Where Have All the Christians Gone?

[Jeff K]

Interesting article.




AP

Christianity is plummeting in America, while the number of non-believers is skyrocketing.

A shocking new study of Americans’ religious beliefs shows the beginnings of a major realignment in Americans’ relationship with God. The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reveals that Protestants now represent half of all Americans, down almost 20 percent in the last twenty years. In the coming months, America will become a minority Protestant nation for the first time since the pilgrims.

The number of people who claim no religious affiliation, meanwhile, has doubled since 1990 to fifteen percent, its highest point in history. Non-believers now represent the third-highest group of Americans, after Catholics and Baptists.

Other headlines:

1) The number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990, and is now 76%, the lowest percentage in American history.

2) The growth of non-believers has come largely from men. Twenty percent of men express no religious affiliation; 12% of women.

3) Young people are fleeing faith. Nearly a quarter of Americans in their 20’s profess no organized religion.

4) But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.

The implications for American society are profound. Americans’ relationship with God, which drove many of the country’s great transformations from the pilgrims to the founding fathers, the Civil War to the civil rights movement, is still intact. Eighty-two percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power.

But at the same time, the study offers yet another wake-up call for religious institutions.

First, catering to older believers is a recipe for failure; younger Americans are tuning out.

Second, Americans are interested in God, but they don’t think existing institutions are helping them draw closer to God.

Finally, Americans’ interest in religion has not always been stable. It dipped following the Revolution and again following Civil War. In both cases it rebounded because religious institutions adapted and found new ways of relating to everyday Americans.

Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions.

Or risk becoming Europe, where religion is fast becoming an afterthought.

Bruce Feiler is bestselling author of eight books, including "Walking the Bible" and "Abraham," and the host of the PBS series on "Walking the Bible."

[JimL]

Interesting article Jeff.  

As with any statistic, the devil (no pun intended) is in the details.  Item #1 says that the number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990 and is now 76%.  Is this 76% of the entire population, or 76% of those who claim to have an affiliation with an organized religion?  

I seriously doubt that it is 76% of the entire population, if it is, then that opens up a rather interesting debate as to what constitutes a "Christian".  I simply write this as a question, not to make any assertions positive or negative.  

I could write volumes on this topic, however this is certainly not the place to do it.  Simply put, religion has been the biggest single enigma I have encountered in my 52 years on this planet, one which I doubt that I will ever satisfactorily resolve.

[F-106]

Thanks for sharing jeff, I find that completely wrong however, seeing there are more Chirstian churches being built right now than any time in U.S history. 

[hubcapsc]

what constitutes a "Christian".

1Th 5:17 Pray constantly...

What does this mean?

God's not going to talk to you like he did Moses on Bill Cosby's Wonderfulness album: "PING! Noah..."
Instead, keep God in your mind, and use what you have found in the Bible that you understand how to
apply to your life as a litmus test for your actions:

Mk 10:19 Do not murder; do not commit adultery; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not defraud; honor your father and mother.

Trust the above and you are trusting Jesus...

The books after the Gospels where Paul is talking to the different Churches have explicit sections about the Christian life, husbands
and wifes, children and parents, masters and slaves (relevant if you think of head-D00ds and subordinates)...

The parts of the Bible you don't understand how to apply to your life (for example, I don't have a clue as to what
to do with the 800 year old guy who built a wooden boat the size of an aircraft carrier in his back yard, or Joshua's
longest day) I figure must have something to do with "faith"...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

I think what we are seeing is, rather than a decline in the number of people that profess Christianity...we are seeing a re-aligning of those that went to church and thought of themselves as Christians but werent really Christians in the sense, they did not have a personal relationship with Christ.  I will refer to them as "christians". 

I think many "christians" are moving away from behaviors that in the past helped them blend in and just get counted amoung the Christian majority.

If that is true, than the smaller number count actually makes sense to me.....there is work to do , no doubt

[Robert]

I cant say that if true I am surprised by the numbers. I can tell you that when I was a kid I hated church and even up till the time I was about 35. Then the Lord got a hold of me in a big way and now I look back and realized what I missed all these years, no not church ,but my relationship with Jesus. Never in my time at church when young did I ever experience the presence of the Lord and know who He is or what He will do for those He loves. Even churches today dont teach about the Spirit or how to really have a relationship with Him, and its really sad. We hear advertising every day about what good products are out there, why when we have something that keeps us at peace, helps us sleep at night, provides for our every need and heals us do we not shout it from the roof tops? I wish I could explain all Hes done for me but that is much to long to list here. As for the numbers it really doesn't take into account the increase of the population so if not many new are added to Christians then really we've lost. There are not many churches now that I would go to most to me are dead and the people who go to church for a Sunday thing I hope they will not hear the Lord say "go away I never knew you". Also the Bible also says that in the end times there will be a great falling away and even to the point that Jesus asks will there be anyone left who believes. In this day and age we are taught to look out for me and no one else and with all the government regs in schools and separation of church and state ( a real bit of bs) I am surprised the numbers aren't lower. I can also remember how good it was to say Merry Christmas and now it feels like you will be thrown in jail. Just a interesting note, preachers in Canada that teach what the Bible says about gays can be put in jail, no joke and very true. Thats also what they are trying to get passed here in good old USA. After 9/11 churches were very busy with new people coming in now its fallen back off a bit. Schools that can have teaching on Buddha and Mohammad cannot even utter the name of Jesus without a lawsuit or someone going to jail. The enemy knows that if he can get to our kids then hes got us. If you look from the 1960s forward and see the numbers on teen pregnancies plus a whole lot more you will watch the gradual decline of the US as a whole. Who knows what will happen but just ask yourself if I die today where am I going? and see what answer you get. If you dont like it try Jesus, remember the devil will always take you back.

[JimL]

If I understand the article Jeff posted, it seems to me that the author is saying that many people today are not necessarily convinced that the bible or Christianity is valid.

Point #4
But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.

I suspect that in reality the number of Christians in this country is significantly less than 76%.

[stormrider]

And as I understand the true meaning of "Christian" is to be Christ-like. If that is the true meaning then the numbers are probably a lot less. How many are willing to love his enemy and pray for those who persecute him or are willing to go two miles when asked to only go one, or give his outer garment when only asked to give his shirt? Or when someone asks to borrow that you lend? Gets pretty tough if you ask me. There seems to be a lot of churches with lots of people that associate with Christian ideology but don't make it to far on the being Chris-like list. Just my humble observation over 33 years. Me, I fall short. Thank God for forgiveness.

[SANDMAN5]

Something I've harped on before, the difference between Christians and religious people. I go to
church, have a relationship with God, have Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, and the Holy Spirit
to be my guide...when I have enough sense to listen! I do not, however, have to pay attention
to what a group of people decided would be the "official church doctrine" all over the world. Our
Pastors lift up their Bible and say "If it ain't in here, we're not teaching it". Case in point...I grew up
in a denominational church where women weren't allowed to wear pants to services, dresses only.
Now that I'm away from that, I know that's a religious hang-up. I know I'm not 'splainin' all this like
I want to, but I'm at work and have to hurry!  
 

[Hellcat]

I suspect that in reality the number of Christians in this country is significantly less than 76%.

Unbelievably, looking at several reputable sources on the net, the 75% number of people professing to be Christians is correct.

[asfltdncr]

They are all standing in line for Sarah Palin's memoirs.
The fact that she was able to rally the conservative party is the best reason I know to celebrate that Democrats are once again in control of the Whitehouse.

[fstsix]

I had to pray before this post not to give my opinion but insight from someone else. His name is Frank dear friend of mine met him speaking one night In southern VA.  For those who cant ever put in words all the miracles well this is walking miracle.I have been in many Prisons with him to help spread hope to what seemed hopeless First of all he was National VP Renegade and was picked up in Los Vegas and extradited back to Norfolk for Fed trial. When locked down in the prisons with him they would only allow good conduct inmates only to come out side to the basketball court to here franks message. About 60 would come out for 1 hour at time What you see is in a small church but his message when we were in prison was same hope. I seen 35 men drop their shoulder with tears and come forward and give their life to Jesus + 2 Prison guards. He came to speak at my church in Chesapeake and on the way out the door my Church gave me check to give to Frank wont take money he has a small handy man business. So this is a bike related topic. And if you would like to speak to Frank please email me and i will give you his home #. But remember he is not perfect just forgiven.

FBI MOST WANTED	powered by Aeva

[Jeff K]

I had to pray before this post not to give my opinion but insight from someone else. His name is Frank dear friend of mine met him speaking one night In southern VA.  For those who cant ever put in words all the miracles well this is walking miracle.I have been in many Prisons with him to help spread hope to what seemed hopeless First of all he was National VP Renegade and was picked up in Los Vegas and extradited back to Norfolk for Fed trial. When locked down in the prisons with him they would only allow good conduct inmates only to come out side to the basketball court to here franks message. About 60 would come out for 1 hour at time What you see is in a small church but his message when we were in prison was same hope. I seen 35 men drop their shoulder with tears and come forward and give their life to Jesus + 2 Prison guards. He came to speak at my church in Chesapeake and on the way out the door my Church gave me check to give to Frank wont take money he has a small handy man business. So this is a bike related topic. And if you would like to speak to Frank please email me and i will give you his home #. But remember he is not perfect just forgiven.FBI MOST WANTED

Jim Jones had a way with words too. 

[fstsix]

And to think i drank (Cool Aid )with Frank may be it is the right wingers. 

[JimL]

They are all standing in line for Sarah Palin's memoirs.
The fact that she was able to rally the conservative party is the best reason I know to celebrate that Democrats are once again in control of the Whitehouse.

The fact is Sarah did not rally the conservative party, although she did invigorate the extreme fringe (religious right) of the Republican party.  I am as conservative as anyone on this board, however when the announcement was made that Sarah was the VP choice....I felt betrayed.  Sarah did not have the qualifications necessary for the office, clearly John McCain didn't either which became obvious when he "stubbornly & selfishly" passed over 2 VP candidates which would have made the Republicans contenders in Nov 2008.  Whatever Sarah Palin lacked in experience and whatever shortcomings John McCain had (and it now appears there are many), they were still more experienced and better qualified to make the serious decisions now facing this country than a Community Organizer from one of the most corrupt cities in the US.

The Independents have already realized the mistake they made as evidenced by both the Gallup, Rasmussen and NBC News Presidential Approval polls.  The French now realize what a weak leader they are dealing with when Nicholas Sarkozy earlier this week voiced his displeasure with Obama after their press conference dealing with the Iranian Nuclear Facility.

   Obama: “We must never stop until we see the day when nuclear arms have been banished from the face of the earth.”

    Sarkozy: “We live in the real world, not the virtual world. And the real world expects us to take decisions.”

The rest of Sarkozy’s remarks were, well, remarkable:

    “President Obama dreams of a world without weapons … but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite.

    “Iran since 2005 has flouted five security council resolutions. North Korea has been defying council resolutions since 1993.

    “I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map,” he continued, referring to Israel.

    The sharp-tongued French leader even implied that Mr Obama’s resolution 1887 had used up valuable diplomatic energy.

    “If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce our own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons,” he said.

    Mr Sarkozy has previously called the US president’s disarmament crusade “naive.”


The main stream media are still trying to bury this story, however it is available through the foreign press.  I never thought I would see the day when the French President has to "smack down" a US President for being too weak on defense.  Obviously the French agree with many of us Conservatives that "dropping your pants, bending over and grabbing your ankles" is not the best approach for discouraging Iran's nuclear ambitions.

[Robert]

Thank You for posting the video of Frank I really liked that and he is right on the money. I will tell of a little story about my wife and me. I started a auto repair business because I wanted to get out of the business that I was in, and became the service manager. One of my jobs was to get the info on the owner and this lady comes in and drops off her car and I was to busy talking to her to get the info. So later I went into her car and looked in the glove compartment and all these praise and worship tapes came out. As this happened I thought to myself, awe such a pretty lady to bad shes a Jesus freak. Little did I know what was in store for me, as I look back on that day I realized that God never gave up on me, that no matter how hard the heart He loves us with a love we just cant fully understand. Today I hold Bible studies and God uses me in some pretty awesome ways. It is said that the Army is a real adventure but I can tell you its nothing compared to what accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is. Its not a walk for the faint of heart nor the ones that want to hold on to everything but Jesus. But like a little kid he changes us from Glory to Glory and as we walk with Him we shed all the things that held us down and take our joy. But He gives us things that truly fill the desires of our heart. I really feel bad for those that are lukewarm Christians not only do they not know all the great things in store for them but also loose on the relationship that Jesus wants so badly with us. He died for our sins, Why? so we could have a relationship with the Father and Him and the Holy Spirit, so we in prayer could burst through the doors of the throne room and say Daddy I want to talk to you. Not like a earthly father that is to busy but our heavenly Father thats never to busy for us. Oh the sweet debt we owe to the one that redeemed us, protects and provides for us that loves us unconditionally and doesn't turn us away but always bids come. if you dont know this kind of relationship with Jesus then I really have to ask if you are really a Christian, its not by words but action born out of love the love and debt we owe the Father. If you have to do things out of compulsion or out of duty or need then I also have to question the depth of your faith. If you wear a cross on your chest and lie, steal cheat your brother dont trust the Lord in buisness then I have to also question your faith. Jesus said who takes a lamp and puts it under a lamp stand let your light shine for all the world to see. But if that light is dim. This is what the Bible says its the greatest adventure book, history book and learning on who the Father is and how He is. OH and so much more. I bless all who read this in the name of Jesus.

[fstsix]

Thank You for posting the video of Frank I really liked that and he is right on the money. I will tell of a little story about my wife and me. I started a auto repair business because I wanted to get out of the business that I was in, and became the service manager. One of my jobs was to get the info on the owner and this lady comes in and drops off her car and I was to busy talking to her to get the info. So later I went into her car and looked in the glove compartment and all these praise and worship tapes came out. As I this happened I though to myself awe such a pretty lady to bad shes a Jesus freak. Little did I know what was in store for me, as I look back on that day I realized that God never gave up on me, that no matter how hard the heart He loves us with a love we just cant fully understand. Today I hold Bible studies and God uses me in some pretty awesome ways. It is said that the Army is a real adventure but I can tell you its nothing compared to what accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is. Its not a walk for the faint of heart nor the ones that want to hold on to everything but Jesus. But like a little kid he changes us from Glory to Glory and as we walk with Him we shed all the things that held us down and take our joy. But He gives us things that truly fill the desires of our heart. I really feel bad for those that are lukewarm Christians not only do they not know all the great things in store for them but also loose on the relationship that Jesus wants so badly with us. He died for our sins, Why? so we could have a relationship with the Father and Him and the Holy Spirit, so we in prayer could burst through the doors of the throne room and say Daddy I want to talk to you. Not like a earthly father that is to busy but our heavenly Father thats never to busy for us. Oh the sweet debt we owe to the one that redeemed us, protects and provides for us that loves us unconditionally and doesn't turn us away but always bids come. if you dont know this kind of relationship with Jesus then I really have to ask if you are really a Christian, its not by words but action born out of love the love and debt we owe the Father. If you have to do things out of compulsion or out of duty or need then I also have to question the depth of your faith. If you wear a cross on your chest and lie, steal cheat your brother dont trust the Lord in buisness then I have to also question your faith. Jesus said who takes a lamp and puts it under a lamp stand let your light shine for all the world to see. But if that light is dim. This is what the Bible says its the greatest adventure book, history book and learning on who the Father is and how He is. OH and so much more. I bless all who read this in the name of Jesus.

  Well said.

[Crazyhorse]

I grew up in Alabama son of a cotten mill worker. My family were poor but never took a handout from the goverment (not that I don't believe in helping people who need help). I was a rebel child and ran off and join the Army at 15 years of age. After boot camp and AIT I got orders for Vietnam I was 16. In Vietnam I fell into drugs. After ten and half months in country the Army discovered I was under age and discharged me. I was on my own with a big drug problem. At 18 I got drug free long enough to join the US Marines. Things went well for a while until I went back to doing drugs. One night while high on drugs me and some other guys broke into a place, were later caught and sent to prison. I was 19 and convited under the youth correction act and later paroled back to the Marines to finish my tour of duty. Months after going back to the Corps I'm back on drugs. You might be saying idiot and I would agree but this shows the power of sin over ones life. I had tried time and time again to break away from the addiction without success. Then in July 1975 at the age of 21 I gave my life to God through faith in Jesus Christ from that moment until this day I have never used illegal drugs. I completed my tour of duty with the Corps went to College and got a degree and have injoyed life to it fullness for 35 years. Those of you who don't believe may write this off as a fluke but I know it is the love and power of God.

Mac

PS.   I have been riding motorcycles for 45 years. Now it is motorcycle related.

[JimL]

I grew up in Alabama son of a cotten mill worker. My family were poor but never took a handout from the goverment (not that I don't believe in helping people who need help). I was a rebel child and ran off and join the Army at 15 years of age. After boot camp and AIT I got orders for Vietnam I was 16. In Vietnam I fell into drugs. After ten and half months in country the Army discovered I was under age and discharged me. I was on my own with a big drug problem. At 18 I got drug free long enough to join the US Marines. Things went well for a while until I went back to doing drugs. One night while high on drugs me and some other guys broke into a place, were later caught and sent to prison. I was 19 and convited under the youth correction act and later paroled back to the Marines to finish my tour of duty. Months after going back to the Corps I'm back on drugs. You might be saying idiot and I would agree but this shows the power of sin over ones life. I had tried time and time again to break away from the addiction without success. Then in July 1975 at the age of 21 I gave my life to God through faith in Jesus Christ from that moment until this day I have never used illegal drugs. I completed my tour of duty with the Corps went to College and got a degree and have injoyed life to it fullness for 35 years. Those of you who don't believe may write this off as a fluke but I know it is the love of God.

Mac

This is a great testimonial Mac...thanks for sharing.

Jim

[Jeff K]

I grew up in Alabama son of a cotten mill worker. My family were poor but never took a handout from the goverment (not that I don't believe in helping people who need help). I was a rebel child and ran off and join the Army at 15 years of age. After boot camp and AIT I got orders for Vietnam I was 16. In Vietnam I fell into drugs. After ten and half months in country the Army discovered I was under age and discharged me. I was on my own with a big drug problem. At 18 I got drug free long enough to join the US Marines. Things went well for a while until I went back to doing drugs. One night while high on drugs me and some other guys broke into a place, were later caught and sent to prison. I was 19 and convited under the youth correction act and later paroled back to the Marines to finish my tour of duty. Months after going back to the Corps I'm back on drugs. You might be saying idiot and I would agree but this shows the power of sin over ones life. I had tried time and time again to break away from the addiction without success. Then in July 1975 at the age of 21 I gave my life to God through faith in Jesus Christ from that moment until this day I have never used illegal drugs. I completed my tour of duty with the Corps went to College and got a degree and have injoyed life to it fullness for 35 years. Those of you who don't believe may write this off as a fluke but I know it is the love of God.

Mac

You just redirected your addiction. Now you are addicted to God. Granted that is a much safer addiction, but an addiction none the less.
A friend of mine went through rehab, he was being pushed toward religion as a "safe" addiction. People with addictive personalities need an addiction to something, anything.

http://www.fairnessproject.org/Religious_Addiction.html



  

[Crazyhorse]

Jeff K you call it an addiction I call it Salvation. But you are right about one thing it is safe. The Lord is my Rock (Psalm 40:1-3).

Mac

[Robert]

Mac awesome testimony the day my wife accepted the Lord she was delivered from cigarette addiction not quite as bad but never the less its showing what the Lord does in your life. I have so many stories of how people came to the Lord and what happened to them its so amazing.

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives? If you consider a relationship a addiction then it could apply to any relationship. I would agree with one point if you are into religion for religion then yes you are substituting one for another but if you Love the Lord talk with Him and hear His voice then you are in a relationship. People for lack of knowing what else to say, say you are religious not understanding that its not religion or dogma that draws you but the Love of Christ. That reading the Bible is like talking to your best friend as you share stories and laugh and enjoy the time together. I have known allot of people who could quote the Bible up and down and used it to admonish but couldn't tell you who God really is and what He wants. Kind of like the devil, he knows scripture too and uses it against those that are Christians and accuses and condemns them.Your perspective on what Christian are and why is coming from lack of knowledge about what it really means to be a Christian. Really what your post started with. If you really want to speak about something you should really know what your talking about. To understand others, I went and learned about the Koran I was really interested to learn and see what these people were talking about and how it related to the Bible or just life. To answer questions I had and see who this god is that they worship. Not to mention when I speak about the Koran and Muslims I can do it from a first hand knowledge. I think that if you did this with Jesus and the Bible you may find a much different perspective than the one you have now.

[Jeff K]

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives?

"we all" do not have addictions. My wife has somewhat of an addictive personality, but I don't. I had no problem quitting smoking, it was hard for her.
It's not something that affects everyone.

[asfltdncr]

They are all standing in line for Sarah Palin's memoirs.
The fact that she was able to rally the conservative party is the best reason I know to celebrate that Democrats are once again in control of the Whitehouse.

The fact is Sarah did not rally the conservative party, although she did invigorate the extreme fringe (religious right) of the Republican party.  I am as conservative as anyone on this board, however when the announcement was made that Sarah was the VP choice....I felt betrayed.  Sarah did not have the qualifications necessary for the office, clearly John McCain didn't either which became obvious when he "stubbornly & selfishly" passed over 2 VP candidates which would have made the Republicans contenders in Nov 2008.  Whatever Sarah Palin lacked in experience and whatever shortcomings John McCain had (and it now appears there are many), they were still more experienced and better qualified to make the serious decisions now facing this country than a Community Organizer from one of the most corrupt cities in the US.

The Independents have already realized the mistake they made as evidenced by both the Gallup, Rasmussen and NBC News Presidential Approval polls.  The French now realize what a weak leader they are dealing with when Nicholas Sarkozy earlier this week voiced his displeasure with Obama after their press conference dealing with the Iranian Nuclear Facility.

   Obama: “We must never stop until we see the day when nuclear arms have been banished from the face of the earth.”

    Sarkozy: “We live in the real world, not the virtual world. And the real world expects us to take decisions.”

The rest of Sarkozy’s remarks were, well, remarkable:

    “President Obama dreams of a world without weapons … but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite.

    “Iran since 2005 has flouted five security council resolutions. North Korea has been defying council resolutions since 1993.

    “I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map,” he continued, referring to Israel.

    The sharp-tongued French leader even implied that Mr Obama’s resolution 1887 had used up valuable diplomatic energy.

    “If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce our own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons,” he said.

    Mr Sarkozy has previously called the US president’s disarmament crusade “naive.”


The main stream media are still trying to bury this story, however it is available through the foreign press.  I never thought I would see the day when the French President has to "smack down" a US President for being too weak on defense.  Obviously the French agree with many of us Conservatives that "dropping your pants, bending over and grabbing your ankles" is not the best approach for discouraging Iran's nuclear ambitions.

[asfltdncr]

If the fringe is nearly 50% of the popular vote.Limbaugh or Beck might be fringe but the Republican Party loves Sarah and think that she will be a good bet for 2012.I like that the conservatives are now embracing the French when such a short time ago, they wanted French Fries called something else because they did not agree with W.[quote author=JimL link=topic=8928.msg70476#msg70476 date=1254315530]

They are all standing in line for Sarah Palin's memoirs.
The fact that she was able to rally the conservative party is the best reason I know to celebrate that Democrats are once again in control of the Whitehouse.

The fact is Sarah did not rally the conservative party, although she did invigorate the extreme fringe (religious right) of the Republican party.  I am as conservative as anyone on this board, however when the announcement was made that Sarah was the VP choice....I felt betrayed.  Sarah did not have the qualifications necessary for the office, clearly John McCain didn't either which became obvious when he "stubbornly & selfishly" passed over 2 VP candidates which would have made the Republicans contenders in Nov 2008.  Whatever Sarah Palin lacked in experience and whatever shortcomings John McCain had (and it now appears there are many), they were still more experienced and better qualified to make the serious decisions now facing this country than a Community Organizer from one of the most corrupt cities in the US.

The Independents have already realized the mistake they made as evidenced by both the Gallup, Rasmussen and NBC News Presidential Approval polls.  The French now realize what a weak leader they are dealing with when Nicholas Sarkozy earlier this week voiced his displeasure with Obama after their press conference dealing with the Iranian Nuclear Facility.

   Obama: “We must never stop until we see the day when nuclear arms have been banished from the face of the earth.”

    Sarkozy: “We live in the real world, not the virtual world. And the real world expects us to take decisions.”

The rest of Sarkozy’s remarks were, well, remarkable:

    “President Obama dreams of a world without weapons … but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite.

    “Iran since 2005 has flouted five security council resolutions. North Korea has been defying council resolutions since 1993.

    “I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map,” he continued, referring to Israel.

    The sharp-tongued French leader even implied that Mr Obama’s resolution 1887 had used up valuable diplomatic energy.

    “If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce our own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons,” he said.

    Mr Sarkozy has previously called the US president’s disarmament crusade “naive.”


The main stream media are still trying to bury this story, however it is available through the foreign press.  I never thought I would see the day when the French President has to "smack down" a US President for being too weak on defense.  Obviously the French agree with many of us Conservatives that "dropping your pants, bending over and grabbing your ankles" is not the best approach for discouraging Iran's nuclear ambitions.

[/quote]

[JimL]

If the fringe is nearly 50% of the popular vote.Limbaugh or Beck might be fringe but the Republican Party loves Sarah and think that she will be a good bet for 2012.I like that the conservatives are now embracing the French when such a short time ago, they wanted French Fries called something else because they did not agree with W.

"but the Republican Party loves Sarah and think that she will be a good bet for 2012"

Following are the results of a Straw Poll conducted at the annual Values Voter Summit held in Washington DC on 19 September (11 days ago).  

Huckabee: 28% (~167)*
Romney: 12% (74)
Pawlenty: 12% (73)
Palin: 12% (72)
Pence: 12% (71)
*Raw votes in parentheses (via Jonathan Martin)

I think most EDUCATED folks would conclude that the Republican base doesn't hold Sarah in very high regard...however don't let empirical data stand in the way of your own conclusions.  Just so that you don't think this data comes from a biased right wing source (such as Fox News), it can be validated at the Huffingtonpost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/19/huckabee-beats-palin-for-_n_292412.html

As far as embracing the French, I can assure you that if Jaques Chirac were still in office he would have been a millisecond behind Obama in dropping his pants and grabbing his ankles...and in this case you can bet that conservatives WOULD NOT be embracing him. Unlike Chirac, Sarkozy has some integrity and some balls.

[Dave Ritsema]

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives?

"we all" do not have addictions. My wife has somewhat of an addictive personality, but I don't. I had no problem quitting smoking, it was hard for her.
It's not something that affects everyone.

Jeff K...Are you kidding me? You don't have any addictions?
Mr. Blown, fuel injected Valkyrie.....I think you MAY have at least ONE addiction and it may involve going fast! 

[Jeff K]

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives?

"we all" do not have addictions. My wife has somewhat of an addictive personality, but I don't. I had no problem quitting smoking, it was hard for her.
It's not something that affects everyone.

Jeff K...Are you kidding me? You don't have any addictions?
Mr. Blown, fuel injected Valkyrie.....I think you MAY have at least ONE addiction and it may involve going fast! 

Joanne is laughing. I can't stay focused on anything long enough to be considered an addiction. 
My ADD
AND in my old age the throttle doesn't come on quite as hard as it used to. But I'm working on it.

Joanne Said "tell him I said Hi!"
 

[¿spoom]

I think some of the decline may be a higher % of the population has grown up in a time where entire churches has faced bankruptcy paying off sex related court judgments against clergy, seen one too many Jim Baker types, etc. and have walked away from organized religion, but not necessarily God.

[Dave Ritsema]

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives?

"we all" do not have addictions. My wife has somewhat of an addictive personality, but I don't. I had no problem quitting smoking, it was hard for her.
It's not something that affects everyone.

Jeff K...Are you kidding me? You don't have any addictions?
Mr. Blown, fuel injected Valkyrie.....I think you MAY have at least ONE addiction and it may involve going fast! 

Joanne is laughing. I can't stay focused on anything long enough to be considered an addiction. 
My ADD
AND in my old age the throttle doesn't come on quite as hard as it used to. But I'm working on it.

Joanne Said "tell him I said Hi!"
 

LOL Please give her my best, been too long since I have seen you guys.

[fstsix]

Mac awesome testimony the day my wife accepted the Lord she was delivered from cigarette addiction not quite as bad but never the less its showing what the Lord does in your life. I have so many stories of how people came to the Lord and what happened to them its so amazing.

As for Jeff
     I guess if a relationship with Jesus is substituting one addiction for another then we are all addicted to our wives? If you consider a relationship a addiction then it could apply to any relationship. I would agree with one point if you are into religion for religion then yes you are substituting one for another but if you Love the Lord talk with Him and hear His voice then you are in a relationship. People for lack of knowing what else to say, say you are religious not understanding that its not religion or dogma that draws you but the Love of Christ. That reading the Bible is like talking to your best friend as you share stories and laugh and enjoy the time together. I have known allot of people who could quote the Bible up and down and used it to admonish but couldn't tell you who God really is and what He wants. Kind of like the devil, he knows scripture too and uses it against those that are Christians and accuses and condemns them.Your perspective on what Christian are and why is coming from lack of knowledge about what it really means to be a Christian. Really what your post started with. If you really want to speak about something you should really know what your talking about. To understand others, I went and learned about the Koran I was really interested to learn and see what these people were talking about and how it related to the Bible or just life. To answer questions I had and see who this god is that they worship. Not to mention when I speak about the Koran and Muslims I can do it from a first hand knowledge. I think that if you did this with Jesus and the Bible you may find a much different perspective than the one you have now.

As for Jeff ? Thank You Jeff . 847 reads.

[Jeff K]

As for Jeff ? Thank You Jeff . 847 reads.

891 views
Views and reads are two different things.

[fstsix]

As for Jeff ? Thank You Jeff . 847 reads.

891 views
Views and reads are two different things.