High Pitch Shrill From Front of Engine

[RonW]

Last week while entering the freeway I heard a high-pitch shrill. I naturally thought it was from the car in the next lane, but today realized it wasn't from nearby cars traveling the same direction etc. Was riding up a parking garage this morning and at every turn to the next higher parking level I hear the same high pitch shrill. When traveling straight in the direction to the 180° turn to the next upper parking level, the engine is quiet or normal. I park the bike but keep the engine running, transmission in neutral, and the 'shrill' seems to be coming from the lower part of the front of the engine. Has anybody heard this too?

Is this an early sign that a timing belt pulley is going on the blink, or water pump? If I rev the engine while parked in neutral, the sound disappears. It definitely couldn't be the brake pads because the wheels aren't moving when parked so no cicadas. Only seems to happen when the engine is at the temperature of riding for a while.

[8Track]

Take a look around the site here. Most likely the Buzz Bolt, the sound or square cut gears, or timing belts/tensioners need looking at.

[Brian]

Mine was a timing belt tensioner pulley. These can be easily rebuilt using a Gates idler pulley for under $25 verses $90 for OEM. My defective OEM had side to side wobble and spin freely. About 7,000 miles on this rebuilt unit with no problems.

[DarkSideR]

Last time I heard something like that it was the front wheel bearings.

[Valkorado]

Last time I heard something like that it was the front wheel bearings.

+1

[longrider]

If it makes the noise as you said with the bike sitting in neutral then I think you've narrowed it down to the belt tensioners.  Not difficult to replace.   Is it time to replace belts as well while you're in there?

[RonW]

If it's the belt tensioners, that's a huge relief. I can deal with that. Fix that. Working 6-7 days a week so don't want to end up doing a rush job on something more serious. No silicone sealant needed on that particular cover bolt?

[Tfrank59]

Yes, it sure sounds like it must be your timing belts and or tensioners. A good check for that that won't be too costly on time or effort would be to remove the timing belt cover and run the bike – you should be able to hear it more pronounced with the cover off. I'm not saying ride the bike like that though . Oh yeah, I didn't put any sealant on that one bolt, but I guess the manual and some guys on this forum say you're supposed to.

[Bighead]

I Still want to know what a Shrill is?

[NewValker]

Shrill = Hillary Clinton...

[Bighead]

Ahhhh and here I thought that was a female Shrek

[Simmy74]

Don't all the Valks make a screaming whine under throttle?  I like how it sounds like a Lysholm twin screw blower, or basically. .. a fat angry Norse dragon flying in to rip souls off the battle field.  Is that normal?

[Ricky-D]

Some times on Valkyrie's that have all their vacuum hoses (not desmogged) an old and maybe cracked hose will make that sort of noise because it is

leaking air. So, if your Valkyrie is not desmogged, don't discount the possibility the noise could be coming from a bad vacuum hose.

***

[Tfrank59]

Shrill = Hillary Clinton...

That's a mechanical fact--all a-sonorous engine noises are to be called "hillaries" --watch out for them, as they significantly shorten engine life (don't do the country much good either, IMO).

[RonW]

I'm unable to articulate the sound any better than a 'shrill' unless I record an audio and post it here. RickyD, it is not due to a mangled or raptured vacuum hose. I think it's rubber dust caked on the timing tensioner wheel albeit my theory. I've been doing a few 100-mph plus sustained bursts on the commute to and from work where usually the fastest I ride is 80-mph. So the increased speed might have been the culprit. At any rate, the occurrence of the shrill got less and less yesterday. And none at all today. I think the dust on the tensioner wheel just got rubbed off if indeed it was dust particles to begin with causing the sound. Tomorrow permitting perhaps no shrill.

[Simmy74]

Ironically,  the Shrill was also defeated in Michigan in Tuesday's primary votes

[RonW]

don't mean to change the subject, but how long does it take to take off the timing belt cover and put back the darn thing. I only have a basement parking stall to work in. Later on change the tensioner wheels and belts.

[Brian]

don't mean to change the subject, but how long does it take to take off the timing belt cover and put back the darn thing. I only have a basement parking stall to work in. Later on change the tensioner wheels and belts.

Don't throw out the old tensioners. Send them to me to be rebuilt. You are looking at a few hours to do this work. The good thing, it can be done on the side stand. Good luck.

[gordonv]

To take the cover off, only what? 9 bolts? How long would that take you?

[RonW]

• if you rebuilt the tensioners, whom owns those, lol.

• 9 bolts, sure, but I work as a carpenter & there are snags and there are snags and so on, albeit plumb & level in carpentry, but some of those make a 20 minute job a 2 hour job. I don't have any other transportation at the moment. My Honda 600 isn't running becuz of 7 days a week work schedule pre-empts repairs. So I really need to replace the tensioners getting into night time but button up things before dawn. Btw, the shrill is back.

[Brian]

• if you rebuilt the tensioners, whom owns those, lol.

• 9 bolts, sure, but I work as a carpenter & there are snags and there are snags and so on, albeit plumb & level in carpentry, but some of those make a 20 minute job a 2 hour job. I don't have any other transportation at the moment. My Honda 600 isn't running becuz of 7 days a week work schedule pre-empts repairs. So I really need to replace the tensioners getting into night time but button up things before dawn. Btw, the shrill is back.

Me of course, unless you want them back for spares. We can work something out $. Send me a PM.

[gordonv]

I think it should take you less than 10 minutes to take off the bolts and the cover. Just spend a little time reading the service manual (available from http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html).

Then start up the bike and listen for that Shrill. If it is the tensioner, it should be louder without the cover on.

You haven't figured it out yet, have you?

[RonW]

no I haven't figured it out, true, but my mind is on the blink. You see.

[longrider]

If you haven't removed the cover yet.  Be sure and have the engine warmed up first. Honda put loctite on the second bolt top left side. It'll let go easier but you may want a pair of gloves on if the cover is hot

[gordonv]

Except it seems to make the noise on start up, and go away after heating. But you could loosen the bolts on the warm/hot engine, and then remove the cover the next morning, Saturday is coming.

[58Woody]

Have you changed anti - freeze lately ?
You must run silicate free , Or you will get a Hillary. I mean high pitched shrill.
I know this .

[DK]

Bear in mind that you can ride the bike to work with the cover off.

Doing this might give you further options.

Dan

[RonW]

Tonight I put in the new tensioners. As I was removing the right-side tensioner, I felt the right cam wheel move (rotate) a little but didn't think nothing of it becuz it was slightly. Tightened the 4 bolts up. Started up the engine with the timing cover off and by the sounds of it, I think I might have bent some valves. Moral is don't work on these things when you're working 7 days a week especially in a dimly lit basement parking stall. Otherwise just possibly I might have double-checked the alignment of the hash marks especially on an interference engine. Perhaps tugging on the tensioner wheel to achieve the right amount of flex on the timing belt (5-8mm, per manual) pulled things out of alignment too.

With the current situation, the right-side cam wheel (driven gear), it's 'UP' marks only align with the factory hash marks when they're oriented upside down. When the 'UP' marks are rotated such that they're right-side up, they land either 45° above or pass the factory mark. The left-side cam wheel .... when the 'UP' mark is rotated such that the 'UP' mark is upside down, the 'UP' mark lands 45° above or pass the factory mark, but the 'UP' mark aligns with the factory mark when the 'UP' mark is oriented right-side up, the way it should, again on the left cam wheel. Whereas, the 'UP' marks on the right-side cam wheel is the reverse situation. I can't get the 'UP' mark on the right-side cam wheel to land on the factory mark when it's 'UP' marks are facing up. As previously stated the moral of the story is and was. On top of all of this I can't make it to work tomorrow since its my only mode of transportation. I have a Honda 600 but haven't had the time to fix it. Maybe tomorrow.

[Simmy74]

Did the bad sound happen right on start-up?  Are you sure it's toast?
Keep in mind the two cam wheel "up" marks will align with the crank T1.2 mark and all three arrow marks on the block- only once every several rotations when cyl 1 is top dead center.  This reference point is home base for checking everything.   Try rotating the crank by hand with a 17mm wrench and see if you feel valve contact or can get it around a few revolutions until the timing is aligned again.   

[indybobm]

If you draw a line from the mark on one side of the cam gear to the other mark, you will see that the marks are offset toward the bottom of the gear. It does not split the gear in half. I think the right side cam gear is off one tooth with the belt. That is why the mark only aligns when the 'UP' is upside down.

[RonW]

Did the bad sound happen right on start-up?

Yea right on start up. Not too loud but sorta a metallic sound. After I shut off the engine, the 'UP' marks on the right-side cam wheel was aligned horizontally with the factory hash mark. After that instance can't get the 'UP' marks on the R. cam wheel to land horizontally when I rotate the R. cam wheel by hand. The only time the R. cam wheel's 'UP' mark lands horizontally on the factory hash mark is when the it's 'UP' marks are upside down. The cam wheels rotate in 90° increments or detents (with the tensioners off the assembly) *except* when the R. cam wheel 'UP' marks are right-side up, then that cam wheel lands (rotates) either 45° above or pass the factory hash mark to the next detent. The left-side cam wheel duplicates this but only in reference to it's 'UP' marks oriented upside down. When the 'UP' marks on the L. cam wheel (good wheel ?) are oriented right side up, the 'UP' marks land on the cardinal points. Will post pics. I have the day off.

That is why the mark only aligns when the 'UP' is upside down.

I was thinkin this, but then the manual shows both 'UP' marks facing right side up at the proper setting.

[indybobm]

The reason the marks align when the 'UP' is upside down is because it is one tooth off.. Also, make sure that you you are rotating the engine in the correct direction when aligning the marks.

This is what I meant about the marks on the cam gear not being directly across from each other. When the gear is upside down, you have to rotate the cam to get the marks to line up. If the marks line up when it is upside down, they will not line up right side up.

[RonW]

I was referring to the right cam pulley's 'UP' mark as compared to the left cam pulley's 'UP' marks, the respective inner marks of each unit's pair of marks specifically how the inner marks align with the factory hash mark that's on the metal case. When the marks on the R. pulley are upside down, only then do the whichever inner 'UP' mark align with the factory hash mark.




Whereas, when the R. cam pulley's 'UP' marks are right side up, and the R. pulley is rotated (counter clockwise) the inner 'UP' mark lands either 45° before or 45° pass the factory hash mark (pics below). This is also true of the L. pulley's 'UP' marks, but only *when* the L. pulley's 'UP' marks are upside down then they land harmlessly 45° before or 45° pass the factory hash mark on that side of the timing belt assembly. Obviously something got askew with the R. pulley's orientation since only when it's 'UP' mark is upside down should the 'UP' mark land 45° before or 45° pass the factory hash mark if what is true of the L. pulley is true of the R. pulley.






.... I have tried rotating the crankshaft pulley ..... belts and timing tensioners installed .... to get the R. pulley's 'UP' marks to align with the factory hash mark when the 'UP' mark is upright, but it ain't happening. & the cam lobes aren't being lubed with the engine off, so don't want to score the cam lobes if I were to keep rotating the cam pulleys.

Another thing, the manual states to tighten the belts so the tensioner wheel can spin easily etc. But when gauged this way, I'm getting more then the 5-7mm flex at the midpoint of the belt. If I adjust to the 5-7mm per manual, then the timing tensioner won't spin easily, actually on the tight side.

[indybobm]

I guess I do not understand how you are doing this.
Each cam pulley has 40 teeth, the center crank pulley has 20 teeth. That means the crankshaft has to rotate twice for each revolution of the camshaft(s). That also means that if you are checking the cams alignment with the mark on the housing when the crank is at T1.2 , the cam marks can never be 45 degrees off. If they are, then the crank is NOT at T1.2 and is not in the proper position to check the marks. You might want to post a picture of the crank pulley when the cam marks are 45 degrees off. I just do not see how this can happen. There are other marks on the crankshaft pulley to facilitate valve adjustment for different cylinders (T3.4, T5.6), please double check that you using the correct one.  Also, rotating the engine should not hurt the camshaft lobes or lifters.

[longrider]

Ronw It looks to me that you do not understand how to time this engine.  Indybobm is correct.  The first step is to get the t-1 mark in the correct horizontal position.  Only then will the first cylinder line up so the valves are at top dead centre.  at this point I would remove the valve covers to see if they hang open.  Every time I have installed belts foe my valk or others the first thing I do after the tensioner adjust is rotate the engine by hand or with a socket to be sure it spins freely.  These engines can run one tooth of with no harm.  I found one from the factory this way

[Ricky-D]

And all this because of a noise that had not been determined to have been emitted from anywhere. #blowupmyengine

All you shade tree mechanics take notice. #icanfixitmyself

***

[Tfrank59]

We are all Shadetree mechanics trying to help each other out. Honda dealers won't help out, or even if they will they don't know what's going on with our 19 year-old motorcycles. Nobody's an expert, at least not in technical sense of the word, some of us have just toyed with these girls longer than others. This is a place where those with more experience can give guidance to the rest of us. I don't see a problem with that.  Ron I hope you can get your machine going, despite your apparently less than optimal working conditions.

[RonW]

Thanks for the replies, RickyD maybe. I referenced the graphic in the manual shown below. The point is I didn't think the cam pulleys would shift with a simple tensioner change just taking the old tensioners out and bolting the new tensioners on. That's mainly the reason I skipped the step of checking the alignment marks. Of course when you're crawling on the basement floor with a headlamp thinking of having to wake up at 4am the next morning, perception isn't 't that pristine under the light of expediency.




As stated the 'UP' marks on the R. cam pulley either lands angled 45° above horizontal or 45° below horizontal. This is with the 'UP' marks facing upright.






Only when the 'UP' marks are upside down on the R. pulley, do they align level with the factory hash marks.




This isn't a problem with the L. pulley (pic below).




At least on my bike, the cam pulleys rotate in increments like they are subject to detentes since the cam lobes are pushing against the coil valve springs until the lobes are rotated such that the respective springs or combination of springs releases its pressure on the cam lobes. That is, the cam pulleys can't be fine turned a few degrees at a time. They jump with authority to the next notch as the cam pulley is rotated. These 'notches' are  90° apart for the most part, or plus or minus 45° when undesired on the R. pulley.

Now there in lies the problem, namely I cannot dial the R. pulley's 'UP' mark to land horizontal and as a result obviously these angled 'UP' marks won't ever be in a level line such that they align with the factory hash mark which is horizontal. The R. pulley's 'UP' marks jump to their next detent always either 45° shy or pass horizontal, crankshaft pulley at T 1-2. The L. pulley's 'UP' mark does align with the factory 'UP' mark in a horizontal line (pic above).

So, the L. pulley is on the money, the crankshaft pulley is on the money at T 1-2, but the R. pulley is offset by 45°. Again, I cannot turn the cam pulleys a degree at a time for a fine tune adjustment.

The oddity is only when the R. pulley's 'UP' marks are upside down do the 'UP' marks land horizontal with the factory hash mark. This 45° offset happens on the L. pulley too, but only when the L. pulley's 'UP' marks are facing upside down. When the L. pulley's 'UP' marks are oriented upright, the L. pulley's 'UP' marks land horizontal, level and aligned with the factory hash mark as they should. In a nutshell, this is the converse of the incremental movement of the R. pulley 'UP' marks. At the moment I suspect the culprit is some bent valves.

[indybobm]

Did you remove the sparkplugs before changing the tensioner? This removes the compression that tries to turn the engine (and cams). It also makes it easier to rotate the the engine when turning the crankshaft to check alignment marks.

I understand what you are describing in relation to the right cam gear. I just do not see any way that that is possible. Maybe another Valk owner that is close to you could lend a hand?

[Skinhead]

You need to rotate the cam, with a wrench so that the right cam, left cam, and Crank are in the correct positions, if you feel STRONG resistance, DO NOT force things, that is how valves get bent.  Then slip the belts on while holding the cams in position so they don't move off the alignment marks.

Unfortunately, if you have already started the engine with the cams out of time, the damage may be done.