Warning > SHINKO 230 Tour Master Front Tire on 2000 Interstate

[northernunity]

I just checked my front tire ( SHINKO 230 Tour Master 150/80-17M/C 72H ) on my 2000 Interstate and found the following cracks happening.  Thought I'd pass this along for others to watch out for.

This tire was put on bike new in the spring of 2015 at dealer when I bought bike. I have since put on 9,500 km ( approx 5,900 miles )   I was noticing a slight tire pressure leak so thought I'd examine tires for any punctures, nails, etc.

I was very surprised to find these cracks.  The tire has these cracks only in the center for about a 12" stretch.  As the pictures show ... tire depth in a good section is currently just under 4mm ... measurement into a cracked area shows 5mm >> about a 1mm crack !  The tire shows a date code of 28 11 so I assume that it was made in 2011 ... which would make it now 5 years old.

Recommended max rating is Max 908lbs @ 42 psi cold. I have ran this consistently at 38 on the Interstate with approx 50% time with two up riding on nice smooth highways.

After this discovery I am immediately going to have this changed out ... consider this a disaster about to happen ... thought it was worth sharing for others to look at theirs and keep an eye on it.

[big poppa pump]

That's a 4 year old tire that you installed in 2015. If the tire was stored improperly in a warehouse you are definitely going to see those cracks.

[..]

Tourmaster

Designed for longer distances and high speed touring, the Shinko 230 Tour Master Front Tire makes for a solid choice with predictable all weather handling and stability.

Aramid belted for high load capability
•Staggered tread design offers a quiet ride with excellent handling
•Tubeless, 4-ply design
•V-rated for speeds up to 149 mph



I use the Shinko Journey

The SE890 Journey Touring Radial is designed for larger touring bikes and cruisers with its versatile all-weather tread pattern. Available in sizes for Honda Valkyrie and Honda GL1500/1800 Gold Wing models.

•Designed for larger touring bikes and cruisers
•Aramid belted, radial construction
•5-ply tread, 3-ply sidewall
•H-rated, tubeless for speeds up to 130 mph

On my deceased ST 1300 I used Shinkos for over 50,000 miles.

[Cracker Jack]

That's a 4 year old tire that you installed in 2015. If the tire was stored improperly in a warehouse you are definitely going to see those cracks.

What storage conditions would you consider improper?

[big poppa pump]

That's a 4 year old tire that you installed in 2015. If the tire was stored improperly in a warehouse you are definitely going to see those cracks.

What storage conditions would you consider improper?

Too much sunlight, exposure to humidity/air/cold. All of this happens if you don't store it in a climate controlled warehouse.

[98valk]

I installed a Conti-Go 130/90-17 rear tire on the front. after 2-3k miles it did that same exact thing. The date code showed it was only a few months old when I bought it.  I'm at about 18k miles on the tire now, the cracks never got worst and it never loses any air. I check the cracks once/wk, they haven't change since they first developed.
And it is liquid balanced w/quad boss.
just my experience.

[John Schmidt]

I find 38psi a bit low in most installations, allows too much flexing on a heavy bike. That will also add to the wear integrity of the tire. I never run less than 40 in front and I don't have the weight of an I/S.

A mfr. date of 2811 does mean a 2011 tire, made just past mid-year. As stated, it was at least 3 1/2 yrs. old when mounted, something I wouldn't have allowed. The last tires I put on my ride were 4 months old in front, less than 2 months in back.

[northernunity]

I didn't choose this tire ...it was just installed brand new by used bike dealer I bought bike from to pass our re-sale certification tests ( Ontario Canada ).  "Assumed" it was OK as I checked it out on our forum ... never thought much about it after that.

I know it isn't the source of my air leak ... but just discovered these cracks while looking for source of leak.

I have tried different pressures in this tire, originally Honda spec of 35 but found front end wanted to drift out of large radius turns at highway speeds and made considerable noise ( like a bearing going ) while in these turns.  After much experimentation ... increasing to 38 got rid of the drift and most of the noise ... when I tried 40 psi ... felt nothing changed in the turns or noises but felt it a bit hard ... pounding over bumps ... so dropped back to 38.

I guess each model ( Intrerstate ) / rider weight is different ... our two rider weights are about 340 lbs combined  ... running 40 psi in rear Metzler ME 880 Marathon & #4 setting on shocks seems to work out best ... with the stated 38 psi in the front.

Just trying to give fellow riders a heads up to keep an eye on these tires ... just got back from local M/C tire dealer ... ordered the same Metzler ME880 Marathon for the front ... hopefully I am happier with that !

[F6Dave]

Isn't that a warranty issue?  I'd call Shinko and ask them to replace the tire.  Avon had some out-of-round tires a few years back, and they paid owners to have new tires mounted.

Even a 5 year old tire shouldn't crack that.  Car tires these days commonly last over 50,000 miles, which is more than 5 years for many drivers.  They suffer through hot and cold weather, wet and dry roads, even ice and snow.  Those cracks just shouldn't happen on any tire.

[Valkorado]

I installed a Conti-Go 130/90-17 rear tire on the front. after 2-3k miles it did that same exact thing. The date code showed it was only a few months old when I bought it.  I'm at about 18k miles on the tire now, the cracks never got worst and it never loses any air. I check the cracks once/wk, they haven't change since they first developed.
And it is liquid balanced w/quad boss.
just my experience.

That's a bigger gamble than I'd be willing to take.  I wouldn't trust riding that cracked tire to the grocery store.

[Bighead]

I installed a Conti-Go 130/90-17 rear tire on the front. after 2-3k miles it did that same exact thing. The date code showed it was only a few months old when I bought it.  I'm at about 18k miles on the tire now, the cracks never got worst and it never loses any air. I check the cracks once/wk, they haven't change since they first developed.
And it is liquid balanced w/quad boss.
just my experience.

That's a bigger gamble than I'd be willing to take.  I wouldn't trust riding that cracked tire to the grocery store.

I am with you on this one. I bought a new tire once and only had about 1200 miles on it and pickdd up a nail some would plug or patch it but to me my life is worth for than a few hundred dollars.

[salty1]

I installed a Conti-Go 130/90-17 rear tire on the front. after 2-3k miles it did that same exact thing. The date code showed it was only a few months old when I bought it.  I'm at about 18k miles on the tire now, the cracks never got worst and it never loses any air. I check the cracks once/wk, they haven't change since they first developed.
And it is liquid balanced w/quad boss.
just my experience.

That's a bigger gamble than I'd be willing to take.  I wouldn't trust riding that cracked tire to the grocery store.

DITTO!    More Shinko stinko!  Sorry for your troubles. 

[..]

I installed a Conti-Go 130/90-17 rear tire on the front. after 2-3k miles it did that same exact thing. The date code showed it was only a few months old when I bought it.  I'm at about 18k miles on the tire now, the cracks never got worst and it never loses any air. I check the cracks once/wk, they haven't change since they first developed.
And it is liquid balanced w/quad boss.
just my experience.

That's a bigger gamble than I'd be willing to take.  I wouldn't trust riding that cracked tire to the grocery store.

DITTO!    More Shinko stinko!  Sorry for your troubles. 

Please tell us about your personal experience with a Shinko. Thanks.

[bill-jr]

I got 7k on my first and last front shinko was
Bubbled and blistered should have been changed 1000 miles or so earlier ran it at 40 psi ?
Got about 7k on my avon now and still looks ... Well sorta newish ....

[Grandpot]

My experience with Chinese rubber is not good.  It doesn't matter if it is a tire or weather stripping.  They all seem to deteriorate prematurely.  I own an auto repair business and see this on a regular basis.  To sum it up, "It's cheap Chinese crap."  It may cost less, but it has very little value.

[3W-lonerider]

been running shiko tourmaster tires on the front of my trike for the last 5 years. probably 4 tires in 80,000 miles. have never had a problem with cracking or developing bubbles.
the side forces on a trike tire greatly exceed those on a normal bike.
so could'nt begin to tell you whats going on with those tires. also the shinko tires are the only tires iv'e put on the trike that don't severely cup after 5000 miles.
i only run 32 psi in mine.

[northernunity]

Ordered the new Metzeler tire for the front @ Cycle Salvage in Peterborough ... next day it was delivered to them ... picked it up the next day and all I have to do is put wheel back on !

Asked mechanic to look for source of my slow leak ... no visible damage to rim or side bead of tire, valve didn't leak ( replaced it anyways with one that has tightening nut on the outside ) ... his assumption was that air was starting to leak out of the cracked area.

For those members that live in the Kawartha Lakes area in Ontario > Cycle Salvage posts a 30% discount off MRSP for tires > brings it down to close to what internet price delivered would be.  Showed my CMC riders membership card for an additional 10% discount.

Counter staff were pleasant, mechanics were pleasant ... all around a good experience replacing this tire @ Cycle Salvage.

Now ...  to clean everything while wheel is off > calipers, wheel put it back on and break in the new tire.

[falconbrother]

I mounted my own tires on my Harley FLHTC and they were Stinkos.  I liked them but, they wear out quick.  I liked them because they were cheap and easy to mount.  I could wear out a rear tire in a season of riding.  Never saw on crack.  But, as a general rule, I'm not real crazy about Chinese rubber.  I had a blow out on my old motorhome with a Chinese tire.  SUCKED!!  I have a new set of Avons on my Valkyrie so, it will be a while before I need to think about a new tire. 

[..]

I mounted my own tires on my Harley FLHTC and they were Stinkos.  I liked them but, they wear out quick.  I liked them because they were cheap and easy to mount.  I could wear out a rear tire in a season of riding.  Never saw on crack.  But, as a general rule, I'm not real crazy about Chinese rubber.  I had a blow out on my old motorhome with a Chinese tire.  SUCKED!!  I have a new set of Avons on my Valkyrie so, it will be a while before I need to think about a new tire. 

Korean.

Established in 1946, the Shinko Group began as a manufacturer of bicycle tires and tubes in Osaka, Japan that today has become a burgeoning manufacture of rubber products.

In 1998 the Shinko Group purchased the motorcycle tire technology and molds from Yokohama Rubber Co., and began production of these products under the Shinko Tire brand. With manufacturing based in South Korea and design based in Japan, the company has seamlessly combined Japanese engineering and design principles with South Korean production and quality control standards. Today Shinko Tires produces approximately 200,000 motorcycle tires per month.

In the United States Shinko Tires are imported by Western Power Sports, Inc. (WPS), with corporate headquarters in Boise, Idaho. With a strong foothold on the power sports market, and with warehouses located in Boise, Idaho; Fresno, California; Ashley, Indiana; Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania; and Memphis, Tennessee, Shinko Tires USA-in conjunction with WPS-is proud to bring you the Shinko line of Sportbike, Cruiser, Scooter, Off road, and Dual sport tires.

On going testing in the USA and R & D at Shinko Tire's factory means a continuous path of exciting tires to meet the need of today's riders. Shinko Tires and WPS are here to serve your needs.

[northernunity]

So I put about 150 km on the new Metzeler today and definitely felt a positive difference. I know longer had to put much input into those highway speed long radius turns ... no trying to drift out of the turn ... best way to describe it was like drawing a warm knife through butter ... I literally thought turn and around I went ... same turns, same pressure, same speed ... only difference is the tire.

I also noticed something else ... why does the Shinko last longer ??? perhaps because it starts with much more tread depth ?  I don't know what the new tread depth is on the Shinko .. but after 9,500 km it still had just under 4mm left as pictures show ... with my tread depth guage ... my new Metzeler is starting at just over 3 mm.

I know these tires cost more ... and I'll definitely go through them quicker ... but the difference in riding ( so far ... as they aren't broken in yet ) will probably justify it ... at least to me.
 

[Cracker Jack]

So I put about 150 km on the new Metzeler today and definitely felt a positive difference. I know longer had to put much input into those highway speed long radius turns ... no trying to drift out of the turn ... best way to describe it was like drawing a warm knife through butter ... I literally thought turn and around I went ... same turns, same pressure, same speed ... only difference is the tire.

I also noticed something else ... why does the Shinko last longer ??? perhaps because it starts with much more tread depth ?  I don't know what the new tread depth is on the Shinko .. but after 9,500 km it still had just under 4mm left as pictures show ... with my tread depth guage ... my new Metzeler is starting at just over 3 mm.

I know these tires cost more ... and I'll definitely go through them quicker ... but the difference in riding ( so far ... as they aren't broken in yet ) will probably justify it ... at least to me.
 

I suspect that new Metzler with just over 3 mm (about 1/8') tread depth may not be new.

[..]

So I put about 150 km on the new Metzeler today and definitely felt a positive difference. I know longer had to put much input into those highway speed long radius turns ... no trying to drift out of the turn ... best way to describe it was like drawing a warm knife through butter ... I literally thought turn and around I went ... same turns, same pressure, same speed ... only difference is the tire.

I also noticed something else ... why does the Shinko last longer ??? perhaps because it starts with much more tread depth ?  I don't know what the new tread depth is on the Shinko .. but after 9,500 km it still had just under 4mm left as pictures show ... with my tread depth guage ... my new Metzeler is starting at just over 3 mm.

I know these tires cost more ... and I'll definitely go through them quicker ... but the difference in riding ( so far ... as they aren't broken in yet ) will probably justify it ... at least to me.
 

If it's really 3mm they must be hard as concrete to get any decent mileage from them?

[northernunity]

Tire is new ... still has all the nubs, the release agent coating ... I was surprised at the depth ...

Tried to find Metzeler spec sheets that would show initial tread depth ... haven't been successful yet ... nor for the Shinko ... think that would be valuable input when considering purchase of new tire ... ie might explain one factor in why some last longer than others ?

[Jess from VA]

I love the ME880s, and except for a couple experiments, it's all I've run on the fronts of two valks for 10 years.  I recommend pressure of at least 40 if you want it to last.  I only get about 8K of good miles on them (less than many, or even most), and can get another K of not so good miles (but I don't do that anymore).  I'm not happy with 8K, but I love the ride, handling and gluey stickiness in all weather and rain.

I'm not happy with the tread depth on any front radials.  I think it's not science at all, it's selling more tires.

[..]

Tire is new ... still has all the nubs, the release agent coating ... I was surprised at the depth ...

Tried to find Metzeler spec sheets that would show initial tread depth ... haven't been successful yet ... nor for the Shinko ... think that would be valuable input when considering purchase of new tire ... ie might explain one factor in why some last longer than others ?

From their web site.

Tread depth

Legally the tire has to be changed accordingly to the national law. METZELER recommends changing tires once the tread depth is below 2mm.

Maybe you need to check the tread depth one more time?

[davit]

10,000 miles on this Shinko Tourmaster 230.

[davit]

Another view.

[northernunity]

Just to clear couple items up ...

My intention isn't to criticize any one tire manufacturer ... just to have people maybe take an extra look at their tires more frequently  ... as I was very surprised by what I found.

I have included pics of the new Metzler ... showing the new tire nubs ( ie it "is" new ) and my tread guage measuring 3 mm ( yes I did go and check my tread guage to a ruler )

Really becomes confusing ... I did find the same comment from Metzler about recommended changing at 2mm ... wonder how long it will be till this tire gets there.

I did find old (2000) Metzler sheets showing the new tire depth of different sizing of tires > ranged from 4mm to 9mm ... this front tire size wasn't listed then ... and I assume this list showed both front & rear tires.

As equally disturbing is that here in Ontario Canada we need to certify our bikes to register them after a re-sale ... the requirements for M/C's that I found was that minimum tread depth must be 1.5mm to certify ..

My Shinko tire looked much like "Davits" picture above and I had 9,500 km on it ... so obviously gives great mileage .... maybe I got a bad batch, maybe it was stored incorrectly before mounting ... who knows ... BUT I just wanted to warn riders to check their tires !

If anyone has contacts at either Shinko or Metzeler I would love to have some technical input into what I am seeing .. causes of crack ... what initial tread depth is on either of these tires ?

I personally wasn't happy with the handling on my bike with my setup with the Shinko and was going to change it out after this year anyways ... again each persons experience and riding conditions are unique.  After the initial handling with the Metzeler on my setup ... I absolutely love it ... will it last long enough to justify the cost of replacement more frequently ??? ... again a personal preference and I'll have to wait and see !

Please check your tires frequently !

Here is the new Metzler



Be safe & check those tires !

[Jess from VA]

When all else fails, Email the company and ask.  It may take awhile, but you often get an answer, though I have had answers that don't answer the question at all (from Avon, several times).  So hit reply and try again.

The guys who answer emails are often just a bit smarter than the guys who answer the phones, at least that's my experience.  And since they are putting it in writing (for the Co), they may even do some research and try to be more accurate.  A good way to hold their feet to the fire (so to speak) is to link to their own website, in reference to your questions (in your email).   

Once a phone is hung up, short of a recording, the conversation never happened.

[..]

Just looking at that new Metzler makes me think it was a badly made tire. I wonder if one can measure the diameter across the crown of your tire and then measure another same tire and if there would be a difference.

The tread depth you are showing and the photos make the tire look like it's nearly worn out.

I'd be going to my local tire dealer to try and make a tread depth comparison.

[..]

Addendum

I'd be going to the dealer and asking to see some more Metzlers to compare tread depth.

Honestly, that sucker is nearly worn out.

[northernunity]

Unfortunately our M/C dealers don't typically stock tires ... just because of the stale dating thing and the vast amount of tires & sizes.

Dealers here order from a tire wholesaler ... don't have to stock tires, get current inventory and usually next day delivery.

That makes it difficult to measure other tires ... before buying

I am not sure the Metzeler is not correct at 3mm ... especially if it takes 13,000 km ( 8000 miles ) to wear down to the 1.5mm mark ... time will tell ... I doubt that many people measure their tires when they buy them ... just as they watch them wear.

I will try contacting both Metzeler & Shinko with my questions.

Other Valkyrie riders around where I live typically get around the 12,000 > 13,000 km mark on front tires > Avon's & Metzeler's are common ... again no one measures when new ... just when they see them wearing down ... no one else around here that I have met has experience with the Shinko

[Gavin_Sons]

my metz has about 6k on it and has more tread than that tire. I would be asking questions about it for sure.

[98valk]

from a few yrs ago

F metz should be 7/32 (.2187)

R metz should be 9/32 (.3543)

E3 rear is 10/32

[Jess from VA]

Just to complicate things, ME880s in Valk sizes come in both radial and bias (H rated), and radial is called for and is the better (and more expensive) tire.  But the bias will work. 

But it is easy to get a bias and run it and not ever know it if you don't look at the sidewall printing.

I have no idea if tread depth is the same for Radials and Bias.

 ME880 150/80VR-17 (radial)
 

[98valk]

Just to complicate things, ME880s in Valk sizes come in both radial and bias (H rated), and radial is called for and is the better (and more expensive) tire.  But the bias will work. 

But it is easy to get a bias and run it and not ever know it if you don't look at the sidewall printing.

I have no idea if tread depth is the same for Radials and Bias.

 ME880 150/80VR-17 (radial)
 

those #s are from my notes for the radials when I had them. 

[northernunity]

I have a bias tire ... no radials were available ... and no V rated either !

Perhaps if I wanted to wait ... don't know how long ? ... but with that crack wanted it done now!

I will look into the radials & tread depth as well as the V rated ones.

The Shinko was a bias tire as well and was reasonable other than some corners at speed that I referred to. 

Just did another 150 km with two up at highway speeds and tire behaved wonderfully ... highway curves at speed ... almost went around on it's own ... and very easy to accelerate out ... no fear of drifting out of the corner.

Thanks to everyone for input ... I will follow up with both companies and see what I can find