.  Put together correctly, there should be no doubt when you are in the correct position.

+1   

[xman]

A few more questions, because I haven't done any of this, and need to.
I thought the on / off / reserve switch was independent of the vacuum diaphragm system. True?

At the "man" Daniel's tech session he explained the diaphragm would show a small vacuum leak when it was begining to fail.  But you had some time, or very little time because it may not be enough of a leak to prevent it from working. He went on to say replace it with the, I think he said it was the OEM cover kit. Does some one has the part number for this?

What's your routine to test the diaphragm? I'm thinking of sucking on the hose and seeing if I can detect leak. Is there a hand vacuum pump to do this? What's the most  negative vacuum pressure you should test the diaphragm with.

Thanks for any help Tom