Clutch issue

[jimmytee]

O.K. I have lived with this symptom since , like forever, so it is nothing new. Jabba's post put me in the mood to post here and just see. I asked a couple people at Inzane in Ashville what they thought. When I was home, I rebuilt the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder. Still have the same symptom.
The symptom is that with the clutch lever pulled all the way in , I get a bit of a jump when I put it into first gear, nothing real serious. To say it jumps may be over stating it, but you do feel it. If the engine is reving too high, 1st won't want to engage and I will get some grinding or gear chatter trying to put it into gear. Not a big deal, I just always make sure the RPMs are low before putting it into gear. The most annoying thing though, is that from first to second, I have to really be sure to be completely off the throttle for second gear to shift without grinding or that chatter. Under aggressive acceleration this has sometimes meant a missed shift. I'll sometimes have a bit of this issue with the other gears , but the biggest issue is with the 1st to 2nd shift. I know this is the longest shift as far as the gears inside. Any ideas? I would really like this problem to go away. I've learned to deal with it, but I wish I didn't have to.

[six2go #152]

Jimmy, When my clutch ate it's rivets I had some symptoms that while not exactly as yours. could be different just because different people describing them.

Mine was harder than normal to get into 1st
Neutral was almost impossible to find
Bike would want to "creep" forward while at a stop while in gear with clutch pulled in as far as it would go
Clutch lever would not pull all the way to the grip as normal. It came to a solid stop before reaching the grip.
The bike was "rideable" but shifting just had a different feel.

It's been so darn long ago that I had that problem and the Valk is long gone so I may not remember everything clearly, but I am sure of the symptoms listed above.

See ya on the "6" Board.

[jimmytee]

Jimmy, When my clutch ate it's rivets I had some symptoms that while not exactly as yours. could be different just because different people describing them.

Mine was harder than normal to get into 1st
Neutral was almost impossible to find
Bike would want to "creep" forward while at a stop while in gear with clutch pulled in as far as it would go
Clutch lever would not pull all the way to the grip as normal. It came to a solid stop before reaching the grip.
The bike was "rideable" but shifting just had a different feel.

It's been so darn long ago that I had that problem and the Valk is long gone so I may not remember everything clearly, but I am sure of the symptoms listed above.

See ya on the "6" Board.

Well, that was my thought , after talking to a few people at an INZANE a couple years ago, the clutch being the problem was kind of ruled out.
Mine never feels like it wants to creep on me. My clutch lever has always pulled all the way in. My sensation is that maybe the lever is not going far enough,even though it is pulled all the way in. If it were a cable actuated clutch, I'd be looking to adjust my cable.  ??? But of course it is not. Before I were to go through the effort of pulling the clutch, I'd want to be sure all simpler solutions are examined. This has been like this practically since I've owned this Valk. This is the second Valkyrie, a 2000. I bought this one used. My first was a 98 and don't remember having this issue at all.

[gordonv]

How often does this happen, only on a start up on a well cooled engine?

What brand/weight oil do you use?


1st thought is the same as I had on my GW GL1500, the clutch plates sticking together when cool/cold. When I have the rear tire in the air and the engine running, the rear wheel will spin with more force then I care to stop with my hand. I never notice this again, as I leave it in gear all the time, and have no problem shifting from 1-2 after it's warm.

Could be the nature of your beast, like it was with mine, or the oil you are using.

[Firefighter]

Should shift smooth. There must be no obvious play at the clutch handle that could cause less engagement correct? If you have done the master and slave and still have the exact same problem then I would think there is problems with the clutch itself.  Air in the system is the only other culprit I can think of.     1.9 cents worth, maybe

[jimmytee]

ALl good thoughts, and thanks for the input. When I rebuilt the master and slave cylinders, I changed the fluid and bled them with a brake bleeding vacuum tool. I can't remember if it's a mighty-vac or not.  Gordon, the sympton is there regardless of bike temperature. DOesn't matter if I first start it or just rode 500 miles. It's been this way for 4 years and 25,000 miles I've owned this bike. No change for the better or worse.    I read somewhere, but have not looked into it yet, and simply don't remember, is there a bushing in the lever that can wear and cause the lever to not fully engage the master cylinder?

[Jabba]

JimmyTee, I just ordered that bushing... from Bike Bandit. $9.90 plus shipping.

I don't think it's gonna help me... but it MIGHT help you.

Jabba

[Scottrtho]

My 1999 std has 49k miles, and clanks into 1st pretty hard if the idle is up, but not so bad if idling at 800 to 900. There are alot of plates in this clutch, and I think it is due to viscous drag, especially when the engine is cold. The clutch is otherwise one of , if not the  smoothest I have ever owned.

Repeated hard launches will tend to make the metal  clutch plates dig into the clutch baskets fingers and can cause small grooves that can impede smooth pressure release if they hang. I saw that on a Honda CBF1100.

Don't forget these are straight cut gears that engage rather bruskly...

If your clutch takes up smoothly as you let it out, I wouldn't be concerned.

Scott T.

[PSUbag]

I'd bet on the little brass bushing in the lever. I'm getting a new one this week. It will be the 2nd time I've replaced it, in 135,000 miles.

[Bighead]

JT my 97 also lurches a bit when going from neutral to first and has since the day I bought it New.  And when shifting it has more of a clunk than my 99 does. I just keep riding and don't worry with it

[jimmytee]

I've ordered the bushing, just in case it does fix it.  I have lived with it, it's not the lurching, but the shifting into other gears I wish would be smoother. Especially 1st to 2nd. We will see.

[jimmytee]

JimmyTee, I just ordered that bushing... from Bike Bandit. $9.90 plus shipping.

I don't think it's gonna help me... but it MIGHT help you.

Jabba

I just ordered the bushing from Partzilla.. $7.82 plus $7.95 shipping and handling.    Really?  What a rip off.

[Jabba]

I just ordered the bushing from Partzilla.. $7.82 plus $7.95 shipping and handling.    Really?  What a rip off.

Absolutely FREE with $20 in shipping and handling charges...

 

Jabba

[Valker]

There is an exact replacement from Suzuki for about $4 at a dealer. I always carry a spare at that price.

[Jess from VA]

There is an exact replacement from Suzuki for about $4 at a dealer. I always carry a spare at that price.

From shoptalk:
Clutch lever bushing

The Honda part Number 2285-MBO-006 is $10

The Suzuki part number 59892-08A00 is $3 and exactly the same part.

[Paladin528]

Heavier oil will cause the "dragging" to happen.  As was mentioned above, the viscosity of the oil drags on the disks and gives a bit of pull.  My old VT1100 did exactly the same thing.  It was more noticable after replacing the clutch disks because the grooves were deeper and amplified the issue.

[jimmytee]

Heavier oil will cause the "dragging" to happen.  As was mentioned abo :Dve, the viscosity of the oil drags on the disks and gives a bit of pull.  My old VT1100 did exactly the same thing.  It was more noticable after replacing the clutch disks because the grooves were deeper and amplified the issue.

Not sure what you are calling "dragging". ???

I wouldn't think that term would apply to my issue.

For me it is as if the clutch is not being fully engaged. I dunno. 

[Gavin_Sons]

Heavier oil will cause the "dragging" to happen.  As was mentioned abo :Dve, the viscosity of the oil drags on the disks and gives a bit of pull.  My old VT1100 did exactly the same thing.  It was more noticable after replacing the clutch disks because the grooves were deeper and amplified the issue.

Not sure what you are calling "dragging". ???

I wouldn't think that term would apply to my issue.

For me it is as if the clutch is not being fully engaged. I dunno. 

I think you are just noticing these sounds and roughness because you have a new B. 

[jimmytee]

Heavier oil will cause the "dragging" to happen.  As was mentioned abo :Dve, the viscosity of the oil drags on the disks and gives a bit of pull.  My old VT1100 did exactly the same thing.  It was more noticable after replacing the clutch disks because the grooves were deeper and amplified the issue.

Not sure what you are calling "dragging". ???

I wouldn't think that term would apply to my issue.

For me it is as if the clutch is not being fully engaged. I dunno. 

I think you are just noticing these sounds and roughness because you have a new B. 

I wish that was all it was. I've had this issue since I've owned this one.

[Michvalk]

It's possible the little actuator pin between the slave, and the clutch mechanism is worn. The only way to know for sure is remove the slave, and remove the pin to measure. Just throwing another idea at you, if the simple stuff don't do the job.

[jim@98valkyrie.com]

I am going to put a slightly different spin on this topic.  I have had the exact same problem as the OP for a LONG time. I now attribute my issues to the fact that I had the smallest of air bubbles in the clutch line. The clutch line runs weird and has the potential of harboring air when you change fluid. I have Speed Bleeders, but somehow when I was changing it the last time, I let the fluid in the reservoir get too low and some air got into the line. I bled quite a bit out that time, but because of the fluid line routing, the air bubble stayed in the line and didn't bleed out.
This time, I was more careful. I found that there was some air that was expelled when I changed fluid.
As soon as I finished and took her out for a test run, there was no more clutch dragging, surging or what ever you want to call it.

[jimmytee]

It's possible the little actuator pin between the slave, and the clutch mechanism is worn. The only way to know for sure is remove the slave, and remove the pin to measure. Just throwing another idea at you, if the simple stuff don't do the job.

That would suck, since I have already rebuilt the slave cylinder. I can't remember , though, I may have replaced that pin. Now I have to search my purchase records and see if that pin was in my order.