When I ev engine till 4500 or more - white smoke !!!!

[FLATSIX]

Hello,

I noticed today that with a hot motor at idle - then blieping the throttle to 4500 - 5000 rpm I see no visual gasses coming out of exhaust, but few seconds later I see a cloud of white smoke coming out exhaust and going upwards like a cloud.

It is like when motor is cold and idling, then there is white smoke coming out exhausts and climbing upwards like a cloud- now I have this at hot engine when blieping the throttle. (white cloud comes out of each exhaust)

Also when I start cold engine, the left exhaust is directly giving white cloud and much more and earlier then the left. After a few minutes they both give the same white gasses (water) that climb like clouds.

I inspected the oil : all normall , inspected the reserve-watertank : liquid looks normal.

SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT THIS ????

[Earl in Pensacola]

Without actually seeing (and smelling) the "white cloud" myself, I'd say you're headed in the right direction by watching both the oil level AND coolant.  Check the inside of the exhaust pipe ends, oily or wet?   

[FLATSIX]

Inside of exhaust pipe ends : darkgrey color - not oily and not wet.

I don't do many miles - so it will be difficult to see what is wrong .

Do I have to worry : I bliep the throttle till 4000-5000 rpm : nothing to see, but then the 2 white clouds of smoke come out of exhausts and climb to heaven....

I don't smell anti-freeze.

What can it be? Do I have to worry ?

[Dave Weaver]

Have you added any fuel additives lately?  Mine will show white smoke if I add Seafoam.

[FLATSIX]

No, I did synchronize the carbs several times - motor was running at idle longtime, but fan came always on, temperature did not go in the red (I have a temp.meter on the bike).

I also changed the pilotscrews by 6 new (turned them all 2.25 out) + after that another synchronisation and severan testrides at full throttle to test - but always with hot motor.

I never added anything to the fuel.

[Ricky-D]

You don't state how many miles on the motor.

When you blip the motor to 5k which is a tad high it can create a negative pressure in the cylinder thus drawing oil past the rings and burning off as a cloud of smoke.

If this is a regular thing you do and it only started recently, then it may be because you changed brand on motor oil.

Smoking on the left side only, is side stand related, since oil is in greater quantity on the left side when on the side stand.

Smoking from a cold motor would indicate a richness in the fuel/air mixture.

Smoking from a hot motor would indicate oil burning.

There are other possible reasons, but not as likely as the ones mentioned above.


***

[Sodbuster]

Is it possible that head gaskets are bad ??

[FLATSIX]

How can I see/test if the head haskets are bad or not bad ?

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

How can I see/test if the head haskets are bad or not bad ?

If it was because of head gaskets, I think you'd be loosing water/antifreeze and you stated that the level was correct.

[FLATSIX]

I do very few kilometers / miles - have now 26.000 km on 13 years..........

So I will be watching the waterlevel in the reservereservoir under the left sidecover.

the white fume cannot be oil - color is the whitest white. When I rev engine there is nothing visible coming out the exhausts, when needle is back to 900 rpm then only you see symmetrical coming the 2 white clouds slowly climbing to the sky.

Perhaps it has something to do with the 6 rubber vacuumhoses L= +/- 2 feet that are attached to the intaketubes on the nipples - I did this to be able to synchronise the carbs , Kingbee has this system also on 1 bike. I noticed that when you go for I drive to warm up before do the sync , these tubes are a little filled with gasoil, they are closed by the OEM rubber nipple on top, when I take of that nipple for sync I see gasoil coming out, only drops, but it is there.
Perhaps with the vacuum of the enginerev - these gasoil is aspired and get burned and comes out in white cloud?

I don't know?

[Blackduck]

Flatsix,
Are you having to add oil to it between oil changes?
Very unlikely you have any problems with the head gaskets.
The earlier post regarding a side stand issue is correct, oil will flow past the rings on the left side and burn on start up.
If it is burning oil while revving up it is more likely to be a problem with valve stem seals.
Unless it is bad and smoking all time and using oil I would not be to worried.
A compression check will clear up any concerns about head gaskets and piston ring condition.
Also the other post regarding recent oil change is a possibility. A differenyt oil could cause this.
Cheers Blackduck

[Dag]

Take a sniff next time you start it up. Coolant burning will smell sweet.
I wouldn't be too concerned, I would be more concerned if it was doing it when warm though.

[Joe Hummer]

My $0.02 worth...it is condensation being formed right at the tailpipes as the hot (possibly superheated) gases meet the cooler air around the pipe.  You see this on cold days from cars.  What have the temperature/humidity been in Belgium lately?  

Not trying to be belittling..but why are you revving the motor up to 4500-5000 rpms after it has been idling like that?  I could see maybe 2500, but not 4500.  Are you trying to impress a HD rider?  Doing the nickle-trick? I too have been guilty of revving the motor but I try not to rev it that high unless I am in gear running down the road.  

Joe

[FLATSIX]

Yes Dag, I will take a sniff of the "white cloud" next time the motor is hot. It does it when I rev motor on hot engine...  I will check the level of the waterreservoir, but as I don't do many miles it will take a long time before I will notice if it consumes water.

i rev the motor to see if it reacts well, and to see how the needle drops , because the Lady is not so fast anymore like she was before my "airfilter with foam- history". With the new airboxcover with new foam in it she acts +/- well, byt the WAW-factor has disappeared.

Since I bought her new 13 years ago I have also that misfiring when cold at 2500-3000 rpm, that is another reason why I do rev more then if this problem was not there. I surely would like to get rid of that, but tried everything in my power and without result.

You are right, a motor that acts and performs very well has not to be revved up 

[Rattlebars]

Rule of thumb for exhaust color diagnosis.

Blue or gray:  Oil
cause - rings or valves bad letting oil into the chamber
Smell - it will stink like burning oil

White:  Water
cause - condensation in the exhaust pipes, water in the fuel tank (cause by condensation) or coolant (caused by bad head gasket)
smell: odorless usually, but a little sweet smelling if coolant is involved

Black:  too much fuel
cause - stuck choke, poor air supply from air filter
smell: if it smell a lot like gasoline, then the choke is stuck.  Pull the dipstick and smell your oil.  If your oil smells like gas, fix the choke NOW before you start getting Blue or Gray because your rings went bad

Yours is water.  Have you cleaned out your breather/drain tube from the air box?  It hangs down by the kickstand, is clear but brown and has a cap that you take off to drain it. You could also have enough condensation over the years to make the level of water in the tank high enough to get dragged into fuel petcock.  It could be just condensation in the pipe. 

If your bike is smoking, white is the best color unless your head gasket is lunched.  Your other symptoms point to a bad head gasket.

[FLATSIX]

Yes, it could be bad head gaskets, if only they did not come symmetric out of the exhaust.

There is a left and a right side with each a hed gasket - when I see my white cloud coming and climbing vertically to the sky, it is always in stereo :  left AND right exhaust produce the same white cloud at hot engine when revving up.

I cannot believe that I blew up my 2 head gaskets at the same time.

So I will try to do some more miles on the machine and see what waterlevel does , if not changing after let's say 500 miles, then I will forget about the clouds.

[R J]

Didn't see anywhere in your posts that you had drained that little plastic hose under the bike.

The one with the plug in it.......

After that is drained and the white cloud is gone, quit revving her to the 4,500 to 5,000 range setting still.

This engine will take those revs, but what is the purpose of it?

You are or will be cutting some miles off of that engines longevity before long.

[Udo]

Why not remove those long vacuum hoses, and use the regular caps? I believe, that would be a cheap and easy way, to rule this out.....

I also think, that not both gaskets went south at the same time. But a defective head gasket will not only let water in the engine, also will burnt gas transfer in the radiator. In this gas is a part CO, and this CO is detectable. For cars is a set available, which is mounted instead of the radiator cap, maybe, they have a connector, which fits our radiator? So, you could rule out the head gasket as well.

[fstsix]

Flatsix have you looked at your spark plugs? If you have blown head gasket 1 or 2 plugs will have a orange coating on them and will look different than the rest check all and compare. Keep us posted.

[Hoser]

EMPTY THE DRAIN TUBE!  Sorry about the yelling, but we need to know.  hoser

[FLATSIX]

Sorry for replying soo late - my drain tube is not the cause - thought about it myself, but no success - completely empty !

[Daniel Meyer]

1) Sounds like water vapor...condensation/evaporation. Pretty normal unless in LARGE quantities.
2) Quit revving your engine that high with no load on it. Does more wear/damage than 1000 miles of hard riding.
3) Ride it hard. Fix it when it breaks.

[FLATSIX]

Hallo,

Yes, I will follow your advice - I did not know that rev. up the engine without load could do any harm, I thought that it would do nothing to the engine.

I will stop doiing it and ride it more...........

Propably it will be vapour - I shall have an eye on my water-reservetank - if level does not drop then I will be lucky. If it drops then I'll check also the plugs to see the color - I realy hope this will be not necessary !

[Ricky-D]

Hallo,

Yes, I will follow your advice - I did not know that rev. up the engine without load could do any harm, I thought that it would do nothing to the engine.

I will stop doiing it and ride it more...........

Propably it will be vapour - I shall have an eye on my water-reservetank - if level does not drop then I will be lucky. If it drops then I'll check also the plugs to see the color - I realy hope this will be not necessary !

Yes you are correct, I don't know where that idea comes from but it is not based in fact. A properly maintained motor would suffer no adverse affects from merely revving the motor and the rev-limiter will prevent the motor from over revving.

***

[Rattlebars]

Drain your float bowls.  You can see the screws.  One at a time, drain them.  Loosen screw. Let it drain then GENTLY tighten until there's no gas.

Park somewhere that you won't mind gas draining onto.  All the drain hoses are connected together so it will drain directly onto the ground from the same place.

[franco6]

flatsix , not too long ago you made a carb synch aparatus and told  us what a difference it made on the bike.
now when i was synchronizing my carbs and i was off, both sides blew white smoke when hot.
it went away when the bike was properly synched with vacuum gages.
DAG has a great set up he loaned us  texas vrcc, maybe he can help you.

[John U.]

quote:(Ricky-D) Yes you are correct, I don't know where that idea comes from but it is not based in fact. A properly maintained motor would suffer no adverse affects from merely revving the motor and the rev-limiter will prevent the motor from over revving. end quote

Ricky, you have the habit of stating your opinions as fact. If you have empirical proof or an authority to quote we would all benefit from hearing it. I believe you are wrong. I think high revs with no load will damage any engine. However, I have no authority to reference, so my comment is an opinion. If you have some proof or authority to reference
let's hear it. Otherwise identify your statement as an opinion.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I wouldn't rev an unloaded motor that high. In gear, pulling hard, sure take her all the way to redline and then bang the next gear. But with no load on the motor just revving it? Personally, I wouldn't.

[FLATSIX]

Franco, I cannot imagine that the carb sync is way off by using that selfmade 6-tubes machine.

it is extremely sensitif and must be as good as using gauges, or even better.

The oly thing with gauges is that specialists can interpretate the way the needles of gauges react and thus finding other problems with the motor. My vacuummachine only measures the 6 vacuumsuckers against each other.

No, I don't think that synchronisation of my bike is wrong!

[Hoser]

What is this syncrynization you speak of?  I have had my 99 tourer for 52000 miles and seven years and have never done that.  In fact I changed the plugs only once four years ago.  Oil tires, filters all regularly serviced, though.  I'm kidding, I know what it is, just never felt the need to do it.  Runs better now than it did when I bought it.  See below:

 
No smoke, no revving without load, lotsa revving and red line power shifting.  hoser

[FLATSIX]

Hoser, very nice dyno-result !

If you would do the synchronisation of all carbs then your bike would be more responsive to the throttle.

But if you are satisfied , then keep riding like you do now.

[sugerbear]

question.............could plugged drain holes in the exhaust do that??

[FLATSIX]

I don't know if plugged drain holes can cause a hot hot engine to produce white smoke - in each case mine are not plugged, I checked it.

What is strange is that the white cloud comes from both exhausts - the 2 clouds are identical in size and they come both after the engine has revved up - I can twist the throttle and then go at the back behind the exhausts to see them come out slowly, then they climb to the sky vertically ...

Strange .....strange....... I think I have 2 ghosts in my engine.

[Ricky-D]

Flatsix, don't worry about it! 

Like I said, it's only a little oil being drawn past the rings that's causing that little bit of smoke. That's a perfectly normal thing and you're not harming anything much to the dismay ( I am sure) of the Scare Mary's. 

For proof of what I say about revving the motor being true, you merely have to look at your own motor and see that nothing happened. ie: the motor didn't blow up!

Ride it like you stole it!

 

[FLATSIX]

Ricky-D,

It is no oil that is burning - the cloud is white like snow.

I am thinking of stealing another without smoke..........

[Hoser]

Hoser, very nice dyno-result !

If you would do the synchronisation of all carbs then your bike would be more responsive to the throttle.

But if you are satisfied , then keep riding like you do now.

I might do it if I get the chance, maybe even a desmog.  It would be nice to break that 100 hp barrier! Hoser

[fstsix]

Sorry for replying soo late - my drain tube is not the cause - thought about it myself, but no success - completely empty !

Flatsix Those Spark plugs all (Brown Gray) No Orange? Just curious?

[Duey]

Caused by hot exhaust running thru cold exhaust pipes, simple moisture sitting in the pipes, the hotter the exhaust and the colder the outside air and/or exhaust the more whiter smoke... Forget about it and ride more.... Black or greasy oil is a different story.
And that is a quote from an expert with at least 30 years experience... I believe him... 

[Duey]

 

[MP]

+1 hoser!

MP