Valve adjustment?

[Romeo]

I have a question. I am wondering if this is the root of a problem I am having.
My Valk is basically running like crap. Very noisy, lacking power.
If the leftside cam is one tooth off, and a valve adjustment is done, then you realize the cam is off a tooth, and you remedy that situation, will the valves now be so out of adjustment that compression will be effected? Also, could this caise thebike to run very lean?

[WintrSol]

The valve tappet adjustment is independent of the camshaft timing; you set it when the valve is fully closed, which is fairly easy to perceive as you turn the engine. Having the camshaft timing off, though, *could* have caused a piston to hit a valve, which bend fairly easily, so then the tappet can't be set. A compression test will reveal a lot about the condition of your valves.

[Romeo]

I guess I should rephrase the question. If the timing is off by a tooth when adjusting the valves, is there a chance cerain valves are being held open when their particular cam lobe is at the top of its travel, since the lash was set when it wasnt at the top?

[Chrisj CMA]

how is it running now?  One tooth off is not enough to have a valve contact a piston.  I agree the setting of the valves should still be good before and after the one tooth off correction.

[Romeo]

It is running absolutely terrible. I have compression readings all over the place, the ground straps on some of the sparkplugs are white in appearance. And it sounds as if its lugging, lots of noise from the motor. I recently (two days ago) had the carbs off and checked all the jets, they all look fine. The float bowls are getting fuel, yet it seems to be starving for fuel. When I found the left bank was out of time, I thought I had found my problem, but I guess not. I guess I need to step back and take a breath.

[Patrick]

I guess I should rephrase the question. If the timing is off by a tooth when adjusting the valves, is there a chance cerain valves are being held open when their particular cam lobe is at the top of its travel, since the lash was set when it wasnt at the top?

The answer should be no, but, then it depends on just how the valves were adjusted. If they were adjusted on or near TDC on compression stroke then the answer is no. If they were adjusted in any other manner than that then the answer could be yes.

If compression readings are 'all over the place' then I'd like to know what that means.

If sounds as though you now may have more than one problem. And I'm thinking your problem is more than likely the carburetors.

I think I'd recommend starting over. Recheck the timing marks and then the valve lash. Check the compression. Then look into the carbs again. Once a problem is found just stop and fix it and see where you stand.

[Ricky-D]

Compression test should be performed with the throttle held full open.

***

[longrider]

I changed belts on a buddy's valk that was one tooth from the factory.  Bike ran the same before and after.  Readjust the valves on the affected side. 

I think you have a fuel delivery problem.  Did you check operation of the petcock when the tank was off?  Should be done each time.  If you have no kinks in the fuel line then check to see if you are losing vacuum through  the petcock.  Pull a vacuum on it and see if it holds. 

Since new jets can be had for a very reasonable price I always replace them with new if I need to go into the carbs.

[WintrSol]

It is running absolutely terrible. I have compression readings all over the place, the ground straps on some of the sparkplugs are white in appearance. And it sounds as if its lugging, lots of noise from the motor. I recently (two days ago) had the carbs off and checked all the jets, they all look fine. The float bowls are getting fuel, yet it seems to be starving for fuel. When I found the left bank was out of time, I thought I had found my problem, but I guess not. I guess I need to step back and take a breath.

Very lean, if the spark plugs are that white. The float levels could be off, or the passages through the jets partially blocked; it could be the fuel supply lines themselves, depending on which plugs show lean. Or, the O-rings on the intake tubes could be failing on those cylinders.

I'd like to know what 'compression readings all over the place' means; various readings on the same cylinder, or a pattern of high/low readings from one to another, but consistently so? A list of readings on each cylinder could help.

[Romeo]

Ok, i will do the compression check again and record the results. What I saw previously was some cylinders low and some cylinders higher. From a low of 80 psi on a couple to a high of 150 on a couple others. Is it true that the compression should be checked with the throttle wide open. I just received a serpt of new intake runner o rings, so i will be replacing those. I can check the compression with the runners off, so that will insure, plenty of air to compress.

[WintrSol]

While intake runners off will give the highest cold numbers, a compression test is usually done with the engine warm, and the throttle locked wide open, to get the best results. That ensures that the various parts, like pistons and rings, have expanded to normal size, and lubrication is there to seal the rings.

[Romeo]

Ok, here are the numbers with intake runners out and a cold engine.
1. 170psi
2. 165psi
3. 165psi
4. 150psi
5. 170psi
6. 170psi
After checkeing compression Installed new orings on the runners and installed them and took it for a ride.  It ran much stronger but still not as smoothly as it normally does.
Cylinder  #4 has me concerned. While at inzane it was the cylinder giving us the most problems.
Next I will redo the compression test with a warm engine and wide open throttle.

[Patrick]

As long as the valve clearances are now correct, I wouldn't worry about the engine condition.

Try to make sure all cylinders are now working and if they are I'd recommend a sync.

[Romeo]

Ok, i went back to the beginning on this issue and started by checking compression. All cylinders are within a couple psi of eachother. 170psi.
I replaced all the intake runner o rings with new. I did a digital carb sync. All at 190. I had to do quite a bit of adjusting to get them there.
Rebuilt the petcock and replaced the fuel screen.
She seems to idle decently, but i still get some slight popping when revving 2500 to 3000 rpm.
Throttle response seems normal. The engine sounds fine when just sitting there revving it.
When I ride it, it sounds and runs terrible, its sounds as if I am in 5 th gear at 20 mph, or worse.
The noise is there on acceleration as well a decel. I am beginning to wonder if something is coming apart inside, it just puzzles me why I dont hear it in neutral.

[Paladin528]

What EXACTLY are you experiencing?  Noise?  loss of power? both?  At what RPM and what load?
I doubt the valves are your issue as they are pretty rock solid.  One tooth on a cam wont make a drastic difference.
Fuel delivery issues can cause all sorts of noise and drivability issues. 

[WintrSol]

Fuel delivery issues can cause all sorts of noise and drivability issues. 

As will electrical issues, as in: poor battery connections, especially to chassis/engine ground. The electrical load from the ignition increases under load, and, if the spark is weak, it could rev find in neutral, but fail badly in gear. Check the ground lead from the battery at the chassis, clean with DeOxit, and also check the grounds at the coils.

[Romeo]

Fuel delivery issues can cause all sorts of noise and drivability issues. 

As will electrical issues, as in: poor battery connections, especially to chassis/engine ground. The electrical load from the ignition increases under load, and, if the spark is weak, it could rev find in neutral, but fail badly in gear. Check the ground lead from the battery at the chassis, clean with DeOxit, and also check the grounds at the coils.

if I had electrical issues, shouldnt the plugs look fouled? If anything they appear to look like the bike is running lean. Just asking guys. I don't want to discount anything at this point.

[Skinhead]

I took Romeo's bike for a short ride around the block this evening and the bike runs fine at idle.  When in gear and moving (I probably never went over 35 mph) you can hear and feel what sounds like a rotating component grinding, it is worse on decell and light load.  It sounds like it may be coming from the rear of the engine.  I didn't reread all of this post, but it has been a on going problem and the first time I heard it, it didn't sound that bad, now it sounds real bad.  Acceleration and performance seem good. 

To my knowledge, Gary has replaced the U-joint with one I gave him that had 18,000 miles on it, but was tight,  wheel bearings in front (not sure on the back).  He just recently had the output shaft bearing replaced, no joy.  The old bearing had some roughness to it but wasn't toast by any means.  I believe the bike has about 120,000 miles on it.  Oh yeah, and it has a shitty loose clutch lever!  (but that's not the problem)

What does a bad oil pump chain sound like? or is it the water pump that is chain driven?

Hey Gary, a thought just hit me, did you ever remove the alternator to check the drive condition, or possibly leave your watch in there when you reinstalled it?  The sounds I heard could be coming from that area.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I took Romeo's bike for a short ride around the block this evening and the bike runs fine at idle.  When in gear and moving (I probably never went over 35 mph) you can hear and feel what sounds like a rotating component grinding, it is worse on decell and light load.  It sounds like it may be coming from the rear of the engine.  I didn't reread all of this post, but it has been a on going problem and the first time I heard it, it didn't sound that bad, now it sounds real bad.  Acceleration and performance seem good. 

To my knowledge, Gary has replaced the U-joint with one I gave him that had 18,000 miles on it, but was tight,  wheel bearings in front (not sure on the back).  He just recently had the output shaft bearing replaced, no joy.  The old bearing had some roughness to it but wasn't toast by any means.  I believe the bike has about 120,000 miles on it.  Oh yeah, and it has a shitty loose clutch lever!  (but that's not the problem)

What does a bad oil pump chain sound like? or is it the water pump that is chain driven?

Hey Gary, a thought just hit me, did you ever remove the alternator to check the drive condition, or possibly leave your watch in there when you reinstalled it?  The sounds I heard could be coming from that area.

My Alternator drive nut came loose a while back. It made noises like you are describing but it did it more at idle and less at speed.

[Romeo]

Rear bearings have been replaced as well. No signs of wear of any kind onthe driveshaft, pinion cup, etc.
All fully lubricated. I am going to check the alternator, but it seems like i would hera the problem all the time if it was the culprit.