Almost Pure Berryman's?????

[DK]

In following the tech board over the past 18 pr so months, I often see reccomendations of various concentrations of Berryman's often coupled with a suggestion of keeping revs under 2,000 rpm.

Now that cold weather is here and Valk is not on the road as often, what is the pro & con  of adding a full can of Berryman's to a tank on reserve having a bit less than a gallon of gasoline & riding it a few miles to mix things up & letting it sit for a couple of weeks or maybe longer.

I think it would be best to dilute it with at least a couple of gallons of gas before running it thru the engine, although I'm not sure why, other than for the fact that the Valk is designed to burn gas, not Berryman's.

I've soaked an assortment of 0 rings and bits of various fuel and vacuum hoses and gasket material in pure Berryman's for as long as three weeks without harming anything.

The main concern I have is the possibility of loosening scale and rust in  the fuel tank and carbs.

I'd sure like to hear some opinions on this before doing it.

Dan

[mark81]

not sure what that high of a concentration would do to things but its best to store over the winter with a full tank of gas, less room for air and condensation inside the tank

[Grandpot]

I agree with Mark81.  Too much concentration may do more harm than good.

[Earl43P]

There is a wealth of info at their website. I've personally used some pretty high concentrations (like a whole can into 1/4 tank of gas), but I ride it through the tank and refuel afterward. I wouldn't let a high concentration mixture sit in there over a winter. Fuel Stabilizer is an entirely different product and IS appropriate for storage.



"The maximum safe concentration of Berryman B-12 Chemtool Fuel System Cleaner (part  #0116) will vary greatly depending on the application. For instance, an older boat or lawn mower with rubber fuel lines might not hold up to more than 2 oz/gal of 0116 while a new boat or mower with modern fuel lines might be fine with 4 or even 8 oz/gal. That said, please note that the maximum permissible concentration for on-road use per EPA regulations is 1 oz/gal of gasoline.

The minimum concentration of 0116 that will be effective also depends considerably on the application. For instance, cleaning dirty intake valves is a much more demanding task than cleaning dirty fuel injectors or carburetors. The minimum effective concentration also depends on how severe the deposits are."
https://www.berrymanproducts.com/solution-central/maximum-concentration-of-chemtool-0116/

[DK]

Thanks for the feedback. The Berryman site is very informational and I also learned that they have many products I had never heard of.

I don't store my Valk for the winter. Nice thing about Arkansas weather is that if you don't like it, wait a couple of days & it will change for the better. I rarely go more than ten days without riding during the winter but, even so, I try to keep the tank full between rides.

After looking at the Berryman site, I'm going to dilute the concentration to one can in about two gallons and then completely fill the tank after ten days or so & then run that tank thru at less than 2000 rpm.

My concern is the rubber tips of the float valves.

I've got to go thru the carbs before my next long trip anyway - probably to W. VA InZane. My fuel mileage is lousy (always < 25 mpg.) even after Big BF checked it out & replaced the intake O rings at Spearfish this year. The PO installed .38 jets which I'm going to remove and go back to the stock .35's and while doing this, I'll do a Redline de-smog and replace float valves, O rings, gaskets, etc......so, you may ask, why do this now? and I guess the answer is I don't know, I just like to tinker with it and support the economy.

Dan

[John Schmidt]

Just so you'll know, the #38 slow jets presently installed aren't the cause of your low mileage. I've had them in my Tourer for 7-8 yrs., maybe longer, and from the start had little or no effect on mileage. The slightly larger passages help control the buildup of junk from this lousy gas sold today. One thing I did notice....unless the temp is in the 30's or below, I never need the choke. And, 3 yrs. ago after a major heart attack, the bike sat for months without being run. When it was first cranked up, it was a little rough for a couple minutes then ran fine....complements of the larger #38. There was no additive in the fuel, just the pump ethanol junk. If you're only getting 25mpg or less, you have other problems, the #38 slow jets aren't it. And I can still run down the road in the 70mph range and average  35-37mpg.

[salty1]

Thanks for the interesting thread. I use Chemtool B12 frequently (once every 6 weeks or so) and typically use a full can to a tank of gas. I've often wondered what higher concentrations might impact and mostly have had concern for soft rubber parts.

[Edvalk]

I put a half can of berrymans b12 when I'm down to 2 gallons or less drive it around enough to get it in the carbs. Let it sit for the afternoon 4-5 hours then fill up . Run the rest out like most here trying to keep the rpm's down under 2k . Works for me .

[DK]

Just so you'll know, the #38 slow jets presently installed aren't the cause of your low mileage. I've had them in my Tourer for 7-8 yrs., maybe longer, and from the start had little or no effect on mileage. The slightly larger passages help control the buildup of junk from this lousy gas sold today. One thing I did notice....unless the temp is in the 30's or below, I never need the choke. And, 3 yrs. ago after a major heart attack, the bike sat for months without being run. When it was first cranked up, it was a little rough for a couple minutes then ran fine....complements of the larger #38. There was no additive in the fuel, just the pump ethanol junk. If you're only getting 25mpg or less, you have other problems, the #38 slow jets aren't it. And I can still run down the road in the 70mph range and average  35-37mpg.

John,

Thanks to you and others for the information concerning the .38's and the other suggestions. Others have told me the same thing regarding the .38's and after your strong statement and explanation I've decided to leave the carbs as is.

As to the problem lying elsewhere; first, my Valk has been triked due to a knee injury and this somewhat affects mileage especially at higher speeds where I have experienced as low as 14 mpg at high speed or in a headwind.

On the other hand, I just returned from riding the Natchez Trace with my hyper-careful brother in law. We never exceeded 65 mph, half of the trip (on the Trace) was under 55 mph yet 23 mpg was the best tankful. The entire trip was on almost flat terrain with no more than sweeping curves.  

I have Bon S's DigiSync and the carbs are properly synced. At InZane, I had Big BF check it out on the issue of excessive fuel consumption. He replaced the intake O rings, checked for vacuum leaks, and verified that the sync was correct and that the pilots were set at 2 1/4. It resulted in only a slight improvement of 2 - 3 mpg.

The Valk has a little over 25,000 miles, 18,000 of which I have put on during the 18 months I've owned it.

The Valk runs great. It pulls strongly and evenly from low rpm. The left exhaust residue is grayish while the right is black sooty. It has never burned a drop of oil. The # 1 plug is a bit darker than # 3 & 5. Plugs on the other side are as they should be. However, all three piggies on the right side are equally sooty. It starts easily with no enrichment as low as 30 degrees. I have complete service records. The valves have never been reset. I use 20-40 Mobil 1 motorcycle oil changed @ 6,000 mi.  The .38's were installed @ 6,000 miles by a Dallas dealer about a year before I bought it. Presumably the carbs were clean and the trike has been regularly ridden since then.

I acknowledge that I ride it aggressively mainly in hills & mountains, but it simply burns too much gas, mainly on the right cylinder bank.

I suspect float bowls, but I would really appreciate any thoughts from anyone having an idea of what is causing this.

Thanks for reading this tome as you have made it this far.

Dan

[John Schmidt]

With the 38 jets, 2 1/4 turns out is a bit rich. Most bikes run fine at or below 2 turns, many set them at 1 3/4 turns. I set mine and all I've changed for others to only 2 turns and it runs fine. I still say 25 mpg even with a trike is sup-par.

[old grouch]

I still say 25 mpg even with a trike is sup-par.

I agree.  Just a suggestion, take a look at your needles.  Buddy of mine had the kind of mileage you have on his tourer.  Tried everything he could think of, no help.  Turned out some PO had put adjustable needles in.  Went back to stock & got back into the 30-35 mpg range.

[GeoffreyB]

DK,

Since you're in Little Rock, I will suggest you contact Bob Smith (aka Attic Rat) on this board.  He's over in Tulsa, and IMHO is a miracle-worker on our bikes.

I rode my 97 tourer with Cobra pipes for 3 years, and never used the choke, had black sooty pipes, a little soot on the rear fender, and averaged 25 MPG the whole time - RARELY getting over 27 MPG on a single tank (exactly 8 tanks of 65 fillups in 3 years got over 27 MPG).  Run a K&M filter without the prefilter.  I KNOW part of the issue with my MPG is the twisting of the right wrist, because all 8 tanks over 27 MPG were when I rode 2-up with the wife on the back - where I ride a bit more conservatively.

I took my bike to Bob back in June of this year for a carb rebuild.  Best money I've spent on the bike to date.  Got it back and it's running so much better - more power (butt dyno confirmed), better MPG (Average 27.3 MPG in 6 tanks, NOT 1 tank UNDER 25 MPG - all riding HARD and fast), do need to use the choke/enhancer when it's below 70 - but only for a minute, no more black soot on the back of the bike.  He also desmogged and tightened up a few loose bolts while he was in there - bike is like new.

During the rebuild Bob discovered that the PO had actually reamed out the stock jets, and I believe that is the cause of my running rich, and part of the MPG issue.

I know some will argue that larger jets are fine if everything is "tuned" properly, to which I'll say that's not been my experience, and as much as we all brag on what a fine job Honda did engineering these motors - why would you change them?

[John Schmidt]

Geoffrey, I agree re. Honda engineering, but it wasn't engineered to run on corn "likker."  That's where the trouble starts and the slightly larger 38 slow jets helps in that department. Until this gas came on the market, I never had a problem with the OEM jets. As for the low mileage, 27 mpg is still well below standard. I can ride hard and fast on the interstates and still get in the low 30's. My carbs are stock except for the 38 slow speed jets and I/S springs. I use a K&N w/o the prefilter and have a 4 deg. trigger wheel. That's it!

[Pappy!]

Would be checking the diaphragms and for excess shims on the needles for poor mileage.

[longrider]

John is right that the 38's should be good but the pilot jets must be closed to 1 3/4 to 2 turns open.  These can affect the mileage.  Friend of mine took his valk in a few years ago for a tune up prior to a lengthy trip and the repair shop opened them up to over three and a half turns.  It was running so rich it would barely idle, could only get 110 miles on a tank.  Not easy to readjust on the road but it got done and the bike was back to normal fuel mileage

[DK]

Is there any concern of burned valves from pilots being closed too much?

Dan

[Brian]

I have a 97 standard, using an aftermarket 4 degree trigger wheel, new jets - stock sizes and have recently rebuilt the carbs completely replacing all gaskets and o-rings. I had a few pilot jets totally clogged with gunk from crappy gas, the idle was little rough before doing this no matter additive/cleaner I ran through it.  I am running the stock needles and diaphragms and have replaced the float valves using Honda OEM replacements due to a few leaking by. I am also running the stock pipes with the first baffles drilled out for a little noise. I check the carb sync every spring after doing the rear lube routine. All this said I am in the 35 - 38 mpg range with it being as high a 45 riding the back roads of SC at a nice comfortable 45 to 55 mph. I find a lot of my previous poor gas mileage figures is due to the right wrist.    I also try to fill up with middle grade pure gas that we have at few stations here and I use Liquid Performance additive when using the corn crap. My Valk is getting better mpg than the 2007 C90 Boulevard trike I now own and it is fuel injected.  FYI, this valk smooth running motor is awesome compared to getting back on a V-twin. It sucks getting old and thinking about going to 3 wheels all the time. I plan to keep this valk as long as I can still ride it.

[hukmut]

You are right in suspecting the floats. IMHO, those float needles are weakened due to age. I would be willing to bet that if you took your carbs off, removed the float bowls, and checked which floats are "bouncy" while upside down, that at least 2 will not be "bouncy". These springs are tiny but they do a big job in regulating fuel going into the carb circuits. They are really tiny. You will be surprised when you see them.
Found this out the hard way. Nearly had a hydrolock issue, flooding 4-5 cylinders resulting in a no engine turnover. Got really lucky. 

Ride safe.