centerstand

[csj]

I was reading on the General board that Kingbee and the missus
had an accident on their valk, sorry to hear it, of course.

A few members stated that the Rivco centerstand was the cause.
They stated that they took theirs off soon after first trial.

The PO put a Rivco on my valk ( had her 5 years now) not one
problem with the Rivco yet. When dudes say they're accessory is
a problem, I get worried.

I'm having trouble seeing how the stand can get out/down far enough
to 'high-side' the bike.  

I just went darkside, that is a true problem if you're not
paying attention, but you can actively/consciously compensate
for the tires' drawbacks.

There's nothing you can do if a centerstand can make you high-side.
 Comments please.

[DFragn]

Correction the Mrs. was home and no where near the accident.

It's the centerstand deployment arm that can contact the pavement. It should be adjusted so it's just off the exhaust pipe to keep it from vibrating. I use a rag when I take it up because the rubber bumper compresses enough that the arm will bounce off the exhaust when taking the bike down [don't forget to pull the rag when done]. It takes a very heavy lean to contact it. If you don't ride like that it's not a huge worry. If you do pavement irregularities can catch it. I've got a little flat spot on mine. I take the lefts a little easier then the rights. I know what my bikes limits are. But, I can't predict pavement surfaces or cambers on unfamiliar roads.

[csj]

I think, even with the bike tire on, I could never have leaned far enough
to get the 'deployment arm' to touch anything, even on humpy pavement.

It would have to be a real wild bounce of the centerstand to catch something
and make the bike lose control.

I don't lean as far now that the CT is on, so guess I'll never have the
problem. I find the car tire to be a lot more of a potential problem,
but I've completely conquered the odd-ball handling, starting to
learn to enjoy the challenge of controlling it, using it to full effect.

Thanks for the explanation of the Rivco, can relax now.

[Black Dog]

I've had the CS on my '97 Standard for years, and it's never touched the pavement in a turn.  If installed correctly, like DFragn says, it should just clear the underside of the exhaust, and under normal riding conditions and lean, will not be a problem. 

If it is still a concern, have a few friends help you lean the bike over to the left...  Look to see how far you will need to lean the bike before it's even close. 

I know there are a few in the club, Smokin' Joe for one, that can and do scrub the pegs on a regular basis.  Joe hates the Rivco CS, and has said that often.  I'd say Joe is not the normal Valk pilot, but the exception.  If you ride yer Valk, like a Crotch Rocket, you may have an issue.  If you back off, when you scrape a foot peg, you should be fine.

Again, proper install is the key.  I've seen some that have the rubber bumper/stopper adjusted way too low, and the stand hangs too low as a result.

YMMV, and just my .02.

Black Dog

[Madmike]

It takes a hard left side lean to get over far enough to touch down but it can definitely be done.  Under most conditions you likely won't touch it but trouble is if you are ever in a situation where you go hard on the left side the center stand will be the first thing to touch and when it does it gets ugly fast.

Don't know in my specific case if I would have had a wreck anyways but the center stand did definitely contribute to the mayhem.

[DFragn]

I think, even with the bike tire on, I could never have leaned far enough
to get the 'deployment arm' to touch anything, even on humpy pavement.

It would have to be a real wild bounce of the centerstand to catch something
and make the bike lose control.

That's not entirely the case. The Valk can safely lean far enough to touch the deployment arm on perfect pavement with a smooth consistent plane/camber, even if it's adjusted to contacting the exhaust can. I've done it with both an MC tire and a 205/60 CT.
I believe the CT may actually provide a little lift over an MC tire as it kind of comes up on it's side tread when leaned over providing a slight lift at the rear.

In fact, the Valk can be riden and leaned far enough to actually wear down the engine guards to the core filler. This was proven several years ['03] ago by one of our members.

It was done at Keith Code Superbike "& Valk" school.

I should add that although I'm an avid CT fan I wouldn't try dragging the engine guard with anything but an MC tire.

This is not the result of a crash. He slowly kept increasing his lean angle at Kieth Code's track.

[csj]

Wo, look at that.

It looks like that guy's bike fell over at speed, and dragged on that
engine guard for 50 feet.

I heard you, it was because of leaning way over, too far.

To my knowledge, I've never dragged any low-hanging component on
my valk. Just too careful, or wimpy as the case may be.

Sometimes I notice that on a harsh bump, I'm sure I hear the Rivco
give a bounce and it whacks into the bottom of the bike.
After hearing all this material, maybe I should find a way to secure the
centerstand in place until I need it.

[98valk]

Wo, look at that.

It looks like that guy's bike fell over at speed, and dragged on that
engine guard for 50 feet.

I heard you, it was because of leaning way over, too far.

To my knowledge, I've never dragged any low-hanging component on
my valk. Just too careful, or wimpy as the case may be.

Sometimes I notice that on a harsh bump, I'm sure I hear the Rivco
give a bounce and it whacks into the bottom of the bike.
After hearing all this material, maybe I should find a way to secure the
centerstand in place until I need it.

r shocks bottoming out?  adjust up a notch.

[98valk]

I think, even with the bike tire on, I could never have leaned far enough
to get the 'deployment arm' to touch anything, even on humpy pavement.

It would have to be a real wild bounce of the centerstand to catch something
and make the bike lose control.

That's not entirely the case. The Valk can safely lean far enough to touch the deployment arm on perfect pavement with a smooth consistent plane/camber, even if it's adjusted to contacting the exhaust can. I've done it with both an MC tire and a 205/60 CT.
I believe the CT may actually provide a little lift over an MC tire as it kind of comes up on it's side tread when leaned over providing a slight lift at the rear.

In fact, the Valk can be riden and leaned far enough to actually wear down the engine guards to the core filler. This was proven several years ['03] ago by one of our members.

It was done at Keith Code Superbike "& Valk" school.

I should add that although I'm an avid CT fan I wouldn't try dragging the engine guard with anything but an MC tire.

This is not the result of a crash. He slowly kept increasing his lean angle at Kieth Code's track.

I don't know what part of the CS is being talked about here. On mine the part u put your foot on is above the saddle bag crash bar and just below the passenger foot peg. Or is the curved part that is clearing the exhaust pipe the issue?
thanks

[BlueValk]

Wo, look at that.

It looks like that guy's bike fell over at speed, and dragged on that
engine guard for 50 feet.

I heard you, it was because of leaning way over, too far.

To my knowledge, I've never dragged any low-hanging component on
my valk. Just too careful, or wimpy as the case may be.

Sometimes I notice that on a harsh bump, I'm sure I hear the Rivco
give a bounce and it whacks into the bottom of the bike.
After hearing all this material, maybe I should find a way to secure the
centerstand in place until I need it.

csj,
My centerstand used to bounce on hard bumps too, for a while.  I got the new replacement spring which is stronger and it stopped that.

BlueValk

[Chrisj CMA]

I highly recommend, regardless of your normal riding habits that you make sure the driver peg is the first thing to make contact in a heavy lean.  I have two reasons for saying this:

One...the driver peg is designed to make a soft forgiving contact and "give" (hinge) so it wont have as much chance to upset you when it does hit

Two...A very frequent cause of something other than the driver peg being the first thing to hit is improper suspension.  If the suspension on a motorcycle is not set up within a reasonable margin of "correct" for that bike and load, then that motorcycle is not as safe as it should be and may not act like you want it to in certain crucial situations, especially if you have to turn/lean real sharp suddenly.

JMHO

[Chillerman]

I have a Rivco centerstand and have scraped the driver peg without touching the arm on the stand.  I know a lot of people including Smokinjoe don't like them and believe them to be dangerous.  I would only say to each his own.  One thing about Joe's situation, I believe the aftermarket exhaust and the improperly adjusted stand contributed to his issues.  Here you can see the stand is at least an inch below the pipes.  With stock pipes and proper adjustment the stand is much higher.

[DFragn]

I have a Rivco centerstand and have scraped the driver peg without touching the arm on the stand.  I know a lot of people including Smokinjoe don't like them and believe them to be dangerous.  I would only say to each his own.  One thing about Joe's situation, I believe the aftermarket exhaust and the improperly adjusted stand contributed to his issues.  Here you can see the stand is at least an inch below the pipes.  With stock pipes and proper adjustment the stand is much higher.

I agree and I think he was limited in maximum C-stand height position by what appears to be rigid [other than flipping up] Cobra passenger boards not allowing proper clearance height. That, pictured, C-stand is much too low to be safe!

I have Kuryakyn passenger floor boards that would have created the same problem for me, but I also added the Rivco adjustable passenger floor board mount.
It's a 6 position adjustable mount of CNC billet. In it's uppermost position it hits the saddle bag and in it's lowest it causes the board to push the Rivco C-stand down. That's not a conflict by Rivco as there adj. mount came with crappy shorter Emgo boards and cleared their C-stand arm & saddle bags.  I modified a set of Kury's that are a little longer and just barely catch the C-stand foot bar.

So a designed 6 position mount is now a 4 position on my bike. But 4 is enough for my passengers needs.

Note: You can see in the picture that my C-stand is adjusted practically to the point of contact to my exhaust pipe. Another 64th and it's vibrating on the pipe. I have to use a towel when I take it off the stand to prevent it from compressing the rubber bumper and slamming the pipe. Not visible is the scuffing on the underside where it curves under the pipe which happened at the lowest pictured position. It was light contact, not enough to dangerously unload my rear suspension. But, enough to let me know just how far maximum lean is on the left. I have Kury rider pegs and they contact the pavement a little later then OEM rider pegs and those are ground down pretty good!

Point being, my elevated Kury rider pegs touch later then OEM, but before the C-stand. So in my setup scenario my left rider peg contacts before the C-stand on a hard lean making me aware that the rigid C-stand is not far behind with potential trouble.

If you ride really hard you can know your max limits, but you can't know a slight pavement elevation that could catch the C-stand arm and take you down hard. It doesn't take much. Simply know your bike as it's setup or as stock. Not much difference in my book to be safe.

If the C-stand is adjusted slightly lower then mine is it seems it can contact before the OEM rider pegs do. That requires a BIG warning to you all with that setup. Get that C-stand adjusted all the way up. Buy yourself a little extra lean room for emergency maneuvers. And if you don't know your setups limits then don't ride as if you do.

As mentioned above. This should be a none issue for many here with the Rivco C-stand. But at close to contact you don't have any room left for rider error in judging speed/lean angle if additional emergency compensation is required.  

And as mentioned a few times.
Make sure you suspension is setup properly. I know that many riders on all types of bikes are set way too soft. Most riders pay little attention to suspension unless they rattle there vertebrae on a big impact.

[DFragn]

It looks like that guy's bike fell over at speed, and dragged on that
engine guard for 50 feet.

I know you know this. This is for those that don't know how much grinding that truly is.

50' won't do that much damage. That's an entire day of dragging it. Miles perhaps...

[MP]

Do what you want with the CS. 
I was at Walt's accident.  I saw the big divet in the pavement the CS made, that then caught and flipped him ass over tea kettle high siding.  No mark on the foot peg, big mark on the CS where it caught.  No CS for me!

Did it "cause" the accident?  No.  But I believe Walt would have just slid out, and lowsided, except the CS caught, and flipped him, making the accident MUCH worse than it would have been.

MP

[DFragn]

Do what you want with the CS.  
I was at Walt's accident.  I saw the big divet in the pavement the CS made, that then caught and flipped him ass over tea kettle high siding.  No mark on the foot peg, big mark on the CS where it caught.  No CS for me!

Did it "cause" the accident?  No.  But I believe Walt would have just slid out, and lowsided, except the CS caught, and flipped him, making the accident MUCH worse than it would have been.

MP

The last thing I want is to argue about this as Walt & Laurie are close friends of mine for over 11 years now. And I'm thankful you were there to lend a hand.

But, how can you be sure it wasn't the curvature of the CS deployment arm that low sided him first? And how can you rule out it wasn't the foot peg of the CS arm that carved out the asphalt once the bike was down then highsided him?
I'll bet the knurled CS footpeg was covered in asphalt after the bike rolled beyond the curvature of the CS arm, unless it was knocked free on impact when the bike finally stopped.

It doesn't make sense any other way.
Unless he ran off the edge of pavement at full apex or something on the pavement washed him out first or he dragged his accessory highway peg.
I know Walt's bike as if it were my own. Nothing else on his bike could have "caused" the crash. Everything else rigid that could contact on his bike is OEM except the bag rails and those wouldn't touch before the curvature of the CS arm.

BTW He seems to think he was at heavy lean and a small area of additional camber towards he fog line momentarily caused contact to the CS arm curvature unloading the suspension and thus himself.

Even if you were directly behind him and fixated on him [doubtful] it's still speculation [as is mine] that doesn't make enough sense.

The Rivco centerstands are not the killers some are reacting to as if they are. Not if there adjusted properly. When adjusted properly there are other signs that forewarn impending doom if unable to decrease lean. Maximum lean to OEM rider footpegs, under certain conditions, is risky. None of us can know unfamiliar roads well enough to ride so hard that these parts beyond the pegs could begin to contact.

To my knowledge on this board there has never been a reported crash were the centerstand was responsible until now.
Too many CS owners are running scared now. The simple fact is KNOW your bike and your abilities & properly install your accessories and you can continue to use the CS for the reasons you bought it.

Smokin'Joe's photo example is of a unit adjusted too low. Why because of clearance issues with his Cobra passenger floorboards, in my assessment of the pic.

Why do some of you believe Rivco would engineer an accessory that would contact pavement ahead of OE parts. Gee, I suppose they're looking to loose everything in a slurry of suits. They're a small company and such suits would be extremely damaging. Kuryakyn, on the other hand, could could probably survive such a process.

[Rocketman]

Smokin'Joe's photo example is of a unit adjusted too low. Why because of clearance issues with his Cobra passenger floorboards, in my assessment of the pic.

I have an issue with the floorboards I just put on interfering with my centerstand.  They're pushing the CS down.  I haven't decided what to do about that yet.  Any bright ideas?  Obviously the status quo is not acceptable.  I'm thinking of modifying the centerstand deployment arm, but that would lessen my leverage to put it up on the CS.  I think it's my only option, though.  If anyone else has another idea, please holler.

Mark

[Black Dog]

I have an issue with the floorboards I just put on interfering with my centerstand.

Take a look at DFragn's post a few above yours...  He mounted the floor boards on a rotating arm, and it puts them out of the way from the CS.

I'm with DFragn on this one...  Adjusted correctly, clear of other after market parts, the CS is not the cause of accidents.  It MAY dig in to the pavement, once the bike has gone down, and started a slide, but it most likely was not the cause of the drop, in the first place.

Black Dog

[MP]

DFragon:
Please read my post.  I agree.  I stated that I do not believe the CS caused the accident.

"But, how can you be sure it wasn't the curvature of the CS deployment arm that low sided him first? And how can you rule out it wasn't the foot peg of the CS arm that carved out the asphalt once the bike was down then highsided him? "

I said it looked like he was going down, lowsiding, then the CS caught and flipped him.  

"Unless he ran off the edge of pavement at full apex "

He was running off the pavement.  There was a tire skid line on the gravel shoulder for at least 30" before where the bike started to come back on the pavement, then the CS dug in. The officer, myself, and several others were looking at it as the ambulance crew was working on Walt. I believe that at that point he was lowsiding it going into the corner. Then, the CS caught and highsided him.


I repeat, I do not believe the CS "caused" the accident.  It was happening anyway.  I do believe it made it worse.
Now, would it have flipped over instead of lowsiding without the CS?
Maybe.  Who knows.  My best guess, and that is all it is, is that he would have continued the lowside slide.  But, who knows what s--t might happen in an accident.

MP

[Rocketman]

Take a look at DFragn's post a few above yours...  He mounted the floor boards on a rotating arm, and it puts them out of the way from the CS.

I saw that image.  It looks like a good setup.  DFragn, is that something you fabricated yourself, or a purchase?  If purchase, who made it?

[vanagon40]

Hey, I am not trying to sell centerstands and do not recommend that anyone put something on his or her bike that the person is not comfortable with.

Here is what I have discovered.  On my bike, the footpegs hit first by a long ways.  Next are the brackets for the highway pegs that stick out about an inch below the engine guard.  Finally, the centerstand will touch the ground (but by this time, the front wheel is off the ground.

I realize that the photos below are with no weight on the rear suspension, and I know the centerstand will hit quicker with my fat arse on the bike (and even quicker with a passenger), but I have to agree with the others that mounted correctly with normal suspension, the centerstand will hit only if the bike is being ridden by the most aggressive rider.

The mounting bracket on my highway peg is slightly lower than the engine guard:


The front wheel is off the ground in this picture:


The bike is right at a 45 degree angle when the centerstand touches the ground:


One last shot:

[DFragn]

Take a look at DFragn's post a few above yours...  He mounted the floor boards on a rotating arm, and it puts them out of the way from the CS.

I saw that image.  It looks like a good setup.  DFragn, is that something you fabricated yourself, or a purchase?  If purchase, who made it?

I called Rivco for you. They only carry those mounts now for the GL1800. They do not cross fit to the Valk. Sorry.
They are however in the process currently of fabricating a few additional Valkyrie mounts, if I understood him correctly.
The Goldwing units are slightly beveled at the back, but Rich said they could work something out to fit the Valk too.

Call Rivco if your interested and ask for Rich. Tell him Dennis from Illinois spoke with him today. If you want them it certainly sounds as though you can work it out with them. 888-801-8222
They're a bit pricey, but well worth the fit, form & function.

And they include better boards now then the "cheap Emgo" looking boards that came with them many years ago.  That's why I painstakingly modified the mounts to accept my modified Kury boards. It worked out well, but was difficult without a machine shop.

http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=151&cat=272&page=1

[Rocketman]

I called Rivco for you.

Cool.  Thanks, I plan on calling them tomorrow.

[DFragn]

I called Rivco for you.

Cool.  Thanks, I plan on calling them tomorrow.

Sure, no problem.
Let us know if you're able to work something out. 

[Rocketman]

I talked to Rivco last week.  Two things came up:
First, I have some Kuryakyn boards that I'm quite fond of, and they declined to discuss how I could make the adjustable mounts work for them.  I don't want to replace the boards, I just want to move them up.  I may have to fab something myself.
Second, I asked them about a stronger spring that I've seen mentioned, since my stand bounces on bumps.  They didn't know anything about a stronger spring, as they only have one type.  They suggested that I adjust my stand down some to increase tension on the spring.  I told them I was reluctant to move it down and decrease clearance.  They also said they could sell me a new spring if my old one is worn out, but stated it was unlikely that it was worn out.  I'm reluctant to spend 10 dollars on a spring that might not make any change.

[franco6]

WIZARD i understand had a similar accident  recently caused by the cs.

[Daniel Meyer]

WIZARD i understand had a similar accident  recently caused by the cs.

Sidestand.

[Daniel Meyer]

One last shot:

I do run a centerstand, and I do manage to drag it occasionally...keep in mind, the aggressive rider will be powering hard out of the corners and this substantially squats the rear suspension.

It's just something to be aware of.