Stopping, putting feet down....Help!

[wildthang1949]

Hello to all....I have been riding a vtx 1300 for about five years and have recentely purchased a Valk. I love the smooth power and the bike overall, but I seem to have  a  problem when stopping. I feel like sometimes I am going to drop it. My feet touch the ground fine. Is there a secret you guys use to stop this big girl? Use the front brake or rear, put your foot down before it stops...there has to be a 'trick' to this. I have no problem with the x and have ridden the Valk about 2500 miles in the past couple months trying to get used to it and still not able to come to a smooth, balanced stop. Any advise or techniques that work for you much appreciated.......

[Ben]

RELAX  !!,  Your bike has a great natural balance...when it's YOUR BIKE.  that happens when
you least expect it.  Did I mention RELAX...??. Ride safe and have fun  Wildthang
regards -Ben-

[JimL]

I don't stop the Valkyrie any different than any other bike I've ridden.  I almost always stop using the textbook approach...using both front and rear brake with my left foot hitting the ground just before the bike stops followed by the right foot on the ground.

[Daniel Meyer]

Head up...eyes forward.

[Chrisj CMA]

a perfect stop is left foot on the ground clutch in, first gear and right foot on the rear brake.  I think what would help you is to get in a deserted parking lot and practice slow riding and slow stopping.  As was said already, once you "get it" you GOT it......its really no different than any other bike....just the bigger and heavier, the more important it is to do it right

[HotRod]

a perfect stop is left foot on the ground clutch in, first gear and right foot on the rear brake.  I think what would help you is to get in a deserted parking lot and practice slow riding and slow stopping.  As was said already, once you "get it" you GOT it......its really no different than any other bike....just the bigger and heavier, the more important it is to do it right

+1,and I try to come to a slow smooth stop and wait to put feet down,just glide.

[Willow]

Bring the bike to a complete stop and then put your left foot down (unless, of course the ground slopes steeply away on the left side   ).

Practice bringing the bike to a complete stop without putting a foot down until you are fully convinced that the bike will not immediately topple over just because it's not rolling.

While at a stop practice very lightly touching only one foot to the ground.  If the bike starts to lean in one direction touch just enough on that side to bring the bike back to upright. Practice until you can keep the bike sitting upright and still by only gently tapping one foot or the other to the ground as needed.

[Valker]

One thing that helps a lot of riders is let off the front brake the last two INCHES of the stop. This prevents a lot of weight shift when the front wheel is not perfectly aligned.

[JimL]

This turns out to be a good refresher thread.  I just checked multiple sites on the correct way to stop your motorcycle and fully stopped before the left foot goes down and right foot on the brake seems to be correct.  I don't think I will ever be able to break the habit of dropping the left foot during the last 6 inches of the stop, however it may be possible to leave the right foot on the brake.

Just curious what the reasoning is for leaving the right foot on the brake, instead of putting the right foot on the ground?  Assuming of course that the user has the front brakes engaged from the handlebar....

[Steve K (IA)]

I don't stop the Valkyrie any different than any other bike I've ridden.  I almost always stop using the textbook approach...using both front and rear brake with my left foot hitting the ground just before the bike stops followed by the right foot on the ground.

Yes, just as Jim say's, but can I add...keep the handlebars straight.  I believe that is very important otherwise the bike wants to tip in the direction the handlebars are turned to.

[Michael K (Az.)]

Keeping in mind that it should be in 1st gear while stopped, this allows you to use your right foot for the brake while gear engagement will let you take off if need be, wacko coming atchya etc. Shifting in neutral while at a stop will limit your defensive choices.

[mattfidaho]

I thought that was why people put car tires on.... then you dont have to put your feet down when you stop  
 
 

[Michael K (Az.)]

You'd get a tremendous jump in a slow race contest (especially if ya had one onna front,too!).

[fudgie]

All good advice. Esp Willows, if your short inseamed like me. I usually touch toes on each side of the bike. Sometimes I can 'lean or body shift' alittle to one side and put a whole foot down with the other still up on the pegs. If its very heavy stop/go traffic, I just leave my feet down and brake with the hand only. It'll get easy as you go. Sometimes I still have bad stops. Try to practice before you get a passenger or luggage on. It'll change your stopping. Sometimes if can be helpful tho. Before long you'll be able to come to a complete stop without putting your feet down, but watch the local LEO's. 

[Duey]

Way back when I was active military I got to many points on my liscence and had to take a class to keep it.
Since I had to provide the vehicle and all I had was a 750 Honda with bags and fairing I chose the advanced mc course.
Little did I know what I was getting into.. The course was the military version. From Novice to advanced military police riding.
After 4 hours, 3 times a week for 6 weeks I can honestly say I might be able to ride a motorcycle.
But, on to your question....
In the course we were tought to use both brakes as required for the stopping condition.
The normal stop involes a complete stop, then putting both feet down while holding the clutch and front brake. The mc should be in the best gear for a quick takeoff if needed (usually 1st).
The emergency stop is similar but requires applying mostly front brake and ending with both brakes used to finish the stop. Then placing both feet on the ground. Do not lock either brake to cause a skid.
Of course the correct brake to use also depends on the road conditions and a lot of other things. Practice makes perfect or close to it.
The reason for using both feet is simply that the surface under you may not be level or sandy, slippery or some other unknown condition. Since you should be stopped with your head up and looking forward you can't see where your feet are going once you stop. Stopping on 1 foot sets you up for falling over. Some of us have learned that by putting our foot down in the only low spot in a 10 square foot area.
Of course you can decide which way to use since this is a free country and you accept the end results !
That is my $.05 (inflation)

[G-Man]

You bring it in for a landing.   

[Cruzen]

The key word in your question is “Balanced” stop.  The ability to accomplish this with one foot down and one foot up is questionable.  The Valk is heavy and the front end is soft meaning it likes to drop down/compress during a stop  and then when you’re just about stopped it rebounds about 200lbs of front end back at you.  This is especially noticeable if you rely on the front brake for most of your stopping and or come in kind of hot/fast.  Try using more rear brake and less front brake to minimize that action.  I firmly believe that most riders, especially those who learned on motorcycles with drum brakes, do not use enough rear brake and could probably improve their stopping and cornering if they learned to do so.

I ride my 505 lbs Magna during the week.  The transition to a 770lb Valk takes a few stops to get used to.  I use both brakes to reduce speed about 95%.  This reduces the amount of weight being transferred to the front and keeps the front suspension from compressing a lot.  Just prior to completing the stop I put BOTH feet down which allows the entire weight of the bike to be centered.  Once stopped, after assuring that I am not going to get rear ended, I pop it into neutral, which allows me to relax my left hand, and then sit at the light with both feet on the ground.  That is why you were given two legs. 

This one legged drop/stop stuff leaves me confused and I have always questioned the logic/reasoning for doing so.  I half suspect that it originated with someone who did a lot of bicycle riding and had to pick one foot up to start the pedal movement.  They were not used to letting a motor initiate the movement for them.  While it might be OK on one of those 250CC Honda Rebels they run in the training courses it doesn’t make any sense with more weight.  I have actually seen riders, on a windy day drop their bikes at a stop because of that.  If that one foot, with rubber soled boots/shoes is up on a rubber peg and your bike starts going over in that direction chances are good that you won’t be able to get your foot off the peg in time to stop the movement and you’re going down.  The fact that you have it in gear as you go down will only add to the amusement.

Just before the stop light turns green I pop whatever I am riding back into gear,  return the left leg to the ground,  launch with the bike straight, the weight evenly distributed and both feet coming up at the same time. Just like the pros do at the drag strip.  Smooooooth..and quick!

[BF]

I hardly never, if ever, put the bike in netural during a stop at a traffic light.  You just never know when some idiot is gonna rear-end the guym behind you shoving him into you. 

[fudgie]

I hardly never, if ever, put the bike in netural during a stop at a traffic light.  You just never know when some idiot is gonna rear-end the guym behind you shoving him into you. 

Ditto. Unless its busy traffic or a long light.

[NITRO]

From what I was told by a fellow Valk-rider who recently completed a class desigend for moto-officers, the correct way is what Valker stated: left foot on the pavement and rear brake engaged. By doing this, you never lose balance on the bike and you can immediately ride off from that stance without having to regain your balance. Would be handy if you had to move quickly from a cager, right?

[John Schmidt]

You might consider taking an Experienced Rider Course, it's all done at parking lot speeds and you really learn to control the bike, plus evasive maneuvers as well. As for my method, it's pretty much downshifting when approaching a stop, both brakes until the last few feet, then only the rear until I come to a stop whereupon I put my left foot down. Sometimes if just a stop sign I don't even do that. The bike is balanced quite well and if you keep your head up and are looking ahead, you can come to a complete stop then roll off without ever putting a foot down. Actually had a cop stop me on the premise I didn't stop since I didn't put my feet down. I demonstrated for him but had to do it in the PD's parking lot, had quite an audience when I did it, and we all got a good laugh out of it. Especially when a couple riders were asked if they could do that. They couldn't and the razzing began. Needless to say....no tickee.

[Willow]

The key word in your question is “Balanced” stop.  The ability to accomplish this with one foot down ...   Smooooooth..and quick!

Denny, I tried to count the number of points on which I think you're dead wrong.  I failed.  I decided to coiunt the points on which we agree.  I struggled.

I guess that's why there are both blonds and brunettes.

Let me know if you see me sometime.  I'll let you ride out front.

 

[Jess Tolbirt]

From what I was told by a fellow Valk-rider who recently completed a class desigend for moto-officers, the correct way is what Valker stated: left foot on the pavement and rear brake engaged. By doing this, you never lose balance on the bike and you can immediately ride off from that stance without having to regain your balance. Would be handy if you had to move quickly from a cager, right?

from what i am reading with one foot down and one on the brake you can only balance on that side,,,with both feet down and the bike straight up its takes no effort to keep it balanced,,,if only one foot is down and it starts to lean to the right you have to get your foot off that brake and down to the ground anyway to catch it before it gets past "the point of no return"

so here is the way i stop,,,both front and rear brakes untill i am almost stopped then within a couple feet of the stop both feet come down and use 5the front brake then just before the complete stop i start backing off the front brake to let it come to a smooth east stop....under a panic stop all bets are off....

[wildthang1949]

A lot of good information, and I thank you all. As I stated, I don't have a problem with the vtx and it may just be a learning curve with the extra size and weight of the Valk. Maybe she just intiminates me a tad........

[ArmyValker]

You might consider taking an Experienced Rider Course, it's all done at parking lot speeds and you really learn to control the bike, plus evasive maneuvers as well. As for my method, it's pretty much downshifting when approaching a stop, both brakes until the last few feet, then only the rear until I come to a stop whereupon I put my left foot down. Sometimes if just a stop sign I don't even do that. The bike is balanced quite well and if you keep your head up and are looking ahead, you can come to a complete stop then roll off without ever putting a foot down. Actually had a cop stop me on the premise I didn't stop since I didn't put my feet down. I demonstrated for him but had to do it in the PD's parking lot, had quite an audience when I did it, and we all got a good laugh out of it. Especially when a couple riders were asked if they could do that. They couldn't and the razzing began. Needless to say....no tickee.

Have had the same happen to me. For some reason some LEO's think motorcycles can't possibly stop all the way without dropping your feet down. When I'm on post (military post) I put a foot down at every stop to avoid the hassle.

To the OP... when I switched to the Valk, I realized quickly that you gotta concentrate on really using that rear brake when stopping. If you ride the front too much, you'll get a lot of frontend dive and it'll screw up your balance. Practice using more rear brake than your used too when stopping, especially the final few feet.
I also usually only stop with the left foot down, right on the back brake. Reason being, it helps alot when you HAVE to do that on stop signs on inclines and such.

[..]

I hardly never, if ever, put the bike in netural during a stop at a traffic light.  You just never know when some idiot is gonna rear-end the guym behind you shoving him into you. 

Ditto. Unless its busy traffic or a long light.

Too bloody right.

Those of you stopping in neutral, both feet on the ground in the centre of the lane too near to the vehicle in front are simply counting the days until IT HAPPENS TO YOU.

[John Schmidt]

I hardly never, if ever, put the bike in netural during a stop at a traffic light.  You just never know when some idiot is gonna rear-end the guym behind you shoving him into you.  

Ditto. Unless its busy traffic or a long light.

Too bloody right.

Those of you stopping in neutral, both feet on the ground in the centre of the lane too near to the vehicle in front are simply counting the days until IT HAPPENS TO YOU.

When I stop in traffic, I try to always move to one side of the lane and watch the guy behind me. With it in 1st and I see some fool coming up behind me and not paying attention....and it's happened, it gives me an "out" between the cars in front. I seldom put it in neutral unless it's a long light, and I come to a stop with one foot down, and usually stay that way.

[R J]

Way back when I was active military I got to many points on my liscence and had to take a class to keep it.
Since I had to provide the vehicle and all I had was a 750 Honda with bags and fairing I chose the advanced mc course.
Little did I know what I was getting into.. The course was the military version. From Novice to advanced military police riding.
After 4 hours, 3 times a week for 6 weeks I can honestly say I might be able to ride a motorcycle.
But, on to your question....
In the course we were tought to use both brakes as required for the stopping condition.
The normal stop involes a complete stop, then putting both feet down while holding the clutch and front brake. The mc should be in the best gear for a quick takeoff if needed (usually 1st).
The emergency stop is similar but requires applying mostly front brake and ending with both brakes used to finish the stop. Then placing both feet on the ground. Do not lock either brake to cause a skid.
Of course the correct brake to use also depends on the road conditions and a lot of other things. Practice makes perfect or close to it.
The reason for using both feet is simply that the surface under you may not be level or sandy, slippery or some other unknown condition. Since you should be stopped with your head up and looking forward you can't see where your feet are going once you stop. Stopping on 1 foot sets you up for falling over. Some of us have learned that by putting our foot down in the only low spot in a 10 square foot area.
Of course you can decide which way to use since this is a free country and you accept the end results !
That is my $.05 (inflation)

This basically how we were taught in the CHP.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

From what I was told by a fellow Valk-rider who recently completed a class desigend for moto-officers, the correct way is what Valker stated: left foot on the pavement and rear brake engaged. By doing this, you never lose balance on the bike and you can immediately ride off from that stance without having to regain your balance. Would be handy if you had to move quickly from a cager, right?

Agree.

The valk can feel awkward at slow speeds. Downshift as you slow down so you are always in the right gear to get out of trouble if need be. Slip the clutch and let the engine push against the rear brake when going dead slow as in following a line of cars into a four-way stop. Your valk will be much more stable at slow speeds this way. This technique can make foot up stops at intersections the norm.

However, everyone has an awkward stop occasionally.

[Hellcat]

From what I was told by a fellow Valk-rider who recently completed a class desigend for moto-officers, the correct way is what Valker stated: left foot on the pavement and rear brake engaged. By doing this, you never lose balance on the bike and you can immediately ride off from that stance without having to regain your balance. Would be handy if you had to move quickly from a cager, right?

from what i am reading with one foot down and one on the brake you can only balance on that side,,,with both feet down and the bike straight up its takes no effort to keep it balanced,,,if only one foot is down and it starts to lean to the right you have to get your foot off that brake and down to the ground anyway to catch it before it gets past "the point of no return"

so here is the way i stop,,,both front and rear brakes untill i am almost stopped then within a couple feet of the stop both feet come down and use 5the front brake then just before the complete stop i start backing off the front brake to let it come to a smooth east stop....under a panic stop all bets are off....

I've only been on the Valk a couple months, and the above is the way I have learned to come to a stop. First rides on the Valk, I found staying on the right brake all the way to full stop could be awkward at the last moment, so now as always I use both brakes to slow, but the last ten feet is all front brake with both legs out ready to set down my heels. That type of stop is consistently the smoothest, with the least chance of having to wrestle with the bike at little.

Now, the reason may be that I am sticking both feet forward and this helps my brain unconsciously focus on keeping the bike level and the front wheel straight, but no matter what the case, it works.

If I'm at a stop with no one behind me, I do set my rear foot back on the rear brake once I stop so I can be ready for the arriving idiots.

[Dan Manko]

What Daniel said. Head up. A touch too high up won't hurt. Eyes forward. To the horizon. Way out there. Try it you will be surprised.

[Cruzen]

My riding techniques are based on over 40 years of riding between 12,000 and 20,000 per year with two accidents in that time period.

My second accident was being rear ended on a freeway when the traffic had come to a stop.  I was on a Magna.  When the SUV hit me I had the bike in first gear, my front brake locked and it was in first gear.  The vehicle was doing about 30mph when it hit me.  The bike shot out from under me and as I went backward my right hand came off the brake lever however my left hand got caught on the clutch and it pulled my left arm out of socket and the bike attempted to keep going because it was in gear hence dragging me along for about a dozen feet before it choked out.  Another acquaintance of mine had a similar accident several years ago and he claimed his Moto Guzzi reacted in the same manner.  Except he had his foot on the rear brake and when the bike shot out it broke his leg.

I don’t criticize how others ride but I have reasons, based on personal experiences, for doing what I do and it works for me.  I ride 364 days per year doing at least 30 miles per day in one of the most congested, accident prone traffic systems in the country. 

[franco6]

i too prefer the neutral both feet down aproach for the simple reason that i don twant the whole clutch ,hydrolic master , slave cylinder,and clutch springs to stay compressed over time when they don t have to. the same goes with the sports cars and i can say i have vever lost a clutch!

[ThreeAces97]

All great responses.     I feel the Valkyrie is probably the best balanced LARGE motorcycle I have ever been on.   Coming into a stop sign (no visible traffic), I like to come to a complete stop and then take off without ever having to put my feet down.    I got pulled over last summer by LEO who had been sitting behind a gas station.   He said "I pulled you over for failing to come to a complete stop at that stop sign".   I stated that I did come to a complete stop.   He said you did not and you didn't even put your feet down.   I said I can bring this bike to a complete stop, without putting my feet down, and I would be willing to show him in the gas station parking lot.   I was allowed to do this and I proceeded to do three consecutive "stop and go's.  He agreed that I came to a complete stop  and he said take it easy and let me on my way.   
I understand a complete stop is NO Forward motion.   As soon as I feel that I have stopped my forward motion,  I let out the clutch and I am  on my way through
the stop sign.   I couldn't do this for more than a nano second, but I don't believe within the "complete stop" is their a time limit for it to constitute a complete stop.   I don't do this at traffic lights or busy stop sign intersections. 
At lights I am a left footer, while the right has come off the rear brake and is now sitting on the forward highway peg.    Having a passenger makes a big difference in the bikes balance at slow speeds and stopping.  I am 6' 2" and weigh 200lbs and have long legs, flat footing is easy.  My wife doesn't ride, but my 11 year old daughter does and she truly understands her role as a passenger when it comes to slow speeds.    She is a pleasure to have on back.   

[Willow]

My riding techniques are based on over 40 years of riding between 12,000 and 20,000 per year with two accidents in that time period.

Yeah, my reply, no doubt, sounded much more harsh than it needed to be.  It just struck me how that in so many ways everything you chose was 180 degrees from the accepted practice of so many riders.  I'm sure it works well for you, but then most of us can go through life doing things either the best way or the second best way and never have to pay a consequence.

I can see where your experience has caused you to choose what you do.  My experience has influenced me differently.  Again, that's why people have different preferences.

Be safe, Denny.  I very sincerely hope that your way continues to work for you and that mine continues to work for me.    

[x]

It takes time in the saddle to become really good at handling this large motorcycle at slow speeds.  I am finally at a point where I can ride six floors of tight spirals up hill to make it to the parking garage in one the shopping malls here... made all the more exciting when the car in front of me doesn't actually go fast enough for me to simply ride up.
 
Practice!  In Singapore, if you want to pass the motorcycle license test, not only do you put your left foot down at a stop, you will put your heel down first, and conclude with your foot flat on the ground.  Sounds weird but if you practice this you soon find that you become naturally smoother in the coordination of brakes, throttle, and feet... you stop and put your heel down to a flat foot.
 
Slow turns... in a parking lot permit yourself to take your slow turns to the limit... until it feels like the bike will fall over... you get to understand the 'envelope' in which the Valk operates.
 
I've got a 100,000 miles on Valks and now about 30,000 of in town driving... it is practice and time in the saddle... I can split lanes with 2 inches or less on the mirrors... quick flips into open spots... and stops where I almost don't need to put my feet down at all... the sensation of balance will come with time.

[houstone]

Probably a good idea to double check your tire pressure.  If it's low, it'll feel squishy and won't help you out at all. 
Also, I use all methods mentioned above, depends on the situation.  Be ready to do any of them!
Welcome aboard the Valk, your life will be changed!
Jeff

[asfltdncr]

As many of the members have said-stop, then put left foot down.The timing is the important part.One part of my MSF training that comes to mind is that maybe you are going too slow in your stopping process.Speed equals stability.You should have a certain amount of speed,even when stopping.
You might try working on your stopping on a bicycle.

[Rocketman]

Quite an interesting discussion, but we seem to be dodging one question that has been brought up:
Why put only the left foot down, or why put both feet down?  I have seen the discussion about nuetral vs. 1st gear, and while it's a good discussion, is not relevant to the feet down question.  Shifting into nuetral or 1st prior to the complete stop (or immediately after, as to your preference) is easy enough.  The closest I've seen to answering the question is the exhortation to use rear brake to add stability.  OK, so maybe that precludes you from putting the right foot down immediately.  Maybe not.  Either way, once you're stopped, why not put that right foot down during the wait at a light?  The bike is already stopped.  You can hold it on a hill with front brake.  You can be in whatever gear butters your bread.  Why would you not want the extra foot down, to straighten the bike up and ease your takeoff?  If you really have to, due to an extreme hill, or other need to have the brake on during takeoff (?) you could put the foot back up.

Comments?

[RedValk]

I'm probably going to regret saying this.....

But i'll admit it. YES....SOMETIMES....i do put my bike in neutral at lights. It's VERY situational. IE....if there are several cars ....already stopped....sitting behind you....then ....IN THAT SITUATION...i'm not nearly as concerned about a 'quick escape'. so, YES.....in a situation LIKE that...i might put my bike in neutral. Especially at a long light. and YES, i sometimes put both feet down. it makes for easy balance.

but likewise, sometimes....based ON THE SITUATION...i might leave the bike in gear...and/or only put one foot down. Depending on my surroundings, traffic, etc.

So i think to say "generically" you can NEVER put the bike in neurtral...or put both feet down...etc., is NOT correct. i think the KEY...is to remain aware of your environment...the situation you are in.....and know the best techniques, skills, approach to take...to keep safe. same thing goes for lane positions, use of brakes, etc. there is no "one rule fits all" situations.

anyway, there are MANY situations...where i do indeed put both legs down when stopping (ok, RIGHT AFTER STOPPING.....not in the actual act  )...and MANY situations when i put the bike in neutral at a light....BUT ONLY AFTER ANALYZING my surroundings.

Hey, when you live in Alabama, there is ONE MORE important safety technique you must almost always apply: Before stopping at any light....no matter how long it has been red...or no matter if it is about to turn red.....etc......you best be looking in your mirror to see if all the Rednecks behind you plan on running that red light   

Anyway, i used to be a safety instructor...been riding since 1973....many miles ridden....etc. And....my opinion is slightly different from some here. Thus like others have said, everyone has opinions....sometimes they're different...sometimes...it's more is the glass half full or half empty....etc......