Clunk when trying to start? Terrible sound!

[Steve78]

Hello, I actually have two problems vexing me at the moment.  First I have a 98 std, and it wouldn't start, it just clicked.  I charged the battery and it still just clicked, replaced the 10yr old battery, and it still just clicked, but a couple of time it sounded like it was turning over but ended in a horrible clunk sound, and wouldn't turn over again.  It has done this about three times now and I fear it may be a bad starter.  I pulled the covers and checked and cleaned all the connections I could see and easily get to, checked the fuses, but no difference, I am hoping there is nothing majorly wrong other than a starter if this sounds right to you all.

The second problem I am very concerned about is fuel leaking from what looks like a weep hole in the right side exhaust????  I did see gas on the motor on th left side but none on the right side.  Any ideas would be welcomed! 

[Lyle Laun]

Pull all 6 sparkplugs and try it agian. You may be hydrolocked and have fuel in a cylinder.

[Moonshot_1]

Everyone reading your post can feel the pit in their stomach.
Lyle has it right, you are hydrolocked. I'm sure you'll have a number of folks who have been through this post their story and their work to fix it.

Your petcock has failed. One of your carburetors has allowed raw gas to enter a cylinder. This cannot be compressed but your starter tries and the Valks have a hell of a starter.
The clunk you heard was likely the starter breaking some gear teeth in the motor.
Someone will post a more detailed account soon.

The first thing is to remove all the sparkplugs and turn the motor over. The starter might do it with the plugs removed, if not, put it in gear and roll it a bit.

Raw gas should jet from one of the holes. 

From what I've read on this site in the past, the fix shall take someone with a fair amount of Mechanical aptitude. I wouldn't be able  to do it. Don't have the time, place, tools or skill and this would be a fairly involved process.

It is a serious setback but it likely can be fixed.

Good luck. Hoping for the best.

[Gavin_Sons]

Yep you're hydrolocked. Not a hard job but does require some special tools. We done my brothers over 2 weekends. Most of the times was waiting for parts. Took ot all apart the first weekend, fixed everything in the motor the following saturday and had her back on the road that sunday afternoon. We boight the bike knowimg it had been locked up at one time, so this gave us the chance to go over everything and give her a good cleaning.

[Steve78]

Hey Lyle!  Many thanks, pulled the plugs as you suggested and tried to start it, blew gas all over my quarter sawn oak from the right side, bummer, but reinstalled plugs and it started right up!  Thank you so much, but just a dumb question, what is hydro lock and what causes it?

[DK]

You have more studying to do. Do this yourself so you will fully understand the problem and its consequences.

I strongly suggest that you park the Valk until you complete the suggestion made above.

[Steve78]

Yes but not sure I understand the problem, I removed the plugs as suggested and I got it started and running fine.  Took it for a short spin, and seems ok?   What exactly is a hydro lock and what is the cause.?  Is a petcock failure?

[Valkorado]

Yes but not sure I understand the problem, I removed the plugs as suggested and I got it started and running fine.  Took it for a short spin, and seems ok?   What exactly is a hydro lock and what is the cause.?  Is a petcock failure?

Think grenade.  Look up hydrolock and Dan-Marc electric fuel shutoff, probably your best preventative measure.
P.S. You're a lucky man.

[Bighead]

Hydro lock happens when the Petcock lets fuel run into the cylinders when not running. When you hit the starter it cannot compress the fuel and the starter on the Valk is strong enough that it will shear gears off in the engine. As suggested at the least remove your petcock and rebuild it or replace it with a pingle type.

[DK]

More specifically, there is a search box located in the header area of this forum. It is a source for about anything you want or need to know about Valks

It has been said many times that "search is your friend"

You don't seem to perceive the magnitude of your problem or the significance of what you are being told.

Just because your Valk seems to be running doesn't mean your problem is solved.

I fully concur with the term, "think grenade".

Park the bike, search and study the problem.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you don't fix both carbs and petcock, it will happen again.  If you don't hatve any broken teeth now, you probably won't be so lucky a second time.

[ridingron]

Evidently the petcock failed. This allowed gas to flow through the carb (float failed?) into the cylinder. When the piston moved up to normally compress the fuel/air mixture for combustion, it could not compress the fluid gasoline. Liquid can not compress at this pressure but the gas/air mixture will. This has been known to bend connecting rods ($$$) along with other problems mentioned. When you removed the plugs the fluid gasoline squirted out the plug hole. Once the cylinder was cleared of the fluid gasoline, it could start as normal.

This could very well happen again. You need to find how the gasoline got into the cylinder. I am not real familiar with Valk motors and carbs but normally the petcock is between the fuel tank and carbs. When opened by a vac. hose, it allows gas to flow to the carbs. The carbs flow gas to the cylinders. Did you notice which cylinder the gas squirted from? I would look at the carb that feeds that cylinder and check the petcock.

EDIT: I am a slow on a key board.

[Hook#3287]

You are a lucky man, it could have been a lot worse.

You need to remove and rebuild your OEM petcock.

You can get what's called a "cover set" from any parts provider.

You should also pull your carbs and replace all six float valves.

What happened is your petcock failed and allowed gas to flow, one or more of your float valves stuck and allowed gas to flow into one of the cylinders that had it 's intake valve open.  The cylinder filled with gas and the overflow leaked into your exhaust.  It's one of those "all the planets have to line up" things.

Do a search on Hydro lock to see the bullet that missed you.

If you do nothing, you're playing Russian Roulette every time you start your girl.

[Tfrank59]

It sounds like maybe his saving grace was his battery was weak, or it would have knocked teeth off of the starter.

[John Schmidt]

If it made the horrible noise he referred to then it's my guess he already has busted teeth. Just because it started and ran fine means nothing at this point. Do as suggested; read up on hydrolock cause and effects, read about corrective measures, then pull the starter 'cuz I'll bet you'll see some busted teeth.

[Lyle Laun]

Steve78
As everyone has suggested, read up on hydrolock with the search button. A friend of mine had the same experience as you and he got away without breaking off any teeth in the engine gear.
Your fuel petcock isn't working as designed, manually shut off the fuel and lightly tap the starter if you're riding it with that fuel petcock. My advice is to switch to a Pingel 1311CH fuel petcock as I've seen new honda petcocks fail within the first few months of use.
the correct procedure would be to pull the carbs and replace the floats plus pull the starter and check the engine ring gear for broken teeth. I'm gonna get flamed for this but..... but I know a few guys who just replaced the petcock and ran a load of Berryman B12 carb cleaner through a few tanks and never did anything else but that certainly depends on your feelings about the "terrible noise" comment.

Lyle

[gordonv]

It's already been said, Search is your friend.

A quick search showed this.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,75883.0/topicseen.html

Look over the pictures, and see what you might have averted. You still might have a tooth or teeth of the gear, but as long as the starter hits a tooth and spines the engine, it could skip the gape and start the bike.

Getting the bike started has nothing to do with fixing the problem. You MUST actually find out what caused the problem, or risk it happening again.

In most cases, it takes 2 things for a hydro lock to happen. In rare cases, only the petcock diaphragm leaks, and fuel goes down the vacuum line to cylinder 6. Any other cylinder, and it has 2 problems.

With 6 carbs, you have 6 times the chances of it happening.

Start buy going for a ride down a Hwy, turn off your fuel, and wait for the engine to start to starve for fuel. About 2 miles, seems like a long time. If it doesn't starve, then you need to fix your petcock. Still need to fix your carb(s).

[Steve78]

Thanks for the advice, I was searching thru the posts but saw nothing that looked like the problem I'm having.  I have never heard of hydro lock before, but even I as a novice mechanic can tell this is not a good thing, hence the silly questions.  So thanks to all, looks like I will be venturing into my first carb rebuild and replacing the petcock.  Sounds like a lot of fun! 

[Hook#3287]

Thanks for the advice, I was searching thru the posts but saw nothing that looked like the problem I'm having.  I have never heard of hydro lock before, but even I as a novice mechanic can tell this is not a good thing, hence the silly questions.  So thanks to all, looks like I will be venturing into my first carb rebuild and replacing the petcock.  Sounds like a lot of fun! 

If you like meching, it's fun.

If you don't, it ain't that bad.

Good luck, and ask questions here, it's why we do this.

[Steve78]

Gordonv, thanks for the link, my my my, I will be pulling out the starter as well!  I think I may have really dodged a grenade!  Thanks to all!

[hukmut]

Petcock failure is only part of the problem. The float valves in the carbs  have tiny springs that are supposed to help regulate fuel into the float chambers. The springs get weak from use over the years and effectively stop working, allowing excessive amounts of fuel into the engine, filling up the cylinders and causing hydrolock. Replacement is straightforward and relatively inexpensive. SEARCH. SEARCH. SEARCH.  This forum is a wonderful resource. Use it. It is your friend.


Ride safe...

[gordonv]

One last thing. Remember that sound you heard. If you EVER hear it again, DO NOT HIT the starter switch again.

Pull the bike outside, somewhere if wont spray fuel all over the inside of your garage, onto cars beside it. Pull the plug (like you did), and turn the engine over again (can also put the bike in gear and rock it back-forth), and empty the fuel from the cylinder.

Button it back up, and start as usual.

[Gavin_Sons]

If you in fact actually broke teeth on a gear the starter will sound like it is an aluminum can full of marbles.  Of you're not hearing this then I'd say you escaped a hydrolock, Luckily. And ues a good carb cleaning is in order. Make sure the little float needles still work properly, they have a tiny little nipple that is spring loaded, make sure those are not stuck. And a petcock rebuild or buy a pingle manual petcock to bypass the vacuum line.

[Steve78]

Gentlemen, thanks to all!  When I finally got it running it sounded like it always did, so I am hoping I dodge a bullet this time.  I am taking all the advice and parking the bike until I can replace the petcock and overhaul the carbs. 

From all I have seen and heard, pulling the carbs is not a real fun job, but nor does it seem is it undoable to me!  But from what I've seen and heard it appears this type of repair is done via a bike lift, other than sore knees and a stiff back, is there any reason why I could not overhaul the carbs while the bike is just supported by the side stand?  Just asking, I'm not a mechanic but also not against to busting a knuckle or two!

STEVE

[Firefighter]

Don't need a lift to service carbs. Make sure if you are parking the bike and you can't know if gas is still leaking, that you pull plugs before spinning engine next time. God granted you a second chance, don't blow it!

I would use youtube videos to help.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Gentlemen, thanks to all!  When I finally got it running it sounded like it always did, so I am hoping I dodge a bullet this time.  I am taking all the advice and parking the bike until I can replace the petcock and overhaul the carbs. 

From all I have seen and heard, pulling the carbs is not a real fun job, but nor does it seem is it undoable to me!  But from what I've seen and heard it appears this type of repair is done via a bike lift, other than sore knees and a stiff back, is there any reason why I could not overhaul the carbs while the bike is just supported by the side stand?  Just asking, I'm not a mechanic but also not against to busting a knuckle or two!

STEVE

No you don't need a lift. Have you worked on Mikuni's or Keihin's before ? If so you'll be fine. Take pics of how cables and linkage is routed to make it easier on the reinstall. If it was me I would also pull the starter to make sure you don't have some broken gear teeth floating around.

[John Schmidt]

Before removing the throttle cables, use some whiteout or similar and mark one cable and the support it goes to. Then you don't have to figure out where they go. While you're at it, put a small mark on the threaded portion of the end attached to the engine. That will give you a rough idea of where the adjusting nut should be when it's all installed. If you don't have one, I'd get an inexpensive wheel chock. It will hold the bike upright and make your working angle sooo much easier since most of us pull the carbs out the left side. Another suggestion....remove the top engine hangers before trying to remove the carbs. That lets you move the carbs toward the rear in order to remove, and pull out the metal intake runners before removing carbs. First time will test your vocabulary and religion. 

[Steve78]

All excellent ideas!  I'll let you all know how it goes, this will be my first foray into a carb rebuild let alone 6!

[ridingron]

Do them one at a time. You'll have a sample to go back to look at.

[Steve78]

Well I finally got it all done and back together!  It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just a bit worrisome since this was my first time tearing a bike this far apart, but many thanks to all for the suggestions and helpful hints.  But I gotta say that darn, (just add your own expletives here), air box was a real chore and not something I'd care to do again unless forced too!

Anyhow a great big thank you to all, great group of folks here, all the advise was greatly appreciated!

Steve

[Tfrank59]

So Steve, apparently your starter's OK? your first post on this thread made it sound like a hydrolock caused your starter to fail although your battery was weak so it just clicked. But what about that horrible clunk--did you ever figure out what made it?

[Steve78]

Hey Tfrank59,

Apparently starter is ok, it is working fine and no strange grinding or teeth rattling around.  Seems I had a leak in the petcock and one or more of the carbs were stuck open?...  Replaced the petcock and cleaned all the carbs.  I'm no mechanic but the bike seems fine, it started right up yesterday, no gas smell nor any today!   So as the fella's here suggested I am a very fortunate man, I have never heard of a vapor lock before, but with help here and YouTube video's I went ahead and did the repairs myself!

Steve

[pancho]

Good job Steve.   

[gordonv]

So as the fella's here suggested I am a very fortunate man, I have never heard of a vapor lock before, but with help here and YouTube video's I went ahead and did the repairs myself!

Just please clarify, are we talking about vapor or hydro lock? 2 totally different things.

[Steve78]

Sorry gordonv, sometimes my mind thinks faster than I can type, what I wanted to say was I have encountered vapor lock before, but with a boat motor, but I had never heard of hydro lock before!

But like I always told my kids when they were young, "if you don't learn nothing new, you've wasted your whole day!

Thanks again to everyone!

[Lyonardo]

By the time I saw this, you had gotten plenty of advice and are on the right track.
So I won't bore you with the details of my own hydrolock, or how I didn't know what was going on and ended up damaging two gears inside the engine, or how much I spent repairing it instead of letting a shop fix it for less.

All I'll say is that I ended up with two pingel petcocks.
I have one that is only slightly used just sitting around.
If you need one send me a private message and we can work out the details.
L

[gordonv]

snipe
my own hydrolock,
snipe
or how much I spent repairing it instead of letting a shop fix it for less.

Letting a shop fix it would have been cheaper? I think most have said the shop wanted $1-1.5K for the job.

Now that might be a story in itself. 

[Gavin_Sons]

snipe
my own hydrolock,
snipe
or how much I spent repairing it instead of letting a shop fix it for less.

Letting a shop fix it would have been cheaper? I think most have said the shop wanted $1-1.5K for the job.

Now that might be a story in itself. 

Shops around here charge 60 bucks an hour and quote it for 40 hours. So 2400 bucks later plus parts ypu can have your bike fixed. Just did one last weekend for 110 dollars. Seems a whole bunch cheaper than 2400 to me.

[Tfrank59]

snipe
my own hydrolock,
snipe
or how much I spent repairing it instead of letting a shop fix it for less.

Letting a shop fix it would have been cheaper? I think most have said the shop wanted $1-1.5K for the job.

Now that might be a story in itself. 

I think he's trying to say that he opened a can of worms he didn't have to and a shop probably would have known that and just fixed what needed to be fixed?

[Lyonardo]

My rear engine casing was cracked where one of the gears is housed, so that added to my cost.
A buddy connected me with a local mechanic who had done several hydrolock fixes. Since I ordered all the parts, he offered to do the work for $750.
I chose to do the work myself, and ended up spending a lot more than $750.
I bought a lift, a bike jack, lots of tools, etc... Of course I ended up replacing other parts since I had the engine out, and did some other mods that came to mind along the way.

I also rebuilt the carbs, and replaced the stock petcock with a pingel so I wouldn't get any more hydrolocks!
Plus, I did the brakes, and replaced the tires, etc, before putting the engine back in.

So yeah, I did way more than just replace the two broken gears.
I'm glad I did it all I guess, but probably should've just paid a pro and got my bike back on the road a lot quicker and cheaper.
The main problem was coming across some part or tool that I had to order and wait for days or weeks before I could proceed. I'm sure a professional would've had easier access to everything they needed.
Oh yeah, plus I had to find the special sockets: I think 36 & 42mm, 12 point, if I recall. Plus I was working lots of overtime, so I had to finish the work an hour here and there.
Then my sweetie threw out a box that had my radiator mounts and some other misc. screws!

It was so much fun!!!

snipe
my own hydrolock,
snipe
or how much I spent repairing it instead of letting a shop fix it for less.

Letting a shop fix it would have been cheaper? I think most have said the shop wanted $1-1.5K for the job.

Now that might be a story in itself.