another 19 yr old killed by a cop

[BF]

This has got to stop. I can't fathom what makes a cop shoot someone like this.

This cop didn't shoot ....................  Yes, that's an officer of the law on the ground, while others took pictures and texted or posted them, but nobody helped him.  So tell me, where would your gun be?  Oh right, no gun, just a keyboard. 

With this keyboard, let me ask this. How does anyone know this is a cop? I don't know anything about this instance, I don't recognize the photo. What's the story here?

Not too hard to find the story.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/08/15/pistol-whipped-cop-didn-t-shoot-attacker-due-to-fear-of-media-co/21223252/?cps=gravity_4816_341760671263693846

[BF]

What do you guys think of these two officers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5meOF-o-qA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYONo5LeWDs

[rainman]

after reading all that has been said on this post.  I am with gavin run=death, stop=you live another day.    The talk in every city is (we need to fine a way to stop crime) the answer is shot and ask questions later. with all the drugs, gangs and illegal guns that are in the hands of gang members and everyone else  why shouldn't a cop or anyone else not feel threaded on the streets so again if you run your guilty
in my home town the police are really good shots in front of a paper target.  I have shoot with them many of times and I am expert with a pistol. I at one time worked with some of the officers on there shoot skills will not go into all the details.  But I can say this unless you are a cop you don't know what the feeling is when you walk up to a car you have to be ready for any thing and every thing to go wrong that means hands on your gun.

I have no problem with cops defending themselves . Shooting a shoplifter or anybody who is running away and poses no threat to the police officer in the back is not defending your self. As a hypothetical , let's say someone has an outstanding warrant for not paying a speeding ticket. Let's say that person gets stopped by a cop for having a tail light out. He thinks he is going to jail and he jumps out of the car unarmed and runs across a field to get away from the cop. The cop shoots him in the back. Yes it was not good judgement on his part but it does not warrant DEATH. You guys who are advocating people being shot for running from the cops a freaking nuts. I know I'm not the only person who used bad judgement in my youth. But when I was 13 or 14 myself and some friends stockpiled a bunch of snowballs behind a snow bank on Halloween. We would blast cars when they came by. Somebody got pissed (as well they should have) and called the cops. When we saw him coming we ran like hell. It was pitch dark. I'm sure he couldn't tell if we were adults or not. Thankfully he didn't shoot us in the back. He did do some tracking and followed our tracks back to are neighborhood and found out who we were and talked to our parents. Which resulted in some pretty harsh punishment from our Dads. As it should have. But my point is in this scenario you guys would have us killed for throwing snowballs at cars. 

I take that you are about my age.  back in those days (the good ol days) there wasn.t the problems that we have today. I did the same thing but with corn.  today with the way the youth is growing  up with no guidance's from mon and dad.  hell half the time the parents today don't know where there kid are or what they are doing.   if I was a cop today and the bigger cities or in the InterCitys I would be armed with more than one gun and would do what ever it would take to bring them down.

[The emperor has no clothes]

after reading all that has been said on this post.  I am with gavin run=death, stop=you live another day.    The talk in every city is (we need to fine a way to stop crime) the answer is shot and ask questions later. with all the drugs, gangs and illegal guns that are in the hands of gang members and everyone else  why shouldn't a cop or anyone else not feel threaded on the streets so again if you run your guilty
in my home town the police are really good shots in front of a paper target.  I have shoot with them many of times and I am expert with a pistol. I at one time worked with some of the officers on there shoot skills will not go into all the details.  But I can say this unless you are a cop you don't know what the feeling is when you walk up to a car you have to be ready for any thing and every thing to go wrong that means hands on your gun.

I have no problem with cops defending themselves . Shooting a shoplifter or anybody who is running away and poses no threat to the police officer in the back is not defending your self. As a hypothetical , let's say someone has an outstanding warrant for not paying a speeding ticket. Let's say that person gets stopped by a cop for having a tail light out. He thinks he is going to jail and he jumps out of the car unarmed and runs across a field to get away from the cop. The cop shoots him in the back. Yes it was not good judgement on his part but it does not warrant DEATH. You guys who are advocating people being shot for running from the cops a freaking nuts. I know I'm not the only person who used bad judgement in my youth. But when I was 13 or 14 myself and some friends stockpiled a bunch of snowballs behind a snow bank on Halloween. We would blast cars when they came by. Somebody got pissed (as well they should have) and called the cops. When we saw him coming we ran like hell. It was pitch dark. I'm sure he couldn't tell if we were adults or not. Thankfully he didn't shoot us in the back. He did do some tracking and followed our tracks back to are neighborhood and found out who we were and talked to our parents. Which resulted in some pretty harsh punishment from our Dads. As it should have. But my point is in this scenario you guys would have us killed for throwing snowballs at cars. 

I take that you are about my age.  back in those days (the good ol days) there wasn.t the problems that we have today. I did the same thing but with corn.  today with the way the youth is growing  up with no guidance's from mon and dad.  hell half the time the parents today don't know where there kid are or what they are doing.   if I was a cop today and the bigger cities or in the InterCitys I would be armed with more than one gun and would do what ever it would take to bring them down.

I'm astounded that you would shoot teenagers in the back for running. I hope I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

[rainman]

What do you guys think of these two officers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5meOF-o-qA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYONo5LeWDs

the first video not only would I have broke the dumass phone he found himself cuffed and in the back seat of the car.  and the same with the second video and if thought for one second that he was going to pull a gun I would only one choice for me shot the f_ _ _er
do as you are told to live another day  

[Jess from VA]

The rules on use of deadly force are pretty well established and lots of time is spent in the academies teaching it.  It is nonetheless a tricky subject under the best of circumstances, and when it actually comes up, is about the highest stress a man can be under.  

You couldn't pay me enough to be a street cop in the urban/inner-city world.  But I appreciate the work they do.  The lines between murder or manslaughter and justifiable homicide can be clear or murky and ultimately up to a grand jury and a petit jury.  

I think it's easier being an infantryman than a policeman, at least regarding use of force (until politicians begin writing the rules of engagement).  However, in the cities, I think our police are getting to feel more like infantryman than cops.

[rainman]

The rules on use of deadly force are pretty well established and lots of time is spent in the academies teaching it.  It is nonetheless a tricky subject under the best of circumstances, and when it actually comes up, is about the highest stress a man can be under.  

You couldn't pay me enough to be a street cop in the urban/inner-city world.  But I appreciate the work they do.  The lines between murder or manslaughter and justifiable homicide can be clear or murky and ultimately up to a grand jury and a petit jury.  

I think it's easier being an infantryman than a policeman, at least regarding use of force (until politicians begin writing the rules of engagement).  However, in the cities, I think our police are getting to feel more like infantryman than cops.

[hubcapsc]

You couldn't pay me enough to be a street cop in the urban/inner-city world.

You couldn't pay me to be one anywhere... the incident that started this thread happened
in the dinky little town where I live.

All I can say is, I got arrested once, drug sniffed by dogs, handcuffed, car towed,
midnight way out on highway 11, driven to the jail house in the back seat with
my hands behind my back. Erroneously. I was respectful, treated the cops like they
were doing their job. The whole thing started with a speeding ticket (45 in a 35)
and escalated when they realized my license was revoked (erroneously).

The error was figured out, ticket torn up, car brought back and I was sent on my
way before I saw the inside of the cell.

I don't have any patience for people who screw with the cops, we need them,
and they're doing a job I don't want to do...

-Mike

[Hooter]

The rules on use of deadly force are pretty well established and lots of time is spent in the academies teaching it.  It is nonetheless a tricky subject under the best of circumstances, and when it actually comes up, is about the highest stress a man can be under.  

You couldn't pay me enough to be a street cop in the urban/inner-city world.  But I appreciate the work they do.  The lines between murder or manslaughter and justifiable homicide can be clear or murky and ultimately up to a grand jury and a petit jury.  

I think it's easier being an infantryman than a policeman, at least regarding use of force (until politicians begin writing the rules of engagement).  However, in the cities, I think our police are getting to feel more like infantryman than cops.

     Thanks Jess..I spent 28 years doing the job in the city. Until someone is put on the street or on the road as an officer the speculation of what they would do in some of these instances is kind of un-nerving. Unless you have been there the arm chair quaterback always has a better idea. I liked going home at night! Did I ever fire my weapon? You damn right and that was why I went home at night to see my family. How many people have a gun shoved up against their head with an idiot on the other end telling you he was going to blow your fuc*ing head off for no reason, just because his wife called the law. Or the guy that stabs you in the side while you are trying to protect a 13 year old girl that this ass bag just raped. Hit in the head with a pipe while searching a buiilding that some degenerate just broke into and was attempting to burn down because  he had been fired. Some will say: "Its your job so live with it". So our job is to unjustly die protecting the general public? Maybe so to some extent and all officers live with the fact they may die in the line of duty. But I don't know many officers that WOULDN'T give it all to protect someone! After years of this crap your mindset changes about survival and being mister nice guy. I lived all those scenerios and many more. I don't believe in blind shooting, or shooting someone in the back that is running away from you unless he / she shot first. Then it's game on. Murder no matter by whom is wrong, period.
    Cops are being handcuffed more than criminals now just by the crap that is going on. Can't do your job without someone screaming foul play, discrimination or racism. Especially if you defend yourself or the general public through deadly force. Society is screwed up!
    

[The emperor has no clothes]

The rules on use of deadly force are pretty well established and lots of time is spent in the academies teaching it.  It is nonetheless a tricky subject under the best of circumstances, and when it actually comes up, is about the highest stress a man can be under.  

You couldn't pay me enough to be a street cop in the urban/inner-city world.  But I appreciate the work they do.  The lines between murder or manslaughter and justifiable homicide can be clear or murky and ultimately up to a grand jury and a petit jury.  

I think it's easier being an infantryman than a policeman, at least regarding use of force (until politicians begin writing the rules of engagement).  However, in the cities, I think our police are getting to feel more like infantryman than cops.

     Thanks Jess..I spent 28 years doing the job in the city. Until someone is put on the street or on the road as an officer the speculation of what they would do in some of these instances is kind of un-nerving. Unless you have been there the arm chair quaterback always has a better idea. I liked going home at night! Did I ever fire my weapon? You damn right and that was why I went home at night to see my family. How many people have a gun shoved up against their hear with an idiot on the other end telling you he was going to blow your fuc*ing head off for no reason, just because his wife called the law. Or the guy that stabs you in the side while you are trying to protect a 13 year old girl that this ass bag just raped. Hit in the head with a pipe while searching a buiilding that some degenerate just broke into and was attempting to burn down because  he had been fired. Some will say: "Its your job so live with it". So our job is to unjustly die protecting the general public? Maybe so to some extent and all officers live with the fact they may die in the line of duty. But I don't know many officers that WOULDN'T give it all to protect someone! After years of this crap your mindset changes about survival and being mister nice guy. I lived all those scenerios and many more. I don't believe in blind shooting, or shooting someone in the back that is running away from you unless he / she shot first. Then it's game on. Murder no matter by whom is wrong, period.
    Cops are being handcuffed more than criminals now just by the crap that is going on. Can't do your job without someone screaming foul play, discrimination or racism. Especially if you defend yourself or the general public through deadly force. Society is screwed up!
     

I agree with what you are saying. I think it is an extremely small percentage of cops that do the wrong thing. But the problem is when they do and it's covered up or swept under the rug it breeds mistrust of the profession. I think body cameras are going to be one of the best tools to fight it.

[Moonshot_1]

What do you guys think of these two officers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5meOF-o-qA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYONo5LeWDs

Kinda think it to be an unfair question to be frank about it. We are presented with 2 videos without any history to them. It is picked up from the point the officers look bad. We don't really know if there is a history prior to the video that, if we were aware of it, would make the officer's conduct logical and completely rational.

The guy with the handicap parking space.
Doesn't appear to be handicapped and he even admits that he doesn't look handicapped. He parks in the space and the officer sees him. I don't know if he has a permit that is visible or not. I would wager that if the guy saw someone else not appearing handicapped park in his space he would have called the cops and probably lost his mind.

Sticking the phone in the officer's face could be considered a threat. I'd say if the officer was close enough to knock the phone out of his hand the man was being belligerent and getting too close for the officer's comfort. The guy did say he was a veteran. One can assume he's had combat training and he's mad. And again, according to his own statement, he doesn't look disabled.
I wouldn't want him too close either at that point.

I thought the officer was the rational one in the video. Winner--Law Enforcement.

The second video with the officer with the drawn gun. Again, we don't know the prior history here. We saw only what the guy taking the video wanted us to see. In the conversation there are words exchanged that would strongly suggest that there is a history between this guy and Law Enforcement. Not this particular officer but the local PD in general.
Perhaps there is a history of domestic violence at the residence. Perhaps altercations with the neighbors.
But there sure seemed to be a lot of drama there that would suggest there is way more to this than what was on the video.

So on that point, Winner--Law Enforcement