Ride didn't go as planned

[Kingbee]

with a couple of friends yesterday.  DFragn & I met up with a friend & his first and new-to-him Valk Tourer.  At the meeting place (30 miles from home) the Valk Tourer would not turn over. A few clicks, then the headlight wouldn't even light.  Put jumper cables on her and let it sit a few minutes.  Light would light, but only a few clicks from the starter.   Checked the battery connections, starter relay and the fusable link - all OK.  Since there wasn't enough juice to light the headlight, we knew a bump start was not going to work.  Decided to disconnect the battery negative cable and try the jump start again.  It immediately cranked like crazy and started right up.  Called my local Honda dealer and told them to initialize a new battery and we'd be there in a hour.  We then increased his idle a bit just for insurance. He rode the bike there with the battery cable disconnected, with us as escort (we kiddingly told him if he kills it in traffic, he's on his own) and all was well.

That non-OEM battery so seriously internally shorted on the attempted start that even good jumper cables couldn't overcome it.  So, if this happens to you, and jumping is not successful, you might try removing a battery cable.

Dealer installed a new battery, checked the charging system, and no harm was done by an hour's ride with the battery disconnected.

[HotRod]

with a couple of friends yesterday.  DFragn & I met up with a friend & his first and new-to-him Valk Tourer.  At the meeting place (30 miles from home) the Valk Tourer would not turn over. A few clicks, then the headlight wouldn't even light.  Put jumper cables on her and let it sit a few minutes.  Light would light, but only a few clicks from the starter.   Checked the battery connections, starter relay and the fusable link - all OK.  Since there wasn't enough juice to light the headlight, we knew a bump start was not going to work.  Decided to disconnect the battery negative cable and try the jump start again.  It immediately cranked like crazy and started right up.  Called my local Honda dealer and told them to initialize a new battery and we'd be there in a hour.  We then increased his idle a bit just for insurance. He rode the bike there with the battery cable disconnected, with us as escort (we kiddingly told him if he kills it in traffic, he's on his own) and all was well.

That non-OEM battery so seriously internally shorted on the attempted start that even good jumper cables couldn't overcome it.  So, if this happens to you, and jumping is not successful, you might try removing a battery cable.

Dealer installed a new battery, checked the charging system, and no harm was done by an hour's ride with the battery disconnected.

Did you guys try to push start her? I had that happen to me a couple of weeks ago and befor I knew it was the batt I just gave her a push and bam! went and got gas and had to turn her off again and once again no start,gave her a little push and she started right up. Downhill was helpful!

[Kingbee]

Dead flat batt, wouldn't even light a light.  Push start would have been an exercise in futility.

[HotRod]

Dead flat batt, wouldn't even light a light.  Push start would have been an exercise in futility.

Mine was dead flat too,but she was also warmed up from the ride,then we stopped for a smoothie and came out and nothing,no click, nothing. I was just wondering,I'm glad I was able to mine started that way at least,you never know man.

[fudgie]

Whats the theory behind removing the neg cable? Never heard of doing this before?

[Shockbushing Gary]

Whats the theory behind removing the neg cable? Never heard of doing this before?

If the battery is completely shorted (as it seems this one was) It will remove any electrical energy in the system. By disconnecting the -cable, you isolate the battery.
I am old school and get kind of jittery about running with battery disconnected, but all I can say is, they got away with it!
Nice going, Kingbee!

[Kingbee]

Thank you.  It was that, or waiting hours for a towing service.  I guess it was a caculated gamble, but the dealer said no harm was done.  Actually, we might have done more damage by re-connecting the battery (If it would have kept running) and having the charging system trying to service a dead short.

The idea actually came to me on the spot, remembering the old Chrysler commercials when they first came out with the automotive alternator, and bragged how they drove the car across the country without a battery.

I guess that's hint of how old I am.....

One more note, the Honda dealer really fleeced him, charging about $110 for the battery.......

That same dealer only charges me $79 for an OEM battery.

[Ricky-D]

I generally agree with the whole thread and hope I never have to encounter that kind of problem.

That said, I want to add a little from my perspective.

A battery can fail, like has been noted here in a shorted out mode, which would be like taking the disconnected positive cable and connecting to the frame or the negative post of the battery.  This is a true short circuit. Bam!!!!

A battery can also fail in a non shorted mode where an internal connection has broken. This example is what AGM batteries try to eliminate due to the reason that vibration is such a bad thing for batteries.

So removing a battery is akin to a battery that has a broken connection. Both kinds of battery failures will produce no current but one type of failure is severely more dangerous to the charging system than the other.  Shorted out being the worst kind.

I think removing the battery could have possibly saved the charging system. And a lot of bucks too.

***

[Sodbuster]

Is it possible that there was just a poor ground connection on the cable to begin with ??

[Kingbee]

Nope, I recently serviced the bike, including lubing & tightening the batt connections.  When we had the jumper cables on for several minutes, and took them off, there was only a very dim glimmer of the headlight, which lasted no more than two seconds.......

[Rattlebars]

This is not an unfamiliar story.  My lawn mower's first battery lasted 9 years without ever a tender or being charged.  Started right up every spring.  Second battery not too bad, lasted six years.  However, we got it started with a jump from my Avalanche. I ran two passes with it and my electric PTO clutch just leg go of the drive belt for the deck.  I did manage to ride the mower down to the "work" area.  Yup, dead shorted.  So, I decided now was good as ever.  Got the battery number and size then went to start my Avalanche to go get a new one.  Avalanche was dead!  Really!  Just a minute or so connected to that mower dead short drained all the juice from my truck!

[Kingbee]

How do you like your Avalanche? I've had 4 of them, and love 'em.  My current one is a new LTZ, chrome package, fully loaded FWD, White Diamond.

[PatrickDoss]

Glad you got lucky and caused no harm running it without the battery connected.

A friend of mine had a battery short like that in her car.  Killed it instantly driving down the road.  Put in a new batt. and it cruised right along.

[Farther]

I've had 4 of them...

  So, what happened to the first three?

[Kingbee]

The ash trays filled up & had to trade for a new ones.

Actually, the first one  '02 was plain white 4x4 sun roof, no leather.

Decided i wanted leather & heated seats, & then they came out with a limited edition, yellow in '03, had to have it.


I loved the look of that one, but too many dash rattles that couldn't be fixed.

In '07 they had a completely re-designed Avalanche inside & out, so I traded for one in  "Gold Mist" & not a rattle to be heard.

Lastly, I was driving by my dealer, when they just got this completely loaded 4x4 LTZ in White Diamond pearl, and I was a goner.

I still miss the looks of the yellow one, though.

To satify my lust for yellow, AND power, I sold my SSR (yellow) and have a Camaro SS on order.  (You KNOW the color) I've heard it was produced last week.  I'm keeping the AV, though.

Talk about getting off-topic...............