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knockdolian
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« on: August 27, 2015, 01:46:00 PM » |
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Hi all, I think I have this buzz bolt rattle. My question is, if the tube is too short and rattles/buzzes is it needed. What would be wrong with just using the bolt ? Just a thought
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 01:52:21 PM » |
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The buzz bolt as you called it, it is an internal part of the frame.
Don't believe you would want to eliminate the pipe it goes through.
What is so hard about putting a nice size wrench on one end and a impact wrench on the other?
I did that at about 7,000 miles on MGM. He had 200K+ miles on it when I sold it and no buzz in that time frame.
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44 Harley ServiCar   |
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F6Dave
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 02:38:01 PM » |
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Both are needed. The tightening job is very easy. Some have wedged a washer between the tube and frame to achieve the same result.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 05:05:06 PM » |
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Hi all, I think I have this buzz bolt rattle. My question is, if the tube is too short and rattles/buzzes is it needed. What would be wrong with just using the bolt ? Just a thought
You Are joking right? Eliminate a main cross member of the frame... |
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Valkpilot
Member
Posts: 2151
What does the data say?
Corinth, Texas
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 05:55:44 PM » |
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I prefer loading the cross pipe with RTV silicone and pushing the bolt through and then making sure there's some RTV in the cradles the cross pipe sits in.
To me this makes more sense than trying to squeeze together two structural members of the frame.
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VRCC #19757 IBA #44686 1998 Black Standard 2007 Goldwing   |
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F6Dave
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 07:11:06 PM » |
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If you're curious, here's what's happening. The substantial torque of the Valkyrie tries to twist the motor in the frame. The mounts absorb that force, and the effect is that the 2 frame downtubes are spread apart ever so slightly. At somewhere around 3,000 RPM there's enough torque and vibration from the motor that the tube rattles. If Honda had made the tube a hair longer, or torqued the bolt a bit more, it would not have been an issue.
You can tighten the bolt a bit, fill the tube with some kind of goop, make the tube longer with a washer or something, or just ignore it. It can be irritating but it's harmless.
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Pepmyster
Member
Posts: 698
Go Bonzo, Go!!!!
Mascouche, Quebec, Canada
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 09:51:17 AM » |
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I love that kind of answer, well said and explained!  |
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Now this is getting interesting........
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quexpress
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2015, 10:31:45 AM » |
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I prefer loading the cross pipe with RTV silicone and pushing the bolt through and then making sure there's some RTV in the cradles the cross pipe sits in. That's what I have done in 2003 along with a washer wedged between the tube and frame. It has not buzzed since then. To me this makes more sense than trying to squeeze together two structural members of the frame.
We are on the same page. After looking at the frame, I couldn't imagine squeezing the 2 large vertical pipes closer with the horizontal bolt. |
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I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower ...
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Steve K (IA)
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2015, 11:25:59 AM » |
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I prefer loading the cross pipe with RTV silicone and pushing the bolt through and then making sure there's some RTV in the cradles the cross pipe sits in.
To me this makes more sense than trying to squeeze together two structural members of the frame.
And this is the way it should be done. You shouldn't be forcing things. |
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 States I Have Ridden In |
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knockdolian
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2015, 01:33:24 PM » |
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If you're curious, here's what's happening. The substantial torque of the Valkyrie tries to twist the motor in the frame. The mounts absorb that force, and the effect is that the 2 frame downtubes are spread apart ever so slightly. At somewhere around 3,000 RPM there's enough torque and vibration from the motor that the tube rattles. If Honda had made the tube a hair longer, or torqued the bolt a bit more, it would not have been an issue.
You can tighten the bolt a bit, fill the tube with some kind of goop, make the tube longer with a washer or something, or just ignore it. It can be irritating but it's harmless.
That was really the point I was making. If the tube is left to rattle, its not doing anything. If as you say the down tubes spared under load just the bolt would do the same job I suspect the spacer is nothing to do with strength just a stop to prevent you over tightening the bolt and pulling the down tubes in. I have no intention of guarding it, it was just a thought. |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2015, 02:23:39 PM » |
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If you're curious, here's what's happening. The substantial torque of the Valkyrie tries to twist the motor in the frame. The mounts absorb that force, and the effect is that the 2 frame downtubes are spread apart ever so slightly. At somewhere around 3,000 RPM there's enough torque and vibration from the motor that the tube rattles. If Honda had made the tube a hair longer, or torqued the bolt a bit more, it would not have been an issue.
You can tighten the bolt a bit, fill the tube with some kind of goop, make the tube longer with a washer or something, or just ignore it. It can be irritating but it's harmless.
That was really the point I was making. If the tube is left to rattle, its not doing anything. If as you say the down tubes spared under load just the bolt would do the same job I suspect the spacer is nothing to do with strength just a stop to prevent you over tightening the bolt and pulling the down tubes in. I have no intention of guarding it, it was just a thought. That crossover tube is doing something. The Valkyrie frame is not a solid welded unit. The parts under the engine unbolt as well. So a frame like this is only strong when each and every part is in place. Even if that tube vibrates, it is still able to provide rigidity especially leaning into a curve or any other time stress is put on the frame. Without the cross members engineered into the frame, way more stress would be absorbed by the engine and the ride would suffer because a less than rigid frame will under perform under stress. |
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« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:25:10 PM by Chrisj CMA »
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knockdolian
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2015, 02:48:11 PM » |
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Chris, if the tube is rattling its not doing anything. The bolt is not the tube. its a spacer. That's my observations on it. If it was as vital as you say surly Mr Honda would have made it to fit don't you think
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 03:00:57 PM » |
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Chris, if the tube is rattling its not doing anything. The bolt is not the tube. its a spacer. That's my observations on it. If it was as vital as you say surly Mr Honda would have made it to fit don't you think
Mr. Honda made it fit & right. If it was rigid, it would break the frame at that point. The best thing(s) to do to it, tighten it, fill it with silicone, add a washer, or leave the damn thing alone. Your call. Quit worrying about it and just right the old girl like ya stole it. As I said earlier in this post. Mine started rattling early on in life. I grabbed a big box end wrench and a heavy torque wrench. Hit it a couple of whoops and it has not rattled in over 240K miles. Also it has spent several miles over 3,000 on the tach. 90% of you people worry toooooooooooo damn much about your precious ride. Worry less and ride it more........... Put loud exhaust on it so you can't hear all of these little pecks, clicks, jingles and etc. That way you can enjoy the old girl to her fullest. |
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44 Harley ServiCar |
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Bighead
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 03:07:59 PM » |
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Chris, if the tube is rattling its not doing anything. The bolt is not the tube. its a spacer. That's my observations on it. If it was as vital as you say surly Mr Honda would have made it to fit don't you think
Quit worrying about it and just right the old girl like ya stole it. 90% of you people worry toooooooooooo damn much about your precious ride. Worry less and ride it more........... That way you can enjoy the old girl to her fullest. +100 RJ carbs won't need any attention either if you ride it and not let it sit.  |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 03:11:52 PM » |
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Chris, if the tube is rattling its not doing anything. The bolt is not the tube. its a spacer. That's my observations on it. If it was as vital as you say surly Mr Honda would have made it to fit don't you think
What I think is that you don't understand the function of the frame on a motorcycle. And you are obviously incapable of thinking in terms of what stress does to the components of the frame and how that would change if that spacer wasn't there. |
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