general consensus regarding origin of the species

[hukmut]

Hi all!    I am writing this because a  "Harley Head" that I know, adamantly swears that the Valkyrie is "one of those
g*****n Japanese bikes" and "no way in Hell will he EVER ride one".     
Now,  I know that on My bike it has "MADE IN USA" cast on the engine case. 
You know, different strokes etc. I just figure that he's just too drunk to care or...
So, here is my question:      is the Honda Valkyrie,   MADE IN USA   <or>   "one of those g*****n Japanese bikes"?
I, for one, simply do not care because I already own, ride, and enjoy mine.
Please tell me. Thank you.

[PAVALKER]

Obviously brand is one of those Jap bikes.  However, Valkyries  and other Honda bikes were made in Marysville Ohio Plant.  By made, I mean assembled.

[hubcapsc]

Obviously brand is one of those Jap bikes.  However, Valkyries  and other Honda bikes were made in Marysville Ohio Plant.  By made, I mean assembled.

Oh no. There's folks on this board who went to factory tours and watched
the tins being made and painted and they don't cast "MADE IN USA" on
the motors they send from Japan...

-Mike

[Momz]

Assembled in the USA by American labor, using domesticley produced components/assemblies, and most other parts.

[Tfrank59]

Everything is actually done globally now even the so-called US-made products.  I assure you there are many parts on a Harley that are made offshore, and as has been pointed out the Marysville Ohio plant was where Valkyries were made – and not just assembly but a lot of foundry and machine work as well.  One thing that makes the Honda Valkyrie special is of course that the labor was chiefly US workers.

[Jess from VA]

Not only 100% made in America (though the engine stamps ended in 1999), but the percentage of American made parts was quite high (like 80%), much higher than Harley can claim for the last many years.

Get a new friend.  

[Tfrank59]

And this might be of interest to your Harley friend... http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2012/01/06/harley-davidson-now-assembles-a-total-of-5-models-in-india/. Granted, the article says these bikes are built for the Indians, but just saying...

[signart]

My '98 also had Made in USA on the back of the rear seat.
Just point at the embossment on your bike and say, "Where does it say that on your Harley?"

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just ignore him.  No amount of explanation is going to get him to see the light. I could understand this attitude on Dec. 8 , 1941. But things have changed since then.

[Steve K (IA)]

Obviously brand is one of those Jap bikes.  However, Valkyries  and other Honda bikes were made in Marysville Ohio Plant.  By made, I mean assembled.

Oh no. There's folks on this board who went to factory tours and watched
the tins being made and painted and they don't cast "MADE IN USA" on
the motors they send from Japan...

-Mike

I took that tour.  Watched them weld up the gas tanks and they had frames in jigs.

[nogrey]

Hi all!    I am writing this because a  "Harley Head" that I know, adamantly swears that the Valkyrie is "one of those
g*****n Japanese bikes" and "no way in Hell will he EVER ride one".    
Now,  I know that on My bike it has "MADE IN USA" cast on the engine case.  
You know, different strokes etc. I just figure that he's just too drunk to care or...
So, here is my question:      is the Honda Valkyrie,   MADE IN USA   <or>   "one of those g*****n Japanese bikes"?
I, for one, simply do not care because I already own, ride, and enjoy mine.
Please tell me. Thank you.

I've just never understood why it even mattered. I had a guy at a bike rally trying to sell me some kind of bike cleaner. Guys were bringing their bikes and he told me to get mine. When I showed up with my Valkyrie he literally turned his back on me and refused to acknowledge my existence. I figure, guys like that are just showing their lack of maturity and IQ. Doesn't really insult me in any way. My momma always said "There's a fool born every minute and most of them live". I've seen her proved right nearly every day of my life. The whole "rice burner, Jap bike" crapola never made much sense to me either. OK, we were at war with the Japanese, so we hate them forever, right? But hey, wait a minute, we were at war with the Germans too, and we think their cars are the end all to end all (well, I don't, but that's me). Anyway, you see my point? What on earth is the whole argument about in the first place? It's a global economy. We either compete or we don't. Anyway, rant over. The whole conversation is really ridiculous.

[Gavin_Sons]

That jap crap you ride will outlast his Harley 5 to 1. I work with a guy that rides harleys and we are always messing with each other. He asked how many miles mine had on it. Told him 140k then he asked how many times the engine and transmission had been rebuilt. I laughed and said you have to rebuild those? He then claimed his 2010 ultra hd fltxd soft tailed springer road glide has been rebult at 21k 34k and 46k. I said wow, you better go buy one of those crappy hondas where you only have to worry about your next destination. He is still a kool aid drinker and must love wasting money. He Iis a rider though just has to keep every harley dealer on his route on speed dial. He also thinks that air filter sticking off the side makes it have 200 hp, even though in a race all he seen was my tail light.  I think he is intrigued by the valkyrie because I catch him looking it over during break time. Told him he could ride bitch and find out how a real bike feels. 

[hubcapsc]

But hey, wait a minute, we were at war with the Germans too, and we think their cars are the end all to end all

Heck, they're made just down the road from me in my home town of Greenville SC...



-Mike

[BobB]

Just to be clear, our early Valks, the ones with MADE IN U.S.A. cast in the engine case, met the Federal requirements to add that label.  At that time the bike had to be assembled and at least 50% of the parts had to be made in the states.  H-D could not meet that requirement, so in 1998 they petitioned Congress to up the parts requirement to 70%.  It's obvious that H-D did this so Honda America could no longer apply the MADE IN U.S.A. label.  Congress of course complied.  The new guideline went into affect in 1999, and Honda America could not meet the 70% parts requirement, so the 1999 model year Valks that were produced 1998 had the label and the rest did not.

I can proudly point the the MADE IN U.S.A. label on my '98 Tourer.  When asked about it, I say it's a Valkyrie made by Honda America...

[PAVALKER]

Obviously brand is one of those Jap bikes.  However, Valkyries  and other Honda bikes were made in Marysville Ohio Plant.  By made, I mean assembled.

Oh no. There's folks on this board who went to factory tours and watched
the tins being made and painted and they don't cast "MADE IN USA" on
the motors they send from Japan...

-Mike

Been to the plant a few times, took the tours.  Yep, they paint the tins....but I didn't see em stamped out.  The parts and pieces do come from all over and the bike was "Made in USA", but not all the individual parts and pieces were.   I didn't say they cast the engine blocks at the plant, and no tour I ever took showed that.  It is a gasoline engine.....not a motor BTW.

I believe there is actually more Jap made parts on an HD than a Honda Valkyrie.  But, frankly I don't  care....... Yet that HD owner might.

[F6Dave]

Back when the Valk was new, one of the bike mags compared its parts content with H-D.  The original Valks had about 85% American parts content, while Harleys built then were considerably lower, at about 74%.  Honda built things like wiring harnesses and gauges domestically (thanks to their auto plants) while Harley had to buy those parts from suppliers outside the USA.  I think most of their chrome parts came from Taiwan.  Suspension and brake parts on H-Ds are often stamped 'Made in Japan' and you can surprise some owners by pointing that out.

Of course, after 2010 Honda closed the Ohio plant and moved all MC production back to Japan.  The build quality on my Japanese F6B seems comparable to my old American Valks (except for the paint), but I do miss having Hondas that were truly 'Made in USA'.

[Daro]

 

[hubcapsc]

It is a gasoline engine.....not a motor BTW.

Holy cow... we have enginecycles?

-Mike

[da prez]

 I work on Harleys to support my Valkyrie habit. 

   Arguing with a Harley owner is like the greased pig theory , pretty soon you realize the pig enjoys the fight.

   The highest mileage HD I have ever rebuilt is 82000. They are usually in at 32 to 40,000 for engine work.
  Twin cams last about 30,000 before needing cam bearings and tensioners. You can hold the parts in one hand and it is a thousand dollars ($1,000) plus labor.
  Some of the HD parts have stickers on them that cover a foreign manufacture label.

                                       da prez

[Tx Bohemian]

  It is a gasoline engine.....not a motor BTW.

Not to start an argument (Lord knows there's enough of that on this board already) but technically it is a motor.
If you look up "motor" in Webster:

 a machine that produces motion or power for doing work


Full Definition of MOTOR


1:  one that imparts motion; 


2:  any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: as 

      a :  a small compact engine 

      b :  internal combustion engine; especially :  a gasoline engine 

      c :  a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy


I've always heard that "motors" are electrical however, back in my mechanicing days, I was thrown for a loop when I had to change a couple of "vacuum motors", it got me to doing some research.
The devices that open and close the headlights on an old Corvette Stingray are called Vacuum "motors" because they "impart motion".

[Patrick]

It is a gasoline engine.....not a motor BTW.
end quote





 This argument has been going on since these converted air pumps have been discovered.

Not only do I have motorcycles and motorbikes, I have outboard motors.

They are rotating devices. Any argument basically boils down to semantics.

[Bone]

Engine


An engine, or motor, is a machine designed to convert one form of energy into mechanical energy. Heat engi…




en.wikipedia.org

[Valkpilot]

There's a law that controls what can be labeled "Made in USA", based on domestic content of the item being labeled.  The Valkyrie complied with this law in 97 and 98, so both the seat and the engine casing were so labeled.

Post-98, I believe that the law changed just enough that Honda could no longer label its 750cc and larger bikes (which were what were produced in Marysville, OH) "Made in USA". 

I don't think the domestic content changed throughout the Valkyrie production years.

[Jess from VA]

In my travels, I have found reference to motor or engine to often be geographic.

There were gas engines, and electric motors.

But on boats, they were always motors, outboard-inboard motors..

Electric trains were motors, but steam were engines.

But one motors down the road, one does not engine down the road.

And it's a motor scooter, not an engine scooter.

And there are jet engines, but not jet motors.

And it was General Motors, not General Engines.  

But there are engineers, not motorneers.  Or degrees in mechanical motorneering.

And of course, it's a motorcycle, not an enginecycle.

Then some doofus came up machine.  

 

[Michelin Man]

If I am not badly mistaken, the two times that I toured the plant in Marysville,OH, the people that worked there said that the engine was built in Anna,OH. They also said that some of the major castings (aluminum), were manufactured by Alcoa.

[PAVALKER]

In my travels, I have found reference to motor or engine to often be geographic.

There were gas engines, and electric motors.

But on boats, they were always motors, outboard-inboard motors..

Electric trains were motors, but steam were engines.

But one motors down the road, one does not engine down the road.

And it's a motor scooter, not an engine scooter.

And there are jet engines, but not jet motors.

And it was General Motors, not General Engines.  

But there are engineers, not motorneers.  Or degrees in mechanical motorneering.

And of course, it's a motorcycle, not an enginecycle.

Then some doofus came up machine.  

 

Yea yea.....   Im guilty of calling it a motor cycle as well.... but in auto tech school there was explained the technical difference.  The gasoline engine used an electric motor as the starter.  An engine uses fuel to covert the fuel into energy.  A motor uses electricity.  That being said, the term motor  has been used for many  many years to describe both an engine or a motor.  But technically....there is a difference.

Just a bit of trivia.....

http://www.ask.com/vehicles/difference-between-motor-engine-75f8663895bf9a55

[Bonzo]

The 1997 and 98 Valks had more Made In USA components than any comparable HD

[Tfrank59]

You know, seriously, this whole argument is such a joke.  Someone posted that Harleys need to be rebuilt at about 30 to 40,000 miles, and I see one after another of Valkyrie owners whose bikes have six digits on the odometer and still going, never having been once rebuilt!  In light of that, who really gives a rip where it's made – it's an awesome piece of engineering not to mention a thing of beauty.  If I could afford to own 25 motorcycles, a Valkyrie 1500 would still be among them.

[teadream42]

Gentlemens.
We talking about the hand that point to the moon. If you feel that you have to defend her ( your Val.). Then get a Harley. You miss the Moon.

[Paladin528]

I couldn't care any less where my bike was built.  It comes from a long line of well engineered and assembled machines and I love it.
I will never ride a Harley.

[MarkT]

The fact is (OK a fact to me, I've seen piles of evidence for years, but I'm not footnoting to support this statement) that Japan has among the best engineers and production facilities as well as practices for producing vehicles - and most other products - in the world.  If not THE best.  We have our own best-in-the-world venues, including innovation, high-tech invention, education.  The HD faithful derisively turns up their nose at "rice grinders" and "jap crap".  Then buy their bikes from the "Motor Company" which are 80 years behind in tech and execution and need untold amounts of money to keep their bikes running. Why should HD improve when their faithful will buy no matter what?  They aren't selling motorcycles.  They are selling a brand, an idea, a culture. And have built a brand that is the envy of marketers the world over.  Logic, "common sense"  (I hate that expression after it has been pirated by the left) aren't in the mix.  Milwaukee is now their Mecca.  Have you noticed, Harley dealers all have their prayer rugs in their lounges, facing Milwaukee?

Hey the war has been over for 70 years.  After the war, Japan became great at copying our products.  Then went beyond that, after studying our culture, and educating themselves often in OUR schools, to surpass us.  Their secret is they are INDUSTRIOUS.  And work very hard at it.  Not lazy like some cultures (without naming except maybe south of us). It's surprising to me, that they embraced capitalism so well, after so recently being socialist.  They still embrace the latter socially, but not economically.  Even so, they have also addressed the NMH (Not Made Here) stigma by making them here with American labor and parts mostly made here. Not to have the wind pulled out of their sails, the Harley faithful counter "but it's a JAP COMPANY, THEY GET THE MONEY".  Yeah, well some of it.  They earned it.  Hard to take the wind out of their sails when they run on STEAM.  Might as well argue religion with Islamic terrorists.

My lifelong buddy from high school - we used to ride together around '69-70 - decided to get a bike again after being out of it since the 70's. Hell-bent on getting a Harley, I was shocked that he had been brainwashed.  Thought he was smarter than that.  I showed him report after report on HD problems, known failures, my experiences with HD friends and their frequent breakdowns causing a ride stop and having to go get a trailer; that he would be wrenching not riding, that if we are to ride together I don't want his poor choice of bikes ruining our rides.  On and on. He finally agreed and had a Victory lined up.  Then bought a Dyna 96 anyway.  Said he "couldn't pass up such a great price.  Besides - always wanted a Harley"  (I don't think it was a "besides").  The seller learned about the cam problems and dumped it before it broke on him.  I told him - "alright, it's water over the dam now - I'll quit harping on it, after all I hate a nag myself - but I guarandamtee you - you're going to hear from me, more than once I'm sure - usually on the side of the road - I TOLD YOU SO.

Invited him to come ride here on the foothills.  Outstanding riding here; roads I found with my mapping software and GPS - far beyond his Kansas rides of 4 right turns with straights in between.
On the day he was to arrive here - trailering of course - so I could take him on our great twisty rides in the foothills - he was overdue to show up.  No phone call.  Dammit Ron, you better be in the hospital.

He was.  Had a stroke which paralyzed him.  Can't ride - or even talk - to this day.  I visit him a couple times a year in Wichita - do maintenance on his HD.  Take him for rides, riding bitch on Deerslayer. Going to assist him deer hunting this next season - just helping him, not gonna get a license myself.  His Dyna got even with me - burned the crap outta my leg, went septic, had to go to the hospital.  Nasty scar now.  And the both of them stopped me from saying I TOLD YOU SO.

[F6Dave]

It isn't easy to find an all-American car, truck, motorcycle, or anything these days.  I have a Ford Fusion that was built in Mexico.  And the paint quality on that car is excellent.  Maybe the lack of EPA regs forcing the USA to use water-based paint has something to do with that.

[Walküre]

The speedo I had to buy for my wife's "1200 Skirtster", had "Made in Japan" in big letters inside. Sometimes I think that was the best part ON that bike - of course, she now has a 2000 FXDWG - Dyna Wide Glide. She's just not comfortable on the width of the Valk. As long as I tighten the loose bolts periodically, it's not a bad machine.......

.......for a girl.....

R

 

[MarkT]

If you are thinking of buying a harley - read this first.  So you at least know what you're getting into.  This article reports good and bad - bad first.

http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/beforeyoubuyharley.html

[Woton]

Get a new friend.  

Exactly - and note I removed the laughing face from Jess' quote...

Just walk away...

[Glenn-B]

Thanks guys. Some interesting info on this post. Just to add I was at a local biker cafe and got talking to a BMW GS rider. He asked what I rode and I pointed to my Valk. He asked what is it? I told him. Flat six 1500cc boxer etc. He asked how much oil it uses? None I said. By the time it might need a wee bit of a top up it's time for a oil change at 8k miles anyway. He looked shocked. The newer BMW boxers apparently gobble oil until the the rings properly bed in at around 40k miles Haha
Oh and I also like showing Harley riders the Made in USA on the engine and show off with a 10 pence coin balanced on the valve cover trick Hehe

[hukmut]

Thank you all for the varied and to the point information concerning the origin of our wonderful machines.
As I go down the road, I am amazed by the smoothness of the engine, the ride and most of all, the power.
But you already know.
Thank you all again for your input.

[art]

Engine


An engine, or motor, is a machine designed to convert one form of energy into mechanical energy. Heat engi…




en.wikipedia.org

It's that thigamabob under the gas tank between your legs that makes you go wheeeeeeee down the road.