Did I just mess up my valves?

[heavyd]

When I replaced my timing belts last winter my bearings weren't bad, but they did have a very slight vibration that has been in the back of my mind ever since. So I did my research on replacing them with  Gates bearings and did that today. I thought I was being smart and zip-tied my belts to the wheels so that they couldn't jump a tooth out of time. Made sure that the timing marks on the outside were lined up correctly before I started and after I finished but totally forgot about the timing mark on the center pulley. I was turning it over by hand and got some resistance, thought it was just compression so I pulled all the spark plugs and tried again. Still a bit more pressure than I expected, then it seemed to bind solid. At which point I stopped, went back to my book, remembered the center timing mark and got everything lined up correctly and made sure everything was moving freely by hand.

I had a slight vibration from the engine before all this that I didn't really like, and finding it was also on my to do list. Occasionally when I was stopped at a stop light I though I could hear a tick at idle but when I got home it was never there. I thought maybe I had a carb out of balance or a vacuum leak somewhere and didn't stress about it.

Now today, I fired it back up and I hear this.

https://youtu.be/v_LeR7leBR4

Did I just mess up some valves? And if I did, does anyone have a good guide on how to re-adjust them? I've spent years on this forum and valves aren't a subject I have ever seen much about.

[heavyd]

Forgot to mention that this is a 97, with 126k km on it. I have had it for the last 55k km, and my father had it for 30k before that and the valves have never been touched in all that time.

[Grandpot]

Do a compression check.  If the valves are damaged, you will know right away.  If the compression is low on one or more cylinders, it's time for a valve job.

If you are lucky, that tick is just a tappet or exhaust gasket leak.  Exhaust gasket leaks sound almost identical to tappets.

[heavyd]

Looks like I am going to go buy a compression gauge. If I am reading the manual right, it says to remove all the spark plug wires before you crank it over. I always thought that was really bad for your coil if there was no where for the spark to go? And the reading on all cylinders should be 171 lbs? Sometimes the values have been "updated" in the last 20 years, such as the valve clearance measurements and I want to make sure I am up to date.

[Patrick]

Remove all the plugs and wires. Ground the plug wires.
The compression readings will/should be lower than 170# when cold. The key is that they all be almost equal, within about 10#.
If you didn't start the engine with the belts off a tooth or so, it shouldn't hurt anything unless it really took some force to turn the engine over with the wrench.
The compression is quick and easy and it'll let you know if there is a problem.

[BonS]

. . . and open the throttle while cranking to give your cylinders all the air they can inhale for the compression test.

[john]

sounds like a spark jump ... look at in in the dark    ???            

[Chrisj CMA]

Sounds like a couple bent valves

[gordonv]

Have you re-inspected all your timing marks after you got the bike running again? I would start there.

[heavyd]

Thanks for all the information everyone. I got a compression tester and i will check it tomorrow. I will check for spark jump as well, that would have to be a crack in a plug wire or something right?  Bent valves? Wouldn't that take a lot or force, more then i would have applied by hand? All the timing marks looked correct again to me, but I can take some pictures tomorrow.

[heavyd]

Checked for spark jump before I turned the lights on, and I couldn't see any sign of a spark. Pulled the timing belt cover back off and took some pictures. It looks like the right hand pulley is off about half a tooth, but it has always been like that and if I move it a tooth, it will just be off half a tooth in the other direction right?





Heading back out now to do the compression test.

These pictures are from last fall, the first time the cover was ever off of the timing belts and you can see the 1/4-1/2 a tooth off.

[heavyd]

I dont think i like these numbers.

1 110psi
2 150psi
3 120ps
4 145psi
5 120psi
6 150psi

But they make me think that it is timing instead of an individual valve problem. Ideas?

[Ricky-D]

Everything looks fine according to the pictures.

***

[Ricky-D]

I dont think i like these numbers.

1 110psi
2 150psi
3 120ps
4 145psi
5 120psi
6 150psi

But they make me think that it is timing instead of an individual valve problem. Ideas?

Are you doing the test with the bike upright?  Stand the bike upright and turn the motor over some before testing. By your figures then right side bank is all low and the left side is similarly grouped but higher figures. I'd think you can assume the difference is related to the engine being tilted from the bike on the side stand.

***

[heavyd]

Yes, it was on the side stand, i wondered if that might be a factor.

I just restested the right side with a board under the stand, which doesn't make it perfectly vertical but makes it close enough a strong breeze would blow it over. All three numbers were exactly the same.

[Michvalk]

Those numbers make me think head gasket. I can't believe that valves would be bent in all three cylinders, not turning it by hand. You may have to get in there to find out for sure

[Patrick]

It sure doesn't seem as though a valve is 'warped'.
The bike should be as upright as possible. Start it up and warm it up a little bit, squirt a little oil in the right side holes and try the test again.

[slabghost]

All the plugs are out and throttle wide open doing the test?

[heavyd]

All plugs out and grounded against the engine, engine cold, bike very nearly vertical, throttle held wide open. Rolled over half a dozen times until the gauge stopped climbing each time. If i pull the valve cover to have a look, what are the odds i can reuse that gasket?

[The emperor has no clothes]

All plugs out and grounded against the engine, engine cold, bike very nearly vertical, throttle held wide open. Rolled over half a dozen times until the gauge stopped climbing each time. If i pull the valve cover to have a look, what are the odds i can reuse that gasket?

no problem 

[Ricky-D]

Do nothing! You have no problem with that area of the engine (pistons, valves, heads, cylinders) everything is fine.

Look elsewhere if you still think you have a problem.

***

[heavyd]

Do nothing! You have no problem with that area of the engine (pistons, valves, heads, cylinders) everything is fine.

Look elsewhere if you still think you have a problem.

***

I like that opinion Ricky, lol, but do you have a suggestion where i should be looking because when i follow the sound thats where it took me.

[heavyd]

I just pulled the right valve cover and checked all the valves. Everything seemed fine, .006 a little loose .007 a little tight, same with .009 .010 on the exhaust side. I also borrowed a stethoscope to try to pinpoint the sound but it seems consistant across all 3 cylinders. I rechecked my intake and exhaust bolts and everything was tight but i notice the number 1 header is getting pretty rough. Could the noise be an exhaust leak and is there any way to test that?  I tried feeling for air and listening with my head under the bike but that didn t help

[Patrick]

I just pulled the right valve cover and checked all the valves. Everything seemed fine, .006 a little loose .007 a little tight, same with .009 .010 on the exhaust side. I also borrowed a stethoscope to try to pinpoint the sound but it seems consistant across all 3 cylinders. I rechecked my intake and exhaust bolts and everything was tight but i notice the number 1 header is getting pretty rough. Could the noise be an exhaust leak and is there any way to test that?  I tried feeling for air and listening with my head under the bike but that didn t help

The exhaust gaskets leaks don't sound like an exhaust leak, more of a tick. The retainers just being tight doesn't mean the gaskets are seated correctly. Trying to feel a leak usually ends up with burnt fingers tips. These can be a PITA to seal up correctly. I prefer the fiber aftermarkets [ its been a long time but I think they are Viking. I bought a lot of them but haven't changed any in a while].

[heavyd]

The exhaust hasn't been off in a long long time. My father bought the bike 80k km, and 8 years ago and the exhaust hasn't been off since before that. I have a set of OEM gaskets that I bought incase I ever decide to switch back to the factory exhaust(hahahahahahaha) but I am pretty nervous about twisting off a header bolt no matter how long I soak them in penetrating fluid. The header on number 1 is looking pretty rough though.




On the plus side, all the time in the garage worrying gave me time to finally put together that manometer.

[Ricky-D]

For locating the origination of sound (noise) use a length of garden hose instead of a mechanical stethoscope.

***

[heavyd]

Removing the exhaust went about as well as I expected.



I only took off #1 because it is in the worst shape, and I am supposed to be leaving on a trip Friday morning. By some miracle I might find 2 exhaust studs, but I would never find 6. I don't know what the exhaust gasket is supposed to look like but this seems pretty mashed.



But I am also concerned that it isn't the gasket, but the actual header although I couldn't see light when I stuck a flashlight inside.



Right now I am stuck at find the two studs, replace this gasket and hope that was it because I will be out of time if I make it at all.

Also, for anyone that doesn't have a set of these bolt extractors, you should. They have saved my butt so many times, left hand thread so the harder you twist them on the harder they bite into the bolt. I would never have gotten the back stud out without them, no way my stud remover was fitting in there. I've abused them as bad as taking out the oil drain plug on my truck that looked like the previous owner had tried to take it off with a chisel then given up. Had to use an impact gun to get it out, then put it in a vise and reverse it to get the socket back off but it never slipped. Also good for JIS screws that someone has previously destroyed.

[Patrick]

It looks as though you may have found one of your 'ticks'. I'd like to see what the gasket looks like. They can be a pain at times to get out.

Some folks have used bolts instead of finding new studs. I prefer the stepped studs.

[John Schmidt]

To me, that gasket doesn't look the same all the way around. If there's a leak in the area near the bottom of the picture, that would surely cause the damage shown to the header. If you look at the top of the opening, there's a slot next to the drain hole. I picked up a long narrow screwdriver, heated it so I could put a bend in the end that's greater than 90 degrees. Then just put it in that open slot and pop out the old gasket. I wonder if there might be another old gasket under that one. Wouldn't be the first time someone missed removing one and installed the new one on top.

[knockdolian]

If you cant find studs, use bolts 

[heavyd]

Maybe the problem is my Cobra pipes that I should have mentioned 4-5 days ago, but I can't see any physical way to make bolts work. I couldn't get them threaded in as bolts so I cut the heads off and tried to use them as studs but they are about 1.5-2mm wider than the holes in the flange. The bolts will fit through the flange but the holes would need to be ovaled out wider and that would only leave 2.5-3mm between the hole and the edge of the flange. The local Honda wasn't open today, the second closest is 2 hours away but they didn't have any instock and 3-4 business days to get them. Been using social media looking for someone who might have a couple of spare but there are very very few Valkyries around here and none of the Goldwing guys are speaking up. Will have to make more calls on Monday and hope for the best.

[Ricky-D]

It looks like you pulled the threads out of that one stud hole.

***

[Paladin528]

O ordered new studs from honda.  Not expensive (by honda standards) and only took a day to come in

[heavyd]

Ok, an update.

Replaced the studs made no real difference. Tightened the valves as tight as I dared, and the noise got better, but didn't go away. Had a mechanic I trust listen to the engine and he agrees that it sounds like the back cylinder on the right side is the source, and suspects a bent valve. This was 2 days into my 3.5 weeks of vacation which wasn't an ideal time to be down to 1 bike. I had just rode 1400km in 3 days on my 1985 CB750SC and I had no interest in spending my whole vacation on it. I pushed my Valkyrie into a corner until the snow arrives, and bought another 97.

I'll post pictures once I get it cleaned up again, spent my vacation riding not cleaning. It is a black 97 Standard that has had a Hondaline Tour pack installed and a pile of other accessories. For some reason I can't yet explain it is also faster than Valyrie #1 while giving better gas milage.

I am sure there will be another post once I actually start tearing into the engine, I appreciate the help this far.