Starter Relay or Starter

[blacknchrome]

Gents,
First,
Hello from Maryland.  I have had my 98 Valk for a few years and love it.  Rode it from San Diego to Maryland when the military moved me.

Second,
I have read most, if not all, of the starter/starter switch posts and I think I have tried all the troubleshooting tests that I am capable of doing.

Symptoms:
1) I turn the key to the on position and the light does not turn on. (I'm certain it used to turn on until I pressed the start button).
2) I press the start button and I hear a loud click. (I have recently learned that is the starter relay.)
3) If I turn on the high beams (yes high beams work for some reason) and press the starter button the light goes out.  (I think this helps demonstrate that the starter button is working properly)

What I have tried:
1) Tore down the starter button.  It looks clean (I brushed it clean anyway). The springs and contact all appear to be functioning as intended.
2) Replaced the battery.
3) I attempted to bridge the relay with a number of tools (screw driver, steel pry bar, etc).  The relay still clicks but nothing happens.
4) I checked the negative battery connection from the battery to the back of the engine.  I can not get direct access to the bolt on the back of the engine however, it does not look corroded or rusty.

Can I:
1) Can I temporarily bypass the relay by connecting the positive battery lead to the cable leading to the starter?  If I can, and the bike starts, then I know it's the relay.  If it doesn't, then it's the starter.  Do these troubleshooting steps make sense?

Thanks,
Chris

[John Schmidt]

In a word....NO. What model do you have....Std., Tourer, or Interstate? Have you checked where the ground battery cable attaches at the bottom? Over the years that often becomes loose or corroded....or both, and will cause a similar problem. If your cables are tight, then at this point I would pull all the plugs and then see if it will turn over. You may have the beginnings of hydrolock and one or more cylinders might have raw fuel in them.

[blacknchrome]

This probably sounds bad but I don't know which model I have.  However, my bike looks like yours minus the fairing.

Here is a terrible photo. https://goo.gl/photos/FU8EEJdtpkK5hnte7

[John Schmidt]

OK, looks like it might be either a Tourer or a Standard with bags and windshield added. Mine is a '98 Tourer with a Harley fairing adapted to it along with the I/S radiator pods. Best way to tell what you have is with the VIN, it's up on the steering neck, left side. Use the link to determine what you have. Scroll down to the dark blue section, in the second box click on the red "discussion on variants" and compare to your VIN. That will tell you what you're riding.

http://www.valkyrienorway.com/VIN%20NUMBERS.html

[blacknchrome]

It's an SC340 which equates to a standard.  I'm learning all kinds of new things today.

[blacknchrome]

I had some free time today so I pulled the starter.  That was an adventure!  Anyway, I hooked the the starter directly up to my battery and it did nothing.  Made no noise, nothing.  I think I have a dead starter.

[John Schmidt]

Before going any farther, take it to a shop and have them test it. Have it done in front of you, never let them take it "in back" to test and then come back to give you the "bad news." I think you know where I'm going with that. 

[gordonv]

I will bow to John's greater knowledge. But I think your removed test of the starter, I would expect it to work if it is good.

But just for the rest of use, because I was afraid where this was going, roll the engine over by rolling the bike in gear (2-3?). If it will turn completely over, we're good. If it stops, you need to come back here.

[John Schmidt]

A bad starter is quite unusual for these engines, I'm rather surprised at your results. Rather than rolling the bike in gear to turn the engine over, after pulling the plugs just remove the center cover on the belt cover. Then use a socket and breaker bar to turn it over by hand. That will let you know if you have any raw fuel in a cylinder, plus I'd also check for gassy smell of the oil...just in case. While the starter is out, use a flashlight and peer inside the hole where it mounts on the engine. See if anything is busted in there....gear teeth, gears, etc.

Pulling that starter was a lot of fun wasn't it? 

[pancho]

A bad starter is quite unusual for these engines, I'm rather surprised at your results.

While that is true, the troubleshooting steps have been sound,, this may be an unusual case of an actual starter failure.  Double check and confirm that the starter will not spin up connected to a battery blacknchrome, then disassemble and take a look. I for one am curious about what you will find.

[John Schmidt]

A bad starter is quite unusual for these engines, I'm rather surprised at your results.

While that is true, the troubleshooting steps have been sound,, this may be an unusual case of an actual starter failure.  Double check and confirm that the starter will not spin up connected to a battery blacknchrome, then disassemble and take a look. I for one am curious about what you will find.

Agreed, and also curious. 

[John larsen]

Trust me on this. It's the starter button. It's $90 at dealer. I replaced them on shadow & Valk. Save the dealer cost of testing. That switch runs thru the headlight and the flag was your light coming on or off when pushing it.
Fairly easy to replace.

[h13man]

Trust me on this. It's the starter button. It's $90 at dealer. I replaced them on shadow & Valk. Save the dealer cost of testing. That switch runs thru the headlight and the flag was your light coming on or off when pushing it.
Fairly easy to replace.

Mine done the same thing but... In a event it turns out to be the switch: http://www.powershondaparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb5f4f870023420a416ba/switch-cable

[blacknchrome]

I'm thinking about picking this up.  Any reason why I shouldn't?
http://www.amazon.com/Starter-fits-Honda-GL1500C-Valkyrie/dp/B01AGQB2E0/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1464905219&sr=8-10&keywords=Valkyrie+starter

As for tearing down the old starter, do I just remove the 3 long bolts and pull it apart?

[Chrisj CMA]

Its just so rare that a starter for a Valkyrie to just "go bad"  I think I would take it to a shop that works on such equipment and have it verified bad.  Maybe it needed to be grounded when hooked up, maybe your battery wasn't strong enough.........I would hate to see you buy a new starter and have the same problem.

[blacknchrome]

The reason I don't think it's a hydrolock problem is because I unfortunately know what that is like.  I suffered this problem last year and it cost me quite a lot to fix it.  That being said I distinctly remember what it sounded like to start the bike with the hydrolock symptoms.

Here is a photo of the gears the starter attaches too.
https://goo.gl/photos/n2njvYm3CPBPxsUJ9

[hubcapsc]

I'm thinking about picking this up.  Any reason why I shouldn't?
http://www.amazon.com/Starter-fits-Honda-GL1500C-Valkyrie/dp/B01AGQB2E0/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1464905219&sr=8-10&keywords=Valkyrie+starter

As for tearing down the old starter, do I just remove the 3 long bolts and pull it apart?

Starters go "SPROING" when you take them apart. I've never heard of
a broken one. Well... there's was the one rendered permanently broken
by me taking it apart. But other than that.

And they're real hard to get on and off, them and alternators
and center covers.

Pinwall has some real starters (my bike has a pinwall starter now)
for $90. I bet those other guys are right about the starter button...

-Mike

[blacknchrome]

So against my true desire, I just ordered the switch assembly.  We shall see.

[blacknchrome]

I got the new solenoid in.  Now I'm just waiting for the switch assembly.  In the meantime I think i will take the starter to autozone to get it tested.

[hubcapsc]

I got the new solenoid in.  Now I'm just waiting for the switch assembly.  In the meantime I think i will take the starter to autozone to get it tested.

I don't know if you have the starter off yet...

There's two nuts on the stud that holds the hot wire to it. Low profile
nuts. Locked together...

When I removed my starter, I didn't have a low profile wrench
to hold the lower nut, and I just put a wrench to the top nut.

The "stud" is really just a bolt whose head is registered in a
plastic part inside the starter. I destroyed the plastic part
when I tried to turn the top nut without holding the lower
one.



This plastic part is about the only thing inside the starter that
you can't buy - no part number, not listed on the fiche...

-Mike "careful out there..."

[blacknchrome]

So I'm about to buy a new starter.  I would like to save a few bucks by buying this: https://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-SMU0390-Motorcycle-1997-2003/dp/B00MTZ9SCU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1466549530&sr=8-6&keywords=gl1500c+starter

Otherwise I would buy it from here:
http://www.powersedge.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb5eff870023420a416a8/starter-motor

We are talking about 300 dollars in difference.  Suggestions?

[Steel cowboy]

Just trying to figure out something. If your starter switch "IS" bad then you theoreclly should be able to get the starter to turn over when you jump the starter selenoid. Putting a continuity light on the starter wire and pushing the starter switch will make it light up. If no light, jumping the selenoid should make the light come on. There is a fuse on the selenoid switch I belive it to be a 30 amp, have you checked it out? Just me wondering out loud.

[Paladin528]

if he tried hooking it directly to the battery after removing it and it didnt work then it cannot be the switch as that was eliminated by removing the starter.
Any good starter and alternator shop will be able to repair it as all of the parts are available for the internals or you could fix it your self if you can identify the point of failure.

[blacknchrome]

I just tested (successfully) and installed a new OEM starter.  I hooked everything back up and I get no lights on the bike.  By no lights I mean no neutral lite indicator, no headlights, nothing.  Those lights worked before I removed the starter.  The simplest solution is it's the battery, so I'm charging it. 
In preparation for the worst case scenario I bought a new solenoid and starter switch assembly.  I just went ahead and installed the new Solenoid because, why not.  However, the starter switch assembly is a bit more difficult.  This assembly appears to attach to the back of the headlight.  I'm having a problem figuring out how to get to the back of the headlight in order to plug in the new starter switch assembly.  Any pointers?

Thanks,
Chris

[Hook#3287]

Remove the wind screen and on each side of the head light frame is a screw, something like 4 & 8 oclock.  remove them and the light frame should come off the light case.  You might have to give it a tap with a rubber hammer or your hand, which ever is handy.

The head light should just unplug and you will see all the wiring in the case.  There are 4 flexible stays in there holding all the wires from rubbing up on the light.

[blacknchrome]

Thanks, I'll fill you guys in when I check the battery tomorrow.

[blacknchrome]

I have an electrical problem now.

What I know:
1) As currently wired, when I turn the key no lights come on.  (They did before I pulled the starter)
2) If I bridge the solenoid with a wrench the new starter turns over and attempts to start the bike.
3) I got the headlight apart and replaced the starter switch assembly in hopes that it would fix the problem.  It did not.
4) I found that i have a throttle cable with only 2 treads intact.  (bonus find??)

What I don't know:
Where to go from here.

[bentwrench]

You did check the ground cable at the mtr.Didn't you?

[blacknchrome]

I did, thanks for the suggestion.

The answer was the Solenoid.  The new one I purchased was wired in reverse from the old one.  We replaced the new Solenoid with the old one and VROOOOOM!!!

Now i need to know how to replace a throttle cable.

[john]

   pardon me gents ....
            The answer was " the Solenoid."
   is this another name for starter relay ?
   or another part  all together ?
 I find myself  in this same predicament .. 

[blacknchrome]

I'm no expert but this is the part I bought.  Which I bought the wrong one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007YJ0T6A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[blacknchrome]

The part linked above looks VERY similar to the part that I actually needed.
I did a quick search and this is the part I should have ordered.
https://www.amazon.com/Caltric-Starter-Solenoid-Valkyrie-1997-2003/dp/B007473ODC/ref=pd_day0_263_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=51U3apZaySL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=98BXFX15NQG780ZA9J1Y

The defining difference that I can note between the two is where the positive lead attaches.  On the solenoid linked here the positive lead attaches on the right post and the wire leading to your starter attaches to the left post.
The solenoid linked in the above post is reversed.  I tried to just swap the wires but the holes don't line up with the posts.

Sorry if this is confusing.  I could take a picture of them side by side if it helps.

[Paladin528]

It shouldnt matter which way the two large cables are attached.  The relay only shorts those two together like you did with the wrench.
The problem is the wiring in the red connector was not correct for the relay.  A simple fix by removing the spades from the connector and putting them in the right spot.
only 3 connections are used on the red connector.  the 4th can be used for unswitched 12v power if needed.

[indybobm]

It shouldnt matter which way the two large cables are attached.  The relay only shorts those two together like you did with the wrench.
The problem is the wiring in the red connector was not correct for the relay.  A simple fix by removing the spades from the connector and putting them in the right spot.
only 3 connections are used on the red connector.  the 4th can be used for unswitched 12v power if needed.

Sorry, not true.  The post that the cable from the battery attaches to is connected internally to the red wire terminal that feeds the bike through the 30 amp fuse. If the relay has its connections reversed inside of the relay, or if the cable connections are reversed,the relay will not work.

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage05.html