introduction and question

[dutchy]

Ladies and gentlemen,

I registered to this forum just to post one (1) question, but to present it in perspective, I need to give the whole story.
I am Dutchy, 52 years old and guess what? from Holland.
First motorcycle I had was a CB 360 back in the 80's, but as I am 6 foot 1 inch, it was not my bike. I felt like a giant riding it.
Some years ago in the spanish (Pyrenees) camping, I helped a spanish friend with his 2 stroke 80 cc off road.
Following weekend, out of gratitude he arrives on a Goldwing and offers it to me for a test ride. I refused three times (no license),  but he insisted and I went. Total surprise, the thing rides like a bicycle. I left the camping, turn on to the mountain road, and only enjoyed. Brilliant.
Next weekend he arrives with a Virago 1100 cc. For me to try. This too rode like bicycle, no problemo.
Then he brought along his HD Electra glide 1992. Try it, no problemo. After refusing three times I gave up and rode away. Fine untill I got to the first curve, left with the abyss at my right. Expecting easy handling I did not worry, only to find out that the damn thing did not respond to any subtle commands and only obeyed when I forced it left, to follow the road. Good experience, returned it and thank you very much, no more.
After this we left for home and during the year he sent me an email telling that he had bought "the beast of the road", a Valkyrie.
Arriving next summer, the guests told me that he could be heard coming from the far side of the village. When he finally arrived, a was blown away by the beauty of this bike. Perfect as perfect comes.
"Try it", was the first he said. I refused, but of course, gave in. I could not imagine that there ever was a better bike then this.
6 carbs., 6 open exhausts, absolute dream, not to mention the appearance.
I made several short trips on it, some with my kids.
My oldest asked me to open throttle in the middle of a tunnel, clutch disengaged. Roar of a lion.
Next March (last year) I decided to get my license, because I knew going to Spain I would end up riding again.
As getting a drivers license (Car or Bike) is ridiculously difficult in Holland, I had littlle hope of succeeding, but, not in the least to my own surprise, I passed all three tests. Bike handling, theory and actual driving test.
Called my friend and we met up in July in the camping, only to find out that he had brought me the Valkyrie for me to use for the entire 3 weeks holiday.
Needless to say, holiday of my life.
Meanwhile he had bought some more bikes, one of which a 2007 road king.
First he had me try the 1992 electra glide again, something I did reluctantly, not enjoying it at all. I do not feel safe on that contraption.
Last day he had me try the road king. Although a short ride, it gave me same confidence as the Valkyrie.
June this year I visited him at home for a week, to ride out together.
Free choice:
Valkyrie
Goldwing
Ultra glide 2008
2007 road king
virago

First day I wanted to renew my acquintance with the road king.
I love it, beats the Valkyrie by a long shot.
So, second day I got on the Valkyrie and it did not come close to the road king, neither did the ultra king or Goldwing, for that matter.

I needed an explanation why my opinion had changed so dramatically.
After thorough soul searching I knew it.
Just like my Transalp 1997, which I bought because I can not afford a better bike, the Valkyrie, in spite of enormous amounts of horsepowers, makes to many rev's too soon. At 55 mph in 5th gear and cruising at 70 mph, it just makes to many rpm's.

Now for the question:
Built in the USA, why did nobody notice this during the design stage especially given the long distances in the US.
The road king also with 5 speed is a dream acoustically, oozing tranquility during long rides.
Most important, is there a aftermarket kit for a 6th or 7th gear, or can the final ratio be changed.
The Transalp is easy, next sprockets and chain will be different.

Hope the story is not too long, and hope nobody is offended by my extra marital affair, but it really puzzles me.


Dutchy

[..]

The Valkyrie was called a sports cruiser.

[dutchy]

Does that forbid more gears making the cruising more comfortable?

[Jack]

The gearing has been mentioned many times on this site.  An Italian, Mario, built a transmission adapter but it was decided not to be as efficient here in the states.  Many of the other Hondas are geared in the same manner.  I see the same discussion on the other sites.  Good luck with your choice.

[Hoser]

By saying the Road King beats the Valkyrie, you surely don't mean it was faster.  My Valk cruises at 3000 rpm at 65 MPH(about 100KPH)  and will go twice that speed.  With stock exhaust, it is smooth and relaxing at 3000 rpm, I think the absence of higher gearing probably keeps folks from running a Valkyrie up to 150 mph, which may be a bit too fast.    hoser

[Hellcat]

I do not know why the gearing is not higher on a stock Valkyrie, but Honda engineers have proven themselves to be pretty smart. Maybe running at higher RPM is better for a six-cylinder bike, while for a two-cylinder Harley lower rpm might be better.

Here is a write-up of a kit for higher gearing and why it was a failure.

http://www.bigbf.com/bigbf_shop/transmission/final.htm

[Willow]

Does that forbid more gears making the cruising more comfortable?

Different strokes for different folks.  

I don't find the cruising RPM's to be uncomfortable.  Mine cruises at eighty miles per hour (133 kph?) at about 4,000 rpm.  At that rate it would redlline at around 144 mph.

I can't share your enthusiasm for the Road King (misnomer).

I suspect based upon your rather diverse assessments of the Electra Glide, Valkyrie, Gold Wing, and Road King that two or more of the bikes had tire inflation or mechanical issues.

Different strokes.

[R J]

Willow, I think he has based his thoughts & decision on the low RPM's.

Most people don't realize the 3000 to almost the redline is where the Phat Lady makes most of her torque..............

Harley's start their torque curve at a much lower RPM.

I also think that is why Mario's gears failed in the US.

[Michael K (Az.)]

I don't know about you Dutchy, but I'd like to meet your buddy with all the bikes! 

[SteveL]

...snipped because we saw it once already


Hope the story is not too long, and hope nobody is offended by my extra marital affair, but it really puzzles me.


Dutchy

Dutchy, do you live under a bridge in Holland?

[dutchy]

Stevel

I do not live under a bridge, in fact I do not think there are as many people living in entire holland under bridges as there are in Houston Tx, which I visit on a regular basis.

As for Rpm/torque/horsepower:
No discussion about the HP, I opened the Valkyrie up once to its limit in 1st and 2nd gear and it's frightening, beyond belief, not to mention the sound.
Torque, same,
However at the same rpm,s a six cylinder engine will give 3 times more firings ie frequency than a 2 cyl. There's nothing more to it than this.
And for me, that's relaxing, and I do not believe that my ears and behind are very much different from anybody else

[Michael K (Az.)]

Dutchy, I don't think Honda was planning on scaring you that much when they chose to stick that honkin chunk of engine on the Valkyrie. I'm thinkin, "Therapist! Therapist, got you some business here maybe.
I sure haven't purchased a motorcycle based on firing frequency before! Interesting concept. Hang in, hope ya get what ya want.

[Dogg]

the road king makes good power but turns less rpms because the are low end motors, making hp and torque on the low end of the rpm spectrum. unlike the flat 6 which makes it hp in the upper end of it. the exhaust sound can be hypnotizing with the right combonation, drag pipes tend to drone on for some people as do glass packs for others. matter of choice. the road king will eventually let you down since the bike, by nature wants to fall left or right in the turns as the gooseneck bearings start to wear. be weary of that. once they do, you can correct the problem as they have worn the gooseneck. good luck with your choice. PS-play with exhaust before you decide. that may make a difference

[Errandboy]

Interesting criteria you have for motorcycle selection, power pulses per mile.  Does anything else matter?  How about performance and durability?  I haven't ridden any Harleys lately, but have owned four of them over the years and have read recent reports on their power, torque, and performance.  I am currently enjoying my fourth Valkyrie as well.

Valkyries have about 40% more torque and 40% more power delivered to the rear wheel than Harleys according to Motorcycle Consumer News' testing reports.  This translates to about 110 mph top speed for the Harley, 131 for the Valkyrie.  Around 6.5 or 7 seconds zero to sixty mph for the Harley, 3.86 for the Valkyrie.  Those are not trivially different numbers.

Durability, or low wear rate, is principally related to piston speed and cooling.  Obviously, the less piston speed at a given road speed, the better.  Piston speed is related to rpm and stroke length.  Harleys may travel at a given road speed with a lower rpm, but their stroke, with only two cylinders instead of six, mean much larger cylinders and longer strokes resulting in a significantly higher piston speed for a given road speed.  This helps them to wear out faster than Valkyries.

Cooling is the other big factor in durability.  Harleys are air cooled, Valkyries are water cooled.  You can personally demonstrate the difference in cooling effectiveness between air and water by performing the following experiment:  Put on a bathing suit, the briefer the better.  Step into a room that is at an air temperature of 70 degrees farenheit.  Notice how quickly your body cools in this room.  Now jump into a swimming pool whose water temperature is 70 degrees farenheit.  Notice the difference?  (You'll probably jump right out again.)  That is the difference in cooling effectiveness between air and water.  Air cooled Harleys lose again against water cooled Valkyries.
This can translate to miles between overhauls.  I hear Valkyries often do 100,000 to 250,000 miles even 300,000 before overhauls.  Haven't heard about Harleys, but doubt if very many get to 100,000 miles or more before serious repairs.

Now, make some comparisons.  Slow that Harley down to 20 mph in top gear, then twist on the throttle and accelerate to highway cruising speed.  Then do the same with the Valkyrie, I know the Valkyrie will accelerate smoothly without lurching, haven't ridden a newer Harley, but the older ones would pitch and jerk and buck and maybe stall.  Run that Harley up to say, 90 mph and check the rear view mirrors.  Older ones became useless by 40 mph from vibration, how do the new ones do?  I have had Valkyries at 110 mph, and the mirrors seem to think the bike is still parked in the parking lot with the engine off.

Besides all that, consider the price difference between a Valkyrie and a similarly aged Harley and I have no idea why you see Harleys at every corner and few Valkyries.  Well, actually I do, no question that the Harley factory is far better at marketing and advertising than Honda is, only possible explanation.

[Ferris Leets]

Here is another possible explanation.
Did the Road King have stock pipes?  The 6 /6 exhaust makes the valk awful loud and that might be what is bothering you more than the feel of more RPMs.  The 6 is so smooth I don't think the RPMs are what is bothering you.
Also did the Road King have a tach?  Could you actually compare the difference in RPMs between the 2?  Most of the bikes I've ridden (not sport bikes) are actually close in the RPM ranges.

[Rocketman]

Stock Valkyries are very quiet machines.  Try one with the stock exhaust, and see if you like it better for cruising.

[Hoser]

Actually, used Harleys are gettin purty cheap around here. sure is a lot of them to choose from in the fall.   hoser

[Puffs Daddy]

Others have implied the following, but perhaps it bears repeating. Comparing a V-Twin designed to operate at 2000 rpm with a flat six designed to operate easily at 5000 rpm and above is a comparison between apples and coffee cups. The Valk is a unique "cruiser," unlike any other and in that sense literally "incomparable."

Some folks prefer the feel of a V-Twin. Others prefer the extraordinary smoothness of the Valkyrie flat six, achieved without the addition of add-ons like a rubber mounted engine or a counter-balancer. For me, there's no question which I prefer in a "cruiser." On the other hand, when I want to feel the heartbeat of an engine, I hop on my Moto Guzzi.

[Robert]

Its kind of like most vehicles from the US in other countries they usually go for good money kind of like a Ferrari here. Corvettes in Brittan are a prize. My son sells Harleys and most get shipped to other countries and hes doing a good business, with the global market things that were not available before are now attainable. I know quite a few that have wanted cars when they were kids and when they got older and had the money bought them even though it was 15 years later. If you like it then great enjoy but your not on the right board there are plenty of Harley boards that will embrace you and your ideas. I am viewing it as a negative that the pulses are the only thing that bothers you with all the other bikes you ride that have a higher rpm ratio to speed than the Valk. I will make one suggestion that I really don't think is necessary but maybe if you changed the exhaust you may find the Valk more to your liking,some are just to loud. Like Ferrari's that make their power at higher rpms as compared to say a Dodge Viper that makes its power below 5k rpm so it goes with our Valks that they can go higher and actually live and broader power band than the Harleys that would die a quick death if they had to maintain a higher rpm for to long. This is why they are geared differently so that they can have a longer life and have some power. I wouldn't compare a Valk to say a sport bike with a 13k red line it wouldn't live that high well that's the story with the Harley/Valk. You see here in the US we do ride far distances because our we don't have to go from one country to another to go a good distance so we need a bike that is reliable and can take enough stuff along and not break down. Both my son and son in law had Harleys and on more than one occasion I would have to have one of them ride with me because their bikes would break down. One was a year old Sportster and the other was a 91. Dont get me wrong when I go into his showroom I think maybe I should sell my Valk but thats not going to happen, I know what I have. So for the short rides ,enjoy the Harley and when you really want to do some distance then come back to this board and well teach you how to appreciate one of the best bikes ever made.

[Jack]

Bottom line:  There are a lot of riders that prefer Harleys over Hondas, Valks, etc.  It is certainly their choice.

[danholmes]

A BMW 750i Sedan rev's at ~2000 rpm @ 100 kmh. The Z3 M Coupe sports-car will be @ ~3500 rpm at that speed, but boy does it go when you want to pick it up from there. It's the sweet spot on the torque curve.
And the only Valk you've ever seen was a poseur open piped one rarely tolerated by the true aficionado's.
And yes, you've got a pretty good friend there.