New to 98 Valkyrie Stranded on the way to work. Suspected Fuel Feed problem

[Johnparcamper]

OK after doing the petcock I still wanted to drain the tank due to the Fact I dropped a plastic cap in it while putting Slick 50 Fuel System cleaner in it.  I had a little under a half tank of gas after doing the work on it last week.  I wanted to run this out So I put the fuel selector on Run and took off for work.  About 3 miles from the house it started spitting and sputtering I switched to reserved to no avail and ended up pulling over and it shut down like it was out of gas.  I was stuck on I70 Between a busy on ramp(Brice Rd) and the outer belt I270.  I walked about 3 miles there and back to the nearest gas station, thinking maybe I let the gas get too low.  Paid $14 for a 2 gallon gas can and bought a couple of gallons of gas.  Put that in and tried to start the bike.  It just spit and sputtered.  I called for a flatbed tow, and waited.  While I was waiting I tried to start the bike again.  To my surprise it fired and ran as it should.  I cancelled the flatbed and took it to the next exit ramp looped around the other way and headed for home thinking I wasn't going to push my luck.  Right after I set the mechanical cruise control the bike started missing    I was able to move to the right and make the off ramp for Brice Rd.  I made it up to the top of the ramp but was running out of Berm so I stopped at the top of the ramp so I could leave the bike on the pavement.  I called the tow company back, 2.5 Hours later the bike is back in the garage awaiting another Tank removal.

My thoughts are this:  1998 with just under 18K when I bought it.  The guy I bought it from apparently couldn't get it running right, gave up and sold it to me. 

I suspect that the inside of the tank is rusty due to the accumulation of moisture due to sitting.  As I mentioned in my previous post the screws for the petcock were not tight.  There was a fuel filter added between the petcock and the fuel Rail.  I can't see what is in the fuel filter since it is aluminum. 

Since I just rebuilt the petcock I will check it first.  I really don't expect it to be the problem. 

If that turns out to be ok I will try to check the flow through the inline filter.  If it is plugged up the only place it can be coming from is the tank. 

Pull the tank, remove the petcock, empty the tank through a paper towel filter to see what I can catch.  If I get any type of rust out of the tank, find a Cap to fit over the Petcock inlet.   I have seen that type of cap but I suspect matching the threads could be a problem.  If anyone has any idea for plugging the petcock inlet on the tank I would appreciate your input. 

Rinse the tank out, Get a couple of gallons of metal rescue and let it sit in the tank overnight then let it sit on one side for 8 hours then the other side for 8 hours then upside down for 8 hours.  Then drain it out rinse the tank thoroughly with water.  Blow it out with air, then rinse it with gas, blow it out with air, set it out in the sun and let the rest of the moisture evaporate.  Put everything back together, with new fuel line. 

I will either eliminate the inline filter or get one that I can see through. 

Time to get to work.   

[Fazer]

I see you are in Columbus.  If you include your location in your profile, local folks are inclined to offer personal assistance. 

These bikes rely on gravity flow from the tank to the carbs.  An inline filter may be slowing your fuel.  You might also try opening your gas cap.  It could be your vent line is kinked from when you removed the tank and creating a vacuum when you run your bike for a certain interval. 

Luck.

[Patrick]

What Fazer said. Classic symptom of kinked tank vent line and opening the fuel cap breaks the vacuum to allow fuel to flow again. [ Or letting it sit for a short period]

Just reach in behind the tank and carefully pull the kink out of the line that ends up by the swing arm. Pay no attention to the empty ' T ' also in that line, its supposed to be like that.

[Johnparcamper]

Hmmmmm hadn't thought of that already pulled the tank off and was going to look up how to remove the air box so that I can get to the added on fuel Filter.  I couldn't tell if the vent line was kinked when I removed the tank it was certainly kinked when I jacked the tank up to remove the vacuum line. 

OBTW the Petcock seems Fine.  I was able to test it before I unhooked the Vacuum and gas flows well. 

One thing I question with the add on fuel line is this.  Should the Fuel line be at a downward angle toward the fuel Rail?  If I remember correctly min is kind of laying flat. 

[signart]

Ahh, the filter. Put it back stock. Fuel line length exactly.

[Johnparcamper]

I am going to run with the inline filter for at least the rest of this season or until fuel flow is impeded.  My concern is still that the gas tank could have rust in it.....

 :cooldude:I think you guys were right about the kink in the vent line.  I did open the tank when I got stuck this morning, I put more gas in....   

I also figured out and easier way to put the vacuum line back on.  I used a craftsman awl and a very small somewhat long flat screw driver I held one side of the light wire hose clamp and used the awl on the other side to match the holes up and pushed the awl through both.  I then used the flat screwdriver to work the clamp to where it should be. 

Thanks for your help you guys saved me some money and a lot of time.  You are Awesome

[Johnparcamper]

OK after putting the tank back on and making sure the vent line isn't kinked.  I took the bike for about a 10 mile ride to and from the nearest Meijer for some grocery shopping.  Ran fine no problems.  This was Saturday night.  Filled the bike up @ Meijer. 

Didn't go anywhere Sunday, and it rained Monday so took the car to work. 

It was gorgeous this morning so I attempted to take the bike to work.  Key word is attempted. 

Right around the same place but on the left side of the road I started losing throttle like I was running out of gas. 

Pulled over to the much wider left berm and expected it to be shut down but it was running and I revved it up and it seemed to be running fine. 

I got on it and came out of the hole like you should coming off the berm of the freeway.  Got almost to James and the same thing happened this time I pulled over to the right. 

Sat there for maybe 5 minutes fished my hand up under the tank so that I could actually feel to non kinked vent line.  Opened the tank just in case.  Fiddled with it for a while and finally got it running. 

I babied it home pretty much in the right hand lane all the way put the bike in the garage and took the car to work. 

To be brutally honest I have zero confidence in this bike in it's current condition.  I have worked 12 hour days for the past 2 days and I don't feel like fooling with the bike when I get home. 

My thinking is this, Please feel free to weigh in with your opinion/experience. 

18 Year old Bike with 18,000 miles.  This bike has sat most of it's life. 

6 Carburetors, 6 Jets and 6 Floats. 

1 after market inline filter. 

1 Gas tank with interior condition unknown, although I have my suspicions. 

I still have the 0 ring that came with the petcock rebuild kit.  Does anyone have any ideas on getting the Screen out of the tank without tearing it up?

My Plan:

1 Remove Fuel filter and fuel line.  Open and inspect the fuel filter for sediment.  Any Sediment found proceed to step 2.

2 Remove the Tank, Remove the petcock, Drain the tank through a funnel and Paper towel into a gas can.  Paying attention to what comes out.  If any rust comes out rinse the tank out to get any heavy debris out.  Dump 2 gallons of Metal rescue in the tank moving the tank around every few hours to get the Metal rescue soaked everywhere.   

3 Remove the air box and remove each carburetor, clean the bowl, inspect and clean the jet, thoroughly clean the rest of the Carburetor.  I am very curious how the throttle works for the six Carburetors. 

4 I figure if I am going to go through all this I might as well De-smog the bike while I am at it. 

5 If I do find rust in the tank I am going to buy a see through inline Filter if for nothing else peace of mind.  I figure when I look at it and don't see any debris in it, I have the tank cleaned out. 

[Roidfingers]

Pull that stupid filter first. and make sure there is no low sag in ur gas line.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Pull that stupid filter first. and make sure there is no low sag in ur gas line.

+1

[gordonv]

You are describing a classic condition of fuel starvation. Drive down the Hwy, and engine starts bogging down, pull over, engine keeps running, runs fine at idle at the side of the road, then after a while attempt to drive off again.

You might have problems still with the carbs (clogged jets), but it sounds like fuel delivery problems.

Most have found that the introduction of a fuel filter causes more problems. The filter, and the additional length of fuel line of the length of the filter, causes a low spot in the line and this problem you described. Remove the filter, and insure that the line is always flowing down hill to the fuel rails.

Petcock. Another regular point of fuel deliver problems, but it sounds like this one you have fixed.

[Bighead]

Take the filter off as suggested that will more than likely fix your problem. The exact factory length of fuel line is critical not an inch mor to make it easier to hook up the EXACT LENGTH. if you tank has Rust you will be able to see it by opening the filler cap.

[signart]

If you really think the tank is rusty, any other filter down stream from the tank is not going to help if the tank filter is stopped up. While you have the tank off screw a fine thread bolt (I forget exact size), I think 1/2" just a thread or two into the plastic tank filter and pull it out. Then you can look at it, clean it and remove any sediment which gathered around it.
Do all that other stuff and add that clear plastic filter in the line, you better leave early for work

[Patrick]

I've been running an in-line filter since '98 with no problems. It just has to be installed correctly, no extra length to the line.

[Johnparcamper]

I think you guys are right about the extra line length with the addition of the filter.  You can't necessarily see the rust in the tank since water is heavier than gas the rust is typically around the lowest point. 

I am guessing based on what I have seen under the tank that the gas line was just cut and the filter was added.  I just started the bike and it didn't want to run.  However once I turned the gas on it ran just fine LOL.  So it's pull the tank pull the filter, see if the ends of the hose will connect while the gas is connected at both ends and then buy a new piece of fuel line. 

One other thing is I replaced 1 bad shock with a pair of progressive shocks and have not adjusted them they are still on the softest setting and the bike squats quite a bit when I sit on it.  I adjusted the shock up to the first preload.  We will see how it rides. 

I hate the thought of pulling the tank again......   Is there any reason I couldn't lengthen the vacuum line to the petcock?  And... Does everybody have those chrome plates that go around the fuel selector and the ignition? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think you guys are right about the extra line length with the addition of the filter.  You can't necessarily see the rust in the tank since water is heavier than gas the rust is typically around the lowest point. 

I am guessing based on what I have seen under the tank that the gas line was just cut and the filter was added.  I just started the bike and it didn't want to run.  However once I turned the gas on it ran just fine LOL.  So it's pull the tank pull the filter, see if the ends of the hose will connect while the gas is connected at both ends and then buy a new piece of fuel line. 

One other thing is I replaced 1 bad shock with a pair of progressive shocks and have not adjusted them they are still on the softest setting and the bike squats quite a bit when I sit on it.  I adjusted the shock up to the first preload.  We will see how it rides. 

I hate the thought of pulling the tank again......   Is there any reason I couldn't lengthen the vacuum line to the petcock?  And... Does everybody have those chrome plates that go around the fuel selector and the ignition? 

The chrome engine hangers are after market. Why do you want to lengthen the vacuum line ?

[MarkT]

My install on Jade is different, but the lessons learned can apply to your issues.  I installed a belly tank and plumbed it to retain the OEM gravity feed, so the belly tank is used as a large reserve - fuel pump runs only 9 minutes per refuel if I need to bring the lower fuel up to the main. So I have a fuel filter, solenoid shutoff, and modded gravity feed line. I installed a clear fuel filter, same one I use in my Honda tractor, from NAPA.  I got fuel starvation but could have been from other issues.  Replaced it with the much better flowing filter that M&H uses in their belly tank kit.  No more problems with the filter.  I had problems caused by loops in the fuel line so redesigned it.  I replaced the plastic T where the fuel splits to the carbs, with a brass one and screw-in barbs. This allowed more stuff in the line w/o kinks, dips, loops.  I had a fuel starve problem from the Dan-Marc orifice too small, pulling a heavy trailer cross country to Inzane.  Installed a much bigger solenoid from ehcotech.com; 3/8" internal orifice; p/n 291260556269; cost $25.95.  The fuel line should be level or downhill, no loops, dips, rises that can create air bubbles in the line. If you have a vent problem from pinching the vent, you can stick a coin under the seal of the gas cap as a roadside fix. Due to my modified install I have drilled a small vent in the neck of the filler collar, and the lower tank vent is connected to the OEM vent line to vent it. My petcock is modified to be manual; no vacuum operation, and the vacuum line to #6 is removed and all the runner vents plugged, with the bike desmogged.  I have no more fuel problems.

[Roidfingers]

Here's where you can get those covers. I originally bout the dog ear looking ones but I'm gonna pull those and go with the set that covers the area completely.

http://www.carolinabikeandtrike.com/Covers1.htm

Sell you mine for 75. Original 95.

[Johnparcamper]

I want to lengthen the petcock vacuum line because it is such a pain to reconnect.  I was asking about the engine hangers, (I didn't know what they were called) because I have to take the fuel selector side off to disconnect the fuel line.  It is 3 bolts with spacers and then you have to align the fuel selector plate with one of the holes.  This works fine if the Petcock is in the exactly right position. 

HOW DO YOU INSERT IMAGES HERE???????????????

[The emperor has no clothes]

I want to lengthen the petcock vacuum line because it is such a pain to reconnect.  I was asking about the engine hangers, (I didn't know what they were called) because I have to take the fuel selector side off to disconnect the fuel line.  It is 3 bolts with spacers and then you have to align the fuel selector plate with one of the holes.  This works fine if the Petcock is in the exactly right position. 

HOW DO YOU INSERT IMAGES HERE???????????????

there is a way to remount the engine hanger to make things much easier. I'm on my phone now but when I get home I will try to find the link. Usually for me the vacuum line is the easiest. It's the main fuel line that is tight because of no extra length. But yes there is no problem with a longer vacuum line as long as its not so long to get kinked.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I want to lengthen the petcock vacuum line because it is such a pain to reconnect.  I was asking about the engine hangers, (I didn't know what they were called) because I have to take the fuel selector side off to disconnect the fuel line.  It is 3 bolts with spacers and then you have to align the fuel selector plate with one of the holes.  This works fine if the Petcock is in the exactly right position. 

HOW DO YOU INSERT IMAGES HERE???????????????

Wiggy is the man !
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,85788.0.html

[The emperor has no clothes]

I want to lengthen the petcock vacuum line because it is such a pain to reconnect.  I was asking about the engine hangers, (I didn't know what they were called) because I have to take the fuel selector side off to disconnect the fuel line.  It is 3 bolts with spacers and then you have to align the fuel selector plate with one of the holes.  This works fine if the Petcock is in the exactly right position. 

HOW DO YOU INSERT IMAGES HERE???????????????

there is a way to remount the engine hanger to make things much easier. I'm on my phone now but when I get home I will try to find the link. Usually for me the vacuum line is the easiest. It's the main fuel line that is tight because of no extra length. But yes there is no problem with a longer vacuum line as long as its not so long to get kinked.

I couldn't find a link to the hanger mod. But it's pretty simple. I will describe it the best I can from memory.
Your engine hanger now is likely mounted with chrome bolts. Remove those and replace with studs that will stay mounted to everything. Then get some chrome acorn nuts to mount your hanger on with. You might have to adjust the length of the studs. Hope this makes sense. 

[Six-Cylinder Hooligan]

PM sent. I live the next exit east of you on 70, off 310. Hit me up if you need a hand with your bike. I know my way around Valks pretty well.

Cheers,
-Art

[Johnparcamper]

OK I removed the inline filter after pulling the fuel line off.  I took the Filter housing apart and the filter medium looked brand new.  This required removing the air box.  I found it more difficult to remove the first time than it was to put it back on.  I removed all of the clamps to take the air box off and didn't put them back on until I had all of the intake boots lined up over the Carbs. 

For the Fuel Line 5/16 was too small and 3/8 was too big.  I went with the 3/8 and used the regular screw type hose clamps instead of the spring clamps.  The spring clamps wouldn't fit over the O.D. of the 3/8 fuel Line.  Once I got everything back together and tightened down I fired the bike up.  It was running fine but after it warmed up gas was dripping off the Petcock.  I couldn't tell where it was coming from, was mighty frustrated, and called it a day.  I left the garage door cracked to let the gasoline vapors vent.

I went back out this morning to see if I could find out where exactly the fuel was leaking from.  I was thinking either the new fuel line or maybe the petcock stem.  I didn't mess with the Petcock nut this time so it shouldn't have moved I didn't think that was it. 

I fired the bike up and let it run until I could shut the choke completely off...   No gas leak so far.  It was leaking like a sieve yesterday evening. 

I am concerned about the size 3/8 I.D. that I put on but I can't imagine that would have sealed up over night. 

One other thing I Screwed a bolt into the Air box hole for the Smog controls.  Bike seems to run just fine, but I haven't had it out on the road yet.   

[signart]

I forget the exact size, maybe metric, but there is a hose made for automotive fuel injection that fits perfectly. It fits and makes a very heavy duty replacement. Should find it at NAPA .

[Johnparcamper]

This P.O.S. shut down on me again today.  Fuel was on filter is removed.  Since I didn't know the exact length of the fuel line I hooked it up to the fuel rail T, put the tank back on with the front bolt in to keep it in place, marked the line where it butted against the petcock then cut it off and attached it to the petcock and the damn thing still shut down on me.  Even after I got it running again and never exceeded 3000 RPM I thought it was going to shut down again on the way home.  This by far is the absolute worst bike I have ever owned.  Honda engineering SUCKS!

[Gavin_Sons]

This P.O.S. shut down on me again today.  Fuel was on filter is removed.  Since I didn't know the exact length of the fuel line I hooked it up to the fuel rail T, put the tank back on with the front bolt in to keep it in place, marked the line where it butted against the petcock then cut it off and attached it to the petcock and the damn thing still shut down on me.  Even after I got it running again and never exceeded 3000 RPM I thought it was going to shut down again on the way home.  This by far is the absolute worst bike I have ever owned.  Honda engineering SUCKS!

Don't think the problem is the honda engineering. Someone at sometime screwed with the fuel line length. Soumds more to me like a vent line plugged. I understand you're frustrated but keep looking and tracking down stuff and you will get it. Are you sure your petcock is working properly?

[da prez]

John, you are not going to like my reply , B U T. Start over , you were offered help by a fellow rider.
  Start over as if it was a new job. Forget what you have done and do everything by the book. I have done several and use this method. Return it to stock first, then , when you have it running properly , start doing the mods. It is easier to go back to the last thing you did than sort out a mess. I had one that was de-smogged (?) and when I went thru the work , found mistakes that needed correcting.
 I have been in your position many times. FORGET what was done and start over with the help that was offered.

                                  da prez

[Johnparcamper]

Yes somebody added a small fuel filter to the fuel line before I got the bike.  I am also having and intermittent problem with a small amount of fuel pooling on the top of the right side of the engine even though the bike leans left on the kick stand.  

When the bike shut down yesterday I didn't open the tank or anything Just cranked the bike over a few times and it finally started.  

[Johnparcamper]

Whatever!

[pancho]

"This by far is the absolute worst bike I have ever owned.  Honda engineering SUCKS!"


Yeah......    Six-Cylinder Holligan may be willing to take it off your hands,,,  save you all the mess.

[Gavin_Sons]

Hell I'll take it off his hands to save him some heartache. 

[indybobm]

Remember, Johnparcamper said that the original owner sold it because he could not get it to run right.
Maybe it is something other than fuel related.

[gordonv]

Remember, Johnparcamper said that the original owner sold it because he could not get it to run right.
Maybe it is something other than fuel related.

I think with the above statement and thought, it might be a great idea for someones to show up and give the bike a once over and ride. See what might not be right.

[davit]

John, you are not going to like my reply , B U T. Start over , you were offered help by a fellow rider.
  Start over as if it was a new job. Forget what you have done and do everything by the book. I have done several and use this method. Return it to stock first, then , when you have it running properly , start doing the mods. It is easier to go back to the last thing you did than sort out a mess. I had one that was de-smogged (?) and when I went thru the work , found mistakes that needed correcting.
 I have been in your position many times. FORGET what was done and start over with the help that was offered.

                                  da prez

Wise words.

Don't know if the op is still with us, but I just rebuilt/replaced my petcock cover set and had identical symptoms - bike died three miles from home, fuel-starved.

Towed it home, started fine the next day.

Since it ran fine before fiddling with the petcock, I pulled the tank removed and examined the petcock. 

Fortunately I have developed the habit of retaining old parts until absolutely certain the repair works.  It turns out I had installed the large diaphragm backwards.  Flipped it around and it works fine.

Attached are a couple of picks of the old petcock, with the parts in the correct order and orientation.  Hope this helps someone.

[dragonslayer]

don't know if it's been mentioned.the tour I bought has a clogged vent line in the tank.Blow thru the vent line and make sure it's not clogged inside the tank.I tried everything to clear it and nothing has helped so I'm using a vented cap off an old magna,fits perfect,

[Johnparcamper]

My original Plan:

1 Remove Fuel filter and fuel line.  Open and inspect the fuel filter for sediment.  Any Sediment found proceed to step 2.  This turned out to be a non issue as far as Junk in the after market Fuel Filter.  I left the Filter off and have replaced the fuel line twice. 

2 Remove the Tank, Remove the petcock, Drain the tank through a funnel and Paper towel into a gas can.  Paying attention to what comes out.  If any rust comes out rinse the tank out to get any heavy debris out.  Dump 2 gallons of Metal rescue in the tank moving the tank around every few hours to get the Metal rescue soaked everywhere.   I did this and should have done it when I first bought the bike, it isn't the solution to the problem but I drained the Tank into and old T-Shirt and got rust particles out of the Tank which means THE TANK IS RUSTED INSIDE!  2 gallons of metal rescue 24 hours Soak, Drain, Rinse, blow out allow to dry reinstall petcock semi-loosely, align petcock, tighten, reinstall. 

3 Remove the air box and remove each carburetor, clean the bowl, inspect and clean the jet, thoroughly clean the rest of the Carburetor.  I am very curious how the throttle works for the six Carburetors.  I still think this would be a Very Good Idea, but it is my understanding when you pull the Carbs you have to sync them when you put them back on.  This is beyond my expertise.

4 I figure if I am going to go through all this I might as well De-smog the bike while I am at it.  Bolt is still in the air box but I have not done any additional work on de-smog. 

5 If I do find rust in the tank I am going to buy a see through inline Filter if for nothing else peace of mind.  I figure when I look at it and don't see any debris in it, I have the tank cleaned out.  I installed 5/16 Fuel line that I got from Autozone.  It fit Very tight, but with a little bit of Slick 50 One Lube I was able to work it on both ends. 

6 The Bike will not even attempt to start now.  I replaced the vacuum line to cylinder 6 leaving a couple of extra inches to allow for easy connection.  The tank line is not plugged, it also is not hooked up I forgot to reinstall it during re-assembly.  last reply to this post talked about the Petcock being put together wrong, specifically the large Diaphragm being installed backward.  When I rebuilt the diaphragm I put it back together the same way I took it apart being very careful as I took it apart and laid the parts out in order.  That is not to say that the Petcock wasn't already rebuilt and assembled wrong in the first place which could have caused all the problems I have been having with this bike.  I have a new Petcock on order. 

7 I am getting ready to move, I close on my house 8/26, have found another house that needs to be re-habbed.  I am going to be busy trying to get the place I am buying, liveable.  So I will have little time to fool with the bike.  I figure if I can't get it running my self it is time to bite the bullet and take it to a mechanic, or make it someone elses problem.  I have no emotional attachement to this bike.  It is by far the worst bike I have ever owned.

[Valkorado]

Recently made my OEM petcock manual, already had a Dan-Marc installed.  Working great.

John, I don't doubt this may be the worst bike you have ever owned.  Sounds like it was a poorly maintained one, too.  Valkyries are almost true classics and still spank most cruisers out there.  Many are still running strong at 200,000+ miles with no major engine work.  DDT has over half a million miles clocked his bike.

I think you will find few on this board who would agree that Honda engineering sucks.

[CRAIGVALK]

I would make sure your tank is vented properly. Check the gas cap. Mine died on the freeway on day and after opening the cap it started and all was well. I found that my tank bag was pushing down on the cap.  Never happened again.

[MarkT]

I would make sure your tank is vented properly. Check the gas cap. Mine died on the freeway on day and after opening the cap it started and all was well. I found that my tank bag was pushing down on the cap.  Never happened again.

On this issue a roadside fix is put a penny under the cap.  If it is the problem, when it stops, on the side of the road, put your ear next to the cap and open it - you may hear a whoosh when you break the seal.  BTW that hose is not needed for the bike to run. You can shorten or remove it - potential problem gone.

The fuel line must be level or downhill - any uphill segment will produce the problems you are having.

A bad petcock can be eliminated with a Pingel.  A vacuum problem can be eliminated by making the OEM petcock manual.  A leaky petcock - Pingel again.

The bike won't tolerate a filter on the fuel line.  I have tried 3 of them, even ones made for gravity feed fuel systems.

Have addressed all of these problems with 4 Valkyries.

[Harryc]

Beside the fact that is doesn't start now, all I can ascertain by the OPs problem is he has a bike that dies once it heats up. Everyone is assuming it is fuel related. Sounds like a bad CDI/ECU to me.