Noisy gearbox

[Romeo]

Lately I have been experiencing much more noise from the back of the motor/gearbox. I gears are square cut and lend them self to a certain amount of noise, but this seems to be excessive. Any insight, input would be appreciated.

[Savago]

Romeo

Which kind/brand of oil are you using?


Savago

[Romeo]

Using Ratella 2 synthetic

[salty1]

Switch to Mobil-1 15W50 full synthetic and see if that helps, it sure did for me.

[Tfrank59]

So this must be a new development?  Sound changes like that are seldom good.  Of course it's a huge thing what oil you're using--and have you just changed from one to another?  If so, that would most likely be the reason for more/different noise from the tranny.  I'm gonna guess you haven't made such changes.  The next thing then is have you let the oil change go for too long?  Also, can you tell if the tranny is getting more heat than previously/normal?  Just some food for thought.  If you haven't made changes to the lube, and it just started getting louder (and hotter), you'll want to get to the bottom of that real fast, IMO.  Let us know what you learn.

[Romeo]

I've been using the Rotella for a few years. I change the oil every spring. I average about 7000 miles a year. I've had a Kuryakn transmission cover on the bike for probably 10 years. The sound seems to be worse under load. It is also worse if I am in a higher gear accelerating, not in the power curve.

[Tfrank59]

Well none of that sounds like it should be a problem.  If it's performing like it should/has been, and doesn't change any more/louder, I'd say you're probably okay.  Maybe change the oil again and inspect what comes out--if no surprises then just run with it.  I think any synthetic oil that's 10-40 should be okay, but I've been using Valvoline 4T full synthetic last few changes and it's great--no excessive whining, shifts smooth, clutch likes it, etc.

[Paladin528]

What kind of noise is it?

[Romeo]

Kind of a gravely sound. Likes rocks in a coffee can.

[Romeo]

Changed the oil. Put in Mobil1 15w50. Noise is still there.

[Earl43P]

Time to inspect the driveline, the ujoint all the way back to the rear wheel.

I bet you find something worn/ like a pinion cup. Noise is probably resonating to SOUND like a gear issue.

[salty1]

Time to inspect the driveline, the ujoint all the way back to the rear wheel.

I bet you find something worn/ like a pinion cup. Noise is probably resonating to SOUND like a gear issue.

Absolutely! 

[Romeo]

Time to inspect the driveline, the ujoint all the way back to the rear wheel.

I bet you find something worn/ like a pinion cup. Noise is probably resonating to SOUND like a gear issue.

pulled the rear tire, pumpkin, driveshaft and universal joint. Everything looks good. The universal joint had slight play in it so we replaced it. Ran the bike while we had the driveline off and heard the noise while running the engine, in gear. Worse in the higher gears while running at low rpm.

[Tfrank59]

Wait, you didn't run the bike in gear with the driveline off and the u-joint on did you?  Your post reads like it was just the output shaft spinning.  If that's the case, I would expect to hear quite a bit of whining from the transmission without any load at all.

[Paladin528]

Let me ask you this.   When taking off from a stop in first gear does this sound go away once you were above 2500 RPM. And does it do the same thing in all gears and the sound disappears once you're above 2500 RPM ?  The reason I am asking is my bike does the same thing it has been doing it since I got it and it sounds like a bag of marbles underload below 2500 RPM performance seems to be right on par

[DK]

When you changed the oil, if you have a magnetic drain plug what, if anything did you find?

If you still have the old filter, open it up & expand the pleated filter media. If any metal is present, is it grayish or bronzish? Will a magnet attract all of it or just some of it.

Also, check the filter can for metallic particles and do the same.

If you find anything, someone more familiar with the Valk tranny could possibly draw some conclusions based on the amount and type of any metal particles.

Dan.

[Punisher]

Oil pump chain?

Seems Grumpy dealt with a similar noise and even split the case on his engine to discover some thing that keeps that chain from rattling had come loose.    Seeing that it didn't hurt anything after all the effort involved he said he would've just left it alone if he'd known that's what it was.

Maybe he'll see this and chime in.

[HayHauler]

Let me ask you this.   When taking off from a stop in first gear does this sound go away once you were above 2500 RPM. And does it do the same thing in all gears and the sound disappears once you're above 2500 RPM ?  The reason I am asking is my bike does the same thing it has been doing it since I got it and it sounds like a bag of marbles underload below 2500 RPM performance seems to be right on par

Mine has had this noise for the last 3 years or so, but I think it got worse after I put on the transmission covers.  They amplify any engine noise even though I lined the inside of them with sound deadening material from O'Reillys.  I even thought it was the dreaded "buzz bolt" but the noise wasn't like the bolt was loose.

Any hard acceleration under 2500 rpm and there is vibration and noise from the engine/tranny.  Above 2500 it gets smooth and gets quiet.  Especially in parking lot maneuvers.   
I have 131,800 miles on mine and she still runs strong.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Skinhead]

I rode Romeo's bike before the rear wheel removal when he wanted to know my opinion of what the noise was.  Saddle bags off, I went maybe 1/4 mi down the road and could hear grinding/clunking noises under moderate acceleration.  I turned around and went back to his house and said I thought it was a U joint.  WE pulled the rear wheel and his UJ did have a small amount of play in it when twisted with channel locks holding each end, and to me, it looked like the ears on the yoke were just starting to rub on the swing arm housing.  I'm not sure about that part, but the outside of the yoke looked like it had witness marks where it hit the SW housing.  However the joint I gave him had similar marks, but not as pronounced,  I had just got one with some parts I bought that had 26,000 mi on it.

Gary changed the u joint, put it all back together and said the noise was still there, I thought "Sh!t, I couldn't have been wrong about the U joint!!  That would make twice in one lifetime that I was wrong!"  So a couple days later was the weekend and perfect riding weather.  When I called Gary to go riding, he said better not with this noise.  So I rode up to his house to take another look.  Took the bike for a ride and told him, I didn't hear anything like what I heard prior to him changing the u joint, he claimed the noise was still there, but it was now obvious we were talking about 2 different noises.  We went for a bout a 10 mile shake down ride, and he agreed that it sounded better, and there was a lot less slop in the drivetrain.  He also told me that after his first ride after changing the u joint he could still hear clunking noises ( he later confessed that that night in bed he remembered he didn't tighten the 4 pumpkin bolts, but I told him I wouldn't tell anyone that).  They were tight when we went for our shakedown ride, and we even switched bike half way so I rode his for about 12 miles and it seemed fine. 

So I think the noisy trans is fixed and whatever other noise he was hearing may be timing belts, but I couldn't hear them.  I'll see if he posts a reply,  (but let's keep the pumpkin bolt thing our little secret, OK?)

[Romeo]

I rode Romeo's bike before the rear wheel removal when he wanted to know my opinion of what the noise was.  Saddle bags off, I went maybe 1/4 mi down the road and could hear grinding/clunking noises under moderate acceleration.  I turned around and went back to his house and said I thought it was a U joint.  WE pulled the rear wheel and his UJ did have a small amount of play in it when twisted with channel locks holding each end, and to me, it looked like the ears on the yoke were just starting to rub on the swing arm housing.  I'm not sure about that part, but the outside of the yoke looked like it had witness marks where it hit the SW housing.  However the joint I gave him had similar marks, but not as pronounced,  I had just got one with some parts I bought that had 26,000 mi on it.

Gary changed the u joint, put it all back together and said the noise was still there, I thought "Sh!t, I couldn't have been wrong about the U joint!!  That would make twice in one lifetime that I was wrong!"  So a couple days later was the weekend and perfect riding weather.  When I called Gary to go riding, he said better not with this noise.  So I rode up to his house to take another look.  Took the bike for a ride and told him, I didn't hear anything like what I heard prior to him changing the u joint, he claimed the noise was still there, but it was now obvious we were talking about 2 different noises.  We went for a bout a 10 mile shake down ride, and he agreed that it sounded better, and there was a lot less slop in the drivetrain.  He also told me that after his first ride after changing the u joint he could still hear clunking noises ( he later confessed that that night in bed he remembered he didn't tighten the 4 pumpkin bolts, but I told him I wouldn't tell anyone that).  They were tight when we went for our shakedown ride, and we even switched bike half way so I rode his for about 12 miles and it seemed fine.  

So I think the noisy trans is fixed and whatever other noise he was hearing may be timing belts, but I couldn't hear them.  I'll see if he posts a reply,  (but let's keep the pumpkin bolt thing our little secret, OK?)

Ah. What are friends for, if not to keep secrets.
But seriously folks, the sound that I was hearing originally, is still there. Our theory of it possibly being the cam tensioners appears to be flawed. After taking the cam belt cover off, and listening around with Aquamans stethoscope I hear nothing coming from either tensioner.
I do however her the sound emanating from the tranny. A previous post mentioned the oil pump chain.
Now I have another variable to add to the mix.
The sound deems to be more pronounced at lower rpm 's.
Utilizing the stethoscope I hear it in the frame, the engine, even the headers. A gravelly, not pleasant sound that while it speeds up and slows along with the revs, doesn't mimic them totally.
As far as checking for metal in the oil, I emptied it through a strainer and found nothing. I haven't cut the filter open yet. Oh, and just for everyone's information, I was just making sure everything was seated properly when I waited to tighten those bolts in back.

[Grumpy]

Several years ago, I had a rattling noise in the rear of the engine. Turned out to be a small cover over the drive chain for the oil pump shaft. It also drives the water pump etc. The bolts that held it had backed out allowing the cover to hit the chain and cause the noise.  Does not sound like what you are having.  I would suspect some thing in the clutch area, rivets in the damper plate, possibly bad bearing in the release assembly.  Does the noise change when the clutch is released or engaged ?. has the clutch changed the way it works, being not able to pull the lever all the way etc.? Another thing, if the problem is in the clutch, no metal will make it into the engine oil pan, there is a small filter screen on the right lower side of the rear case that will stop any material from getting into the pan.

[black bart]

my 2002 F6 Standard that I bought 2 yrs. ago with 9500 miles had Rotelo T-6 5w40. I did not like the trans. noise either. (mainshaft rattle,clutch pushrod rattle, gear whine). So I put in 15w50 Mobil 1, sounds much better. Still will rattle gears if I lug it in a too low gear. Now have 15100 miles , it never gets any louder. Some guys use a 20w50 syn. and are pleased ,5000 mile oil changes are common.