Progressive springs again

[pancho]

I am wondering just exactly what difference the progressive springs make in the front tubes,, I have read a lot of old posts, and don't really find an answer. My stock suspension seems to work just fine, but if I could keep the overall stiffness, but lessen the initial bit of travel (like soften a small hard bump) I would like to do it...  just not sure if that is what the progressive springs will do, or if I need to experiment with air/oil volume, oil weight or what. Any input will be appreciated. Like all of us, I am looking to keep the tires in contact with the road under all conditions, and still have the most comfortable ride possible.

[Kunkies]

What a great question. . . looking forward to first-hand experience responses.

I've had a set of progressive front fork springs sitting in a box in my garage waiting for a good reason to install.  Perhaps this is it. 

[hubcapsc]

What a great question. . . looking forward to first-hand experience responses.

I've had a set of progressive front fork springs sitting in a box in my garage waiting for a good reason to install.  Perhaps this is it. 

? ? ?

When I first got my Valkyrie, I rode it down the street a few miles. After that, I had a good
reason to install Progressive springs  ...

OEM Valkyrie springs = mushy 1970 Cadillac suspension...

Progressive Valkyrie springs = stiffer, more sports-car like, suspension...

-Mike

[Valkorado]

What Mike said.  Bertha has 'em, now I'm wanting them on the Silver Bullet.  Very noticeable difference!

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

I recently put in Progressive springs in the front. Had about 160,000 miles, needed new bushings, seals, etc.  About the same experience I had with the Progressive springs in the rear several years ago---I really didn't notice much difference in the front or the rear when I did mine. If anything, I would say a little stiffer ride.  But then I noticed very little difference when I put the car tire on several years ago.

[DarkSideR]

As a winter project I fully rebuilt my forks and upgraded to progressive springs. Here is my review.

I have 56k on my bike. The front suspension was notably soft, and had more front end dive than I liked when stopping. The ride was not bad however, it soaked up the bumps and went through the corners just fine.

I rebuilt the forks replacing all bushings, seals, etc. I also used the recommended weight fork oil, and actually used the Honda brand.

My first ride was a 200 mile ride with the Colorado VRCC group. I did 60 miles on the interstate and the other miles on back road mountain twisties. On the Interstate the ride was good. Notably more stiff up front but again not bad. I came up to a point where the highway went from concrete to asphalt, and the asphalt had a large bump in it. I braced myself expecting a big impact, but it was no drama at all. Boy was I relieved. +1 on the upgrade there! It was on the twisty mountain roads where the new springs shone. They are great in the corners. Another +1 on the upgrade. Lastly stopping has very little front end dive. Another +1.

To conclude;
 - The forks now have a little less travel than before, because the Progressive Springs are shorter than the stock springs (does not lower the bike however).
 - The ride is notable more stiff, but not bad (since then, I rode 2,000+ miles to, and from the GOTF and loved the ride).
 - Very little to no front end dive.
 - Prior to the rebuild both forks leaked at one point or another. Now I can ride confidently that I won't have a fork leak for a long while.

Advice;
 - If you upgrade you might as well take the time to rebuild your forks.
 - Use the recommended factory fork oil weight.
  + In my research I read all kinds of different weights, ATF, etc used. Trust me use the recommended factory oil weight! Let the springs do what you bought them for. No need to compensate elsewhere.

Hope this helps,

DarkSider

[pancho]

Well, thanks for the responses guys it's all useful information,,,  and the details Josh.  I don't feel I have a soft or mushy front , and no more dive than I would expect for any given situation, I would actually like the first bit of travel to be a little softer. I took the forks partially apart when I first got the bike just for a general inspection, and have factory oil and parts with close to correct oil height. I wonder if some of you guys had springs that were not up to par?? do some of them go bad?  Also, are the same internal assemblies used on all Valks?

[DarkSideR]

Well, thanks for the responses guys it's all useful information,,,  and the details Josh.  I don't feel I have a soft or mushy front , and no more dive than I would expect for any given situation, I would actually like the first bit of travel to be a little softer. I took the forks partially apart when I first got the bike just for a general inspection, and have factory oil and parts with close to correct oil height. I wonder if some of you guys had springs that were not up to par?? do some of them go bad?  Also, are the same internal assemblies used on all Valks?

I have not read, or heard of springs going bad here on the VRCC. All years the forks are the same, however the internals of the left for are different than the right fork.

[Steve K (IA)]

I am wondering just exactly what difference the progressive springs make in the front tubes,, I have read a lot of old posts, and don't really find an answer. My stock suspension seems to work just fine, but if I could keep the overall stiffness, but lessen the initial bit of travel (like soften a small hard bump) I would like to do it...  just not sure if that is what the progressive springs will do, or if I need to experiment with air/oil volume, oil weight or what. Any input will be appreciated. Like all of us, I am looking to keep the tires in contact with the road under all conditions, and still have the most comfortable ride possible.

If you are happy with what you have, do not change it.  Don't be a lemming.

I played the lemming many years ago on the progressive springs.  Guys said it reduces front end dive...I never had front end dive.  Might be the way I brake?  Whole bike squats under braking. 
Well, I can't have front end dive, so went out and had the springs changed.  The front end of my I/S that has the mentioned springs will dive just as easy as my Std. that doesn't have the springs.  My I/S rides like a truck, my Std rides like a car.

That's my experience and opinion.  It's your bike, you will do what you feel is best.  Your results might be different from mine.  Those springs have worked well for some and not so well for others.

It's just one of those things that I wished I hadn't done. 

Being around here for 15 years I am aware that I am not the only one who feels this way. 
It has very recently shown up where guys have experienced the "truck ride" after putting those springs in and they are now experimenting with the oil level in the forks to remedy the extra stiffness.

[98valk]

Well, thanks for the responses guys it's all useful information,,,  and the details Josh.  I don't feel I have a soft or mushy front , and no more dive than I would expect for any given situation, I would actually like the first bit of travel to be a little softer. I took the forks partially apart when I first got the bike just for a general inspection, and have factory oil and parts with close to correct oil height. I wonder if some of you guys had springs that were not up to par?? do some of them go bad?  Also, are the same internal assemblies used on all Valks?

I have not read, or heard of springs going bad here on the VRCC. All years the forks are the same, however the internals of the left for are different than the right fork.

I/S forks compression damping was increased slightly and rebound rates were decreased for the fairing weight, otherwise everything else is the same.
source: Rider/June 1999

[pancho]

Good information,,  I,m starting to get the idea that the ride I want is not going to be found with the progressive springs,, sounds like I need a progressive valve in the hydraulics.  

Wonder if keeping the stock springs and lowering the oil level would head me in the right direction for what i'm looking for?

[Jess from VA]

Like Mike K, I had them put in on my very low mile IS as soon as I got it.  The ride was perfectly fine, but I threw every upgrade on it right away.  It turned the front end into a rock (hard bumps hurt my shoulders and hands, and could almost jar my hands off the bars), and it took a year before they smoothed out some.  I later came to believe the fault was not the springs, but the expensive dealer install overfilling the fork fluid, which was the recommended 10 wt (but everyone's 10 wt fork oil is not the same).  At the time, I desperately wanted my old springs back (but was not about to pay big money twice), but it was probably not the springs, it was too much oil.  I have the progressives in both bikes now, and when they get rebuilt, they will be reused, but with a few ozs less fluid than called for on each side.

In theory, the progressives should make small bumps smoother, since they are designed to start easy and get harder the further they compress (progressively) down.  In practice (and maybe this is because they are always accompanied with a refill of new fluid, and often with all new internals), they give more of a performance suspension, right from the git go.

Now my other bike has had a very small leak (more on one side than the other) for several years; stopped each time with the seal mate.  I have only probably lost a few ounces out of each side, but the ride, though smoother than the other bike (still stiff), is still not really compromised in a bad way.  If you can get 2-3 ozs out of each side, you might like it.  The only downside might be a situation where a near git off results in a bad wobbling tank slapper (I've had this a couple times), and less oil might allow a tank slapper easier..... but this is speculation.   

If you are basically happy with what you have, I'd leave them alone until they begin to leak, and need rebuilt.  Then stick them in with the rebuild.  And err short of fluid, rather than too much.

Your short term solution might be to stick a fat girl on the back.  Or even a thin one.  (add weight to the bike)  

[pancho]

Jess, are you running the bikes with reduced oil level now?? if so, how much less?


"Your short term solution might be to stick a fat girl on the back."     HA   no back seat

[Jess from VA]

Jess, are you running the bikes with reduced oil level now?? if so, how much less?


"Your short term solution might be to stick a fat girl on the back."    HA   no back seat

I have no idea how much oil has leaked out of one of my ISs.  I have stopped it (when on one side only), and them (when on both sides) with the Seal mate probably five times.  Of course it mists all over the timing belt cover and pods during a ride, and looks bad, but it is not much.  The ride is still fine.  That bike is getting fixed shortly.  I would opine that removing 2-3 ozs per side would be fine. (I believe the sides are not equal in volume called for, but you still take the same amount out of each side anyway).  The other bike has never leaked a drop since rebuild with progressives (but no new internals) at 4000 miles in 2005.

So put her on the handlebars, you want to add weight over the forks anyway.

[h13man]

Loved them in my 1100 Spirit as we rode 2 up 80% of the time. As I got about 25,000 mi. I did notice them getting a little soft but not bad. By myself always a great ride. Now on the Valk I went with lowest rate Racetechs which got a good deal on from a gentleman here on the forum. He didn't like them because they were to harsh for his liking. After install they seem a tad harsh compared to the Progressive immediate liking on the Spirit but after 200 mi. I was very pleased. IMO either spring is an improvement over the somewhat soft stock springs but everybody have their own feel so to speak. The Racetechs really perform extremely well riding 2 up. I feel a single rate spring will last longer by design but you still can't go wrong with Progressives either.

[Grandpot]

I had to replace the fork seals, so I decided to change to Progressive springs.  Glad I did.  Didn't realize how bad to OEM setup was.  The ride is stiffer and much more solid feeling.  The solid feel I'm sure is because I changed the bushings also.

[longrider]

just a bit of advice.  when installing progressives you may want to fill oil to measurements from the manual using the dipstick method as opposed to ounces or you may overfill.  The ride becomes very harsh when they are only an ounce or two over.  Dont't ask me how I know

[pancho]

On the wisdom of you experienced people, (Thanks all) I have concluded that the Progressive springs will not give me the fork operation I am looking for. I am going to keep the stock springs and experiment with the oil /air volume (oil height in the tubes) to see if it will soften the initial bit of movement. I seem to remember seeing a post (I dream a lot of stuff too) where someone was able to get a hose or tube down in there with the forks still on the bike and remove or add some 10wt.  Is there enough clearance to get a rig like this down in there to try some different oil levels?

[big poppa pump]

Another option is to look into Racetech Gold valves. The racetech valves are supposed to work with the OEM springs.

[98valk]

more info, maybe helpful

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,70467.0.html

[Steve K (IA)]

On the wisdom of you experienced people, (Thanks all) I have concluded that the Progressive springs will not give me the fork operation I am looking for. I am going to keep the stock springs and experiment with the oil /air volume (oil height in the tubes) to see if it will soften the initial bit of movement. I seem to remember seeing a post (I dream a lot of stuff too) where someone was able to get a hose or tube down in there with the forks still on the bike and remove or add some 10wt.  Is there enough clearance to get a rig like this down in there to try some different oil levels?

That should get in there.  I have a similar set up.  My hose might be a tad thinner.

[Steve K (IA)]

just a bit of advice.  when installing progressives you may want to fill oil to measurements from the manual using the dipstick method as opposed to ounces or you may overfill.  The ride becomes very harsh when they are only an ounce or two over.  Dont't ask me how I know

Dip stick is how I gauged the oil level after changing the seals.  Used a 12" white zip tie.  Measured up from where the ridges started and wrapped a piece of electrical tape around it marking the depth.  Eyeballed the bottom edge of tape with the top edge of the tubes.