tightening the axle...

[hubcapsc]

I was working on the Log Truck last Friday when work
spun up, now I'm in California and the Log Truck is partially
assembled back in South Carolina.

While moving back and forth between my laptop and the Log
Truck all day on Saturday, I put the shocks back on before
tightening the axle...

I reached up in there and tightened the axle with an adjustable
wrench, but I'm not satisfied with that... I've been thinking I'll
get a 27mm box-end from Lowes when I get home and it will fit
up in there and I'll get the axle nut satisfyingly tight that way...

Will the 27 box-end wrench really fit up in there like I'm
imagining?

Here's the Log Truck for those who don't read my ramblings on
the general board...



-Mike

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I don't have a 27 mm wrench but looks like you could get the opened end on there for 1/4 turn at a time due to the shape of the swingarm. Holding a 7/8 just to see I don't think there's enough room to get the boxend on.

[Daniel Meyer]

You should loosen the 4 nuts that hold the pumpkin on to the swing-arm before tightening the axle.

I think the wrench would get in there (would on a standard anyway).

[Bagger John - #3785]

You should loosen the 4 nuts that hold the pumpkin on to the swing-arm before tightening the axle.

I think the wrench would get in there (would on a standard anyway).

This is the correct approach.

[hubcapsc]

I don't have a 27 mm wrench but looks like you could get the opened end on there for 1/4 turn at a time due to the shape of the swingarm. Holding a 7/8 just to see I don't think there's enough room to get the boxend on.

Fooey... the open end will only be a little more confidence inspiring than
the adjustable wrench, but it will be longer and have that feel I'm looking
for... I don't use the torque wrench on the axle (maybe I should), rather I
tighten it until it "feels" right... I don't need to make it harder than it
is... I could just take the shocks back off and use the 27mm socket   ...

-Mike

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I don't have a 27 mm wrench but looks like you could get the opened end on there for 1/4 turn at a time due to the shape of the swingarm. Holding a 7/8 just to see I don't think there's enough room to get the boxend on.

Fooey... the open end will only be a little more confidence inspiring than
the adjustable wrench, but it will be longer and have that feel I'm looking
for... I don't use the torque wrench on the axle (maybe I should), rather I
tighten it until it "feels" right... I don't need to make it harder than it
is... I could just take the shocks back off and use the 27mm socket   ...

-Mike

Would be worth the peace of mind to do it right

[hubcapsc]

You should loosen the 4 nuts that hold the pumpkin on to the swing-arm before tightening the axle.

They're still loose...   (I put in a new u-joint)...

I think the wrench would get in there (would on a standard anyway).

I hope you're right... I'd like to just bolt the last few things back on and go for
a test ride Sunday afternoon after being out here all week... the bags are still
off, so it's a standard right now   ...

BTW: I reused the old u-joint boot and used Lady Draco's "unroll it" method
to get it back on to the swingarm... it was only a tiny bit frustrating...

BTW-2: Hang in there Daniel on the storms and stuff...

-Mike

[Patrick]

I really don't often use a torque on that axle fastener either. If I remember correctly that spec is 80#. I usually end up around the 70# range which is plenty. That nut is not going anywhere, it'll stay put.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Interesting..... The front and rear axles are the only thing I use a torque wrench on. 

[indybobm]

Maybe you could remove the nuts holding the rear of the exhaust on and pull the exhaust away enough to get the box wrench in there.

[hubcapsc]

Maybe you could remove the nuts holding the rear of the exhaust on and pull the exhaust away enough to get the box wrench in there.

the only thing that might be in the way is the shape, or profile, of the swingarm
where the axlenut seats in... that's why an open-end might get in there and a
box-end might not...

-Mike "I think..."

[Chrisj CMA]

OK, two things.  And I just read Patrick's post about old men, so I don't really care what anyone else thinks, I have been doing rear wheels on eight or so Valkyries for years and I know Im right.

1.  The Torque setting on the axel is 81, that is high but its for a reason and its not just so it don't come loose.  There is a solid torque line of steel from the nut to the head of the axle.  These parts, spacers and bearings need to act like a solid bar of steel to maintain integrity for the drive system, and achieve alignment of the final drive.  So don't scrimp its only takes a second or two more to make sure its right.

2.  The axle should be torqued BEFORE tightening the 4 final drive bolts and BEFORE attaching the right side shock so nothing is impeding the mating of the wheel and final drive, that is how alignment is achieved.  That's why I hate when people say you should torque four final drive to swing arm nuts last.  Not last, right after the axle nut and right before attaching the right side shock.


OK, off my soapbox.  Just do it right, final drives are getting harder to find!

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Maybe you could remove the nuts holding the rear of the exhaust on and pull the exhaust away enough to get the box wrench in there.

the only thing that might be in the way is the shape, or profile, of the swingarm
where the axlenut seats in... that's why an open-end might get in there and a
box-end might not...

-Mike "I think..."

It's the exhaust that kept me from getting the boxend on when I looked for you.

[Chrisj CMA]

You should loosen the 4 nuts that hold the pumpkin on to the swing-arm before tightening the axle.

They're still loose...   (I put in a new u-joint)...

I think the wrench would get in there (would on a standard anyway).

I hope you're right... I'd like to just bolt the last few things back on and go for
a test ride Sunday afternoon after being out here all week... the bags are still
off, so it's a standard right now   ...

BTW: I reused the old u-joint boot and used Lady Draco's "unroll it" method
to get it back on to the swingarm... it was only a tiny bit frustrating...

BTW-2: Hang in there Daniel on the storms and stuff...

-Mike

Mike, it won't even take 15 minutes to remove the shocks, attach your turn buckle thinggy, torque the axle, then torque the four bolts and then replace the shocks

[hubcapsc]

Mike, it won't even take 15 minutes to remove the shocks, attach your turn buckle thinggy, torque the axle, then torque the four bolts and then replace the shocks

Yeah, it seemed like a drag on hectic Saturday when I had to give up
putting the bike back together, but it won't be nothing but a thang
this Sunday when I'll have eight sunny hours after Church to
tighten the axle properly and ride around on some neighborhood
roads to test it out...

The work interference resulted in the successful completion of a
risky three year project, but I wish I had had all day to work on the
bike like I thought I would... I didn't get a chance to do the "vise test"
on the new u-joint so that I could feel the difference between it and
the old one... two of us felt the tiny looseness in the old one, though,
so I'm confident it was worth replacing...

-Mike

[pancho]

Mike,, you reused  old u-joint?? I thought you determined there was some play in it when you put it into your neighbors vice..??
Chris got it nailed on the reasons why the axle should be torqued properly, rigidity of all the associated parts .  There is a lot of torque being applied on that plane as the final changes the direction of rotation, especially under hard acceleration.  I have two torque wrenches, different ranges of sweet spot, and use them a lot on the Valk.

[hubcapsc]

Mike,, you reused  old u-joint?? I thought you determined there was some play in it when you put it into your neighbors vice..??
Chris got it nailed on the reasons why the axle should be torqued properly, rigidity of all the associated parts .  There is a lot of torque being applied on that plane as the final changes the direction of rotation, especially under hard acceleration.  I have two torque wrenches, different ranges of sweet spot, and use them a lot on the Valk.

No, I put the new u-joint in, I just didn't take the time to do the
"vise test" on it so that I could feel the difference between
it and the old one that we (me and neighbor Dan) agreed had some
slack in it.

I have a beam torque wrench that I should use on the axle, but I
usually just tighten it... I hope I report Sunday night that I took
the shocks off, torqued the axle, tightened the four nuts, replaced
the shocks, bolted all the other stuff back on and took a good ride 

-Mike

[Red Diamond]

If you torque by feel, you can use an 1 1/16" open end on that nut. Should you choose to use a torque wrench, you can still use the same size in a crows foot type open end. Don't forget the Allen backup.

[hubcapsc]

It just took a second to take the shocks off and check the torque on
the axle nut, tighten the four nuts and put the shocks back on... I
had done OK on the torque with the crescent wrench    ...

It took a little longer to remember how this went back together,
I had plenty of room last Saturday to unroll the old u-joint boot
back on, though:



Then on to fixing my leaky shift seal...



Got the mess cleaned up some, I'll have to go after again with
some degreaser and a brush...



I followed Daniel Meyer's instructions, the package says "4 X 03" now,
so I guess that's not a cross-reference number...



http://lifeisaroad.com/valkshiftseal.html

50 (s)miles later it was still leak free...



I took pictures of my other stuff last week as I cleaned it up and
put it back together... my flange and drive splines aren't any worse
than they were last year...







I guess I forgot to take one of the cup, so much for record keeping...

I went for an awesome test ride, I guess I'll post those pictures on
the general board...

-Mike

[0leman]

I have been using a 1 1/16"  box in wrench to tighten/loosen the axle nut since 2008.  I have almost 70k miles that I have put on (100k on the clock).  that's 7  times taking off the axle and replacing it.  No problems reaching the nut sitting on the floor behind her.

[Gryphon Rider]

I followed Daniel Meyer's instructions, the package says "4 X 03" now,
so I guess that's not a cross-reference number...

I am pretty sure that is a manufacturing lot number, and has nothing to do with the size.  Most other Honda parts have a similar number, and if you look at photos of otherwise identical parts, that number will change while the part number stays the same.

[da prez]

My turn on the soap  box. When  torquing , it takes 10% more to move a nut or bolt. So if you torque  to 75 fp, and then go to 80 , there is no increase in torque. The wrench   will click , but no increase. This was  learned and proven in a tech school many years ago. Torque  to 65 or so and then to 81. I do it this way without  problems .
  I know there will  be some doubters , but it is like the greased pig theory , pretty soon , you realize  that  the pig enjoys the fight.

                    da.prez

[hubcapsc]

My turn on the soap  box. When  torquing , it takes 10% more to move a nut or bolt. So if you torque  to 75 fp, and then go to 80 , there is no increase in torque. The wrench   will click , but no increase. This was  learned and proven in a tech school many years ago. Torque  to 65 or so and then to 81. I do it this way without  problems .
  I know there will  be some doubters , but it is like the greased pig theory , pretty soon , you realize  that  the pig enjoys the fight.

                    da.prez

If my beam wrench clicks, something broke! 

-Mike

[pancho]

Did the new u-joint take care of the problem Mike?

[hubcapsc]

Did the new u-joint take care of the problem Mike?

I'll have to do some aggressive 80+mph Interstate type
riding to really know... I went for a fun test ride Sunday on
farm roads and rode to work on Monday,  all I know is that it
seems great and I know for sure that my driveline is good from
one end to the other 



-Mike

[big poppa pump]

My turn on the soap  box. When  torquing , it takes 10% more to move a nut or bolt. So if you torque  to 75 fp, and then go to 80 , there is no increase in torque. The wrench   will click , but no increase. This was  learned and proven in a tech school many years ago. Torque  to 65 or so and then to 81. I do it this way without  problems .
  I know there will  be some doubters , but it is like the greased pig theory , pretty soon , you realize  that  the pig enjoys the fight.

                    da.prez

Ross, I never knew this. However, call it luck or intuition, I've always been doing it this way, increments of 15-20 ft/lbs.

[Patrick]

I've watched folks incorrectly use torque wrenches for decades.
But, there is a right and wrong way [ well, more than one] to do just about anything and that includes a torque value. Alway sneak up on the value.

[Gryphon Rider]

I've watched folks incorrectly use torque wrenches for decades.
But, there is a right and wrong way [ well, more than one] to do just about anything and that includes a torque value. Alway sneak up on the value.

I see no point in "sneaking up" on the specified torque of a single fastener, like an axle nut.  I do see the point of having the nut turning as you reach the specified torque, rather than ending one swing of the wrench without it clicking, then having it click at the beginning of the next swing.  It takes more force to overcome the initial friction from a stop than it does to keep something moving.