What Kind of Idiot.......................

[Valker]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but I have seen two posts recently that say motorcycle safety teachers advocate downshifting instead of braking or in addition to it. That is NOT part of the most used (MSF) program. As a matter of fact, almost all of their stopping exercises tell the student to not release the clutch after downshifting.
I am not sure how this one got started, but it is NOT part of the program.

I took the MSF at Anderson SC about three years ago... they certainly wanted you to be in
first-gear/clutch-in when you get stopped...

-Mike

Definitely in first gear with the clutch in, I was addressing the idea that they classes told people to downshift and release the clutch between downshifts to slow the bike. Engine braking is discussed, but not pushed. I am ALWAYS in first with the clutch in at a stop.

[Blackduck]

Just checked with a mate. He has a 97 which he bought new. Has only ever used a good bearing grease on all splines, currently has 240K Kilometres (150/160K miles) on it and it has been riden hard in all weather and drag raced.
It has some wear on the hub splines but nothing to worry about.
Reassembled per per spec and greased at tyre changes. Never had an O ring replaced.
Think it comes back to correct assembly per Honda manual and good lube. By all means use Honda spec lube. Just be aware that they do survive with plain bearing grease if put back together correctly.
Think it comes back to the assembly procedure as much as anything.
If in doubt lube it.
Cheers Blackduck

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Just checked with a mate. He has a 97 which he bought new. Has only ever used a good bearing grease on all splines, currently has 240K Kilometres (150/160K miles) on it and it has been riden hard in all weather and drag raced.
It has some wear on the hub splines but nothing to worry about.
Reassembled per per spec and greased at tyre changes. Never had an O ring replaced.
Think it comes back to correct assembly per Honda manual and good lube. By all means use Honda spec lube. Just be aware that they do survive with plain bearing grease if put back together correctly.
Think it comes back to the assembly procedure as much as anything.
If in doubt lube it.
Cheers Blackduck

I agree with you as my dad is in a more remote area and when checked with the local Honda dealer for the moly paste, they didn't carry it. Said there techs use regular cv joint grease. As long as it's regularly maintained it should be fine. I just prefer what's called for if available. 

[Rattlebars]

Gentleman,

Downshifting and releasing the clutch through every gear at every stop is not recommended on a bike that has the swept area the size of the Valkyrie.  Your brakes are more than adequate to stop your bike. In doing so in wet conditions or in a curve can easily dump the bike because you have caused the rear wheel to lock up - BOOM - DOWN you go.

However, those that make it a habit  of using the "engine brake" as well as the lever/pedal brakes are robbing themselves of thousands of miles of tread life on their rear tire.  It's foolish and expensive to "engine brake" when it's not necessary.

And, tho I have read some who say that this will not cause wear on the drive train, it will cause wear on the drive train starting at the clutch and moving all the way to the final drive.

When slowing, one should downshift into the gear commensurate with current speed in case of the need to power out of trouble.  If you are only stopping at a light or stop sign, keep the clutch disengaged (pulled).  You'll save yourself time and money on your rear tire and reduce the strain on your drive train.

Read about tire wear on motorcycles here

[Ricky-D]

I see that most are in agreement about the need for grease on the splines.  The "all over the chart" reasons for the need for grease are unstated  and so I will try to explain why the grease is needed.

First it needs to be recognized that the splines we are talking about do not 'WORK" but are static when the wheel is installed.

With this fact in hand it is a short step to realize the only reason for grease then would be to aid in assembly and dis-assembly of the wheel flange from the hub. There is a derived benefit from the grease as a preserving medium against corrosion.

So this brings me to the realization of an additional possibility for the wear on the splines as pictured in the earlier posting. I had earlier stated that the wear could be from riding style and I still maintain that is a true possibility.

Now it comes to me that a worn rear wheel bearing could also cause the kind of wear that is pictured and a remote possibility that a loose rear axle will (unlikely so) do the same. Is it possible that a person could ride for that amount of time with a loose rear axle?

Regardless, I've now stated another possible reason for the wear, so take your pick or come up with your own reason, but lack of proper grease or lack thereof is not a realistic option.

***

[RP#62]

I see that most are in agreement about the need for grease on the splines.  The "all over the chart" reasons for the need for grease are unstated  and so I will try to explain why the grease is needed.

First it needs to be recognized that the splines we are talking about do not 'WORK" but are static when the wheel is installed.

With this fact in hand it is a short step to realize the only reason for grease then would be to aid in assembly and dis-assembly of the wheel flange from the hub. There is a derived benefit from the grease as a preserving medium against corrosion.

So this brings me to the realization of an additional possibility for the wear on the splines as pictured in the earlier posting. I had earlier stated that the wear could be from riding style and I still maintain that is a true possibility.

Now it comes to me that a worn rear wheel bearing could also cause the kind of wear that is pictured and a remote possibility that a loose rear axle will (unlikely so) do the same. Is it possible that a person could ride for that amount of time with a loose rear axle?

Regardless, I've now stated another possible reason for the wear, so take your pick or come up with your own reason, but lack of proper grease or lack thereof is not a realistic option.

***

Stress corrosion (fretting) is a common problem on splined joints.  If you don't tighten the 4 bolts last, the already marginal seal that the hub o-ring provides is degraded - the grease slings out - the joint is exposed to air and fretting occurs. (add to the list of other possible scenarios)

http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/fretcor.htm

-RP

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I see that most are in agreement about the need for grease on the splines.  The "all over the chart" reasons for the need for grease are unstated  and so I will try to explain why the grease is needed.

First it needs to be recognized that the splines we are talking about do not 'WORK" but are static when the wheel is installed.

With this fact in hand it is a short step to realize the only reason for grease then would be to aid in assembly and dis-assembly of the wheel flange from the hub. There is a derived benefit from the grease as a preserving medium against corrosion.

So this brings me to the realization of an additional possibility for the wear on the splines as pictured in the earlier posting. I had earlier stated that the wear could be from riding style and I still maintain that is a true possibility.

Now it comes to me that a worn rear wheel bearing could also cause the kind of wear that is pictured and a remote possibility that a loose rear axle will (unlikely so) do the same. Is it possible that a person could ride for that amount of time with a loose rear axle?

Regardless, I've now stated another possible reason for the wear, so take your pick or come up with your own reason, but lack of proper grease or lack thereof is not a realistic option.

***

Stress corrosion (fretting) is a common problem on splined joints.  If you don't tighten the 4 bolts last, the already marginal seal that the hub o-ring provides is degraded - the grease slings out - the joint is exposed to air and fretting occurs. (add to the list of other possible scenarios)

http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/fretcor.htm

-RP

Cool, thanks for sharing. Dave