Why? Why? Why? (not a political post)

[sugarbee]

This is NOT a political post, but the president thinks that kids should be in school for longer hours/days

Do you agree or disagree, and why?

I am working in a program now to be able to start teaching by January, for many reasons, not for the money, that's for sure.  Teaching was the goal for when I started taking classes many years ago, but I got side tracked by computers and money.  Now I want to fulfill that dream and I was counting on shorter work days because of my Lupus/fibromyalgia problems.

But one of the biggest reasons was that I would get a big part of the summer off and we could take more trips on our bikes.  Now the
pres wants to screw that up for me.  How dare he!

ok, enough about my woes on the situation, do you think that it's a good idea to put that much pressure on the kids?

[Steve K (IA)]

Seems to be a Great idea where this has been going for several years.  There is at least one school in Cedar Rapids...where I lived for 50 years until 3 years ago,  the parents as well as the kids like it.  It most definitely keeps them out of trouble in the summer.  And if you asked my 14 year old grandson, I would bet he would sign up in a heartbeat.

[Mikey]

I think the whole education system is messed up. I graduated High School in 2004, then went on to South Dakota State. Let me tell you, the public school system does a terrible job at preparing you for college. I took the "College Prep" classes in HS so I would be sure to be ready (I still suck at studying) for the rigors of college. My time at SDSU lasted only 1 year (due to many reasons) and I can't say that any of my previous education helped me out at all. Our school system sets people up for failure. You don't get let off easy, or second chances when you work in the "Real World". Kids need to learn that the world is tough, and there is such a thing as losing, there will be people that tell you "sorry, your good isn't good enough".

[Bob E.]

My niece attends a school in Dayton, OH where she goes all year.  But it is set up like college semesters, so she has more breaks throughout the year, rather than 3 months off all at one time.  They seem to like it.

However, I can see what you mean about having the time off as a teacher.  My wife is a teacher (not currently working though) and my mother-in-law is a teacher.  And those summers off are nice when it comes time to try and schedule vacations.  I've told my wife several times that if I had it to do over again, I'd have been a teacher...just for the vacation plan if nothing else.  And, at least around here, the pay scale has really caught up.  The local school districts are hiring new starting teachers at close to $39,000.  We hire new engineers at about $42,000 and they have to work all year.

[JimL]

I agree with the president that something needs to be done to enhance the productivity our educational system, however I suspect much like another critical area that needs help (healthcare), this administration will give the far left fringe too much input and the solution will be a disaster.  I can see where a slight increase in the school year could pay dividends, however several systemic changes would have to change in order for it to pay off.

(1) Better pay for good teachers
(2) Students progress through the system only if they prove they have the initiative/capability.
(3) Standardized tests would determine who goes onto a conventional high school education, those not making the grade (or not interested) would have the opportunity to enter a trade school instead of high school.

If students were focused into areas where they have demonstrated aptitude/interest, then the teachers would be able to move along at a faster pace.  When I was in college taking my second semester of Physics, I realized that the foreign students I was competing with were much further advanced than I, the reason being that foreign teachers were able to cover the material at a much faster rate.  Two Iranian students in that class who were my biggest competition had already finished Calculus 4 before they finished high school.

Since none of the measures I mention would ever come to pass because of several factors, not the least of which would be because of numerous discrimination lawsuits, it is probably best to not waste the taxpayers money with an increased school year.

[Jabba]

Parents need to parent. 

Kids that are disruptive need to be moved out of the classroom.

Kids that FAIL need to not progress thru the system.

There is my Libertarian view of education.

[Chrisj CMA]

I think shorter summers/longer school year is great if used properly....if the extra time is just wasted time then its going to be a huge problem.  Also as far as I know teachers already get paid all year long, but their salaries are calculated based on how much work they do in the school year, then divided by 52 weeks.  if they work more they should be paid more, and where will that money come from?  So if the extra time ends up NOT increasing teachers workload, then the kids will be doing busy work, like summer school and that wont cut it, not worth doing

[Jack]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/28/obamas-extended-school-year-dire-economic-effects-critics-claim/


I see some good and bad concerning longer school days and year 'round classes.  Of course, I doubt my overall opinion matters to anyone other than myself.

[Varmintmist]

Lots of countries that kick our butts in testing go to school far less than our kids do. The problem isnt where they are, its IF they are being taught while they are there. Less fluff and more meat is what is needed.

[gregc]

  Don't get me started, better pay for teachers?  The Kindergarden teacher both my sons had made in the mid $90,000 a year not including benifits.  She had a 3 1/2 hour class in the morning and a 3  1/2 class in the afternoon,  and the kids weren't in the room the whole time. Plus she had a teachers aid and a student teacher part of each day. And a class size of less then 24 kids.

[f6john]

I agree with the president that something needs to be done to enhance the productivity our educational system, however I suspect much like another critical area that needs help (healthcare), this administration will give the far left fringe too much input and the solution will be a disaster.  I can see where a slight increase in the school year could pay dividends, however several systemic changes would have to change in order for it to pay off.

(1) Better pay for good teachers
(2) Students progress through the system only if they prove they have the initiative/capability.
(3) Standardized tests would determine who goes onto a conventional high school education, those not making the grade (or not interested) would have the opportunity to enter a trade school instead of high school.

If students were focused into areas where they have demonstrated aptitude/interest, then the teachers would be able to move along at a faster pace.  When I was in college taking my second semester of Physics, I realized that the foreign students I was competing with were much further advanced than I, the reason being that foreign teachers were able to cover the material at a much faster rate.  Two Iranian students in that class who were my biggest competition had already finished Calculus 4 before they finished high school.

Since none of the measures I mention would ever come to pass because of several factors, not the least of which would be because of numerous discrimination lawsuits, it is probably best to not waste the taxpayers money with an increased school year.

How dare you to even suggest such common sense dribble!!! What a waste of time. My wife is a school teacher, I could write a book.

[Stanley Steamer]

I think the whole education system is messed up. I graduated High School in 2004, then went on to South Dakota State. Let me tell you, the public school system does a terrible job at preparing you for college. I took the "College Prep" classes in HS so I would be sure to be ready (I still suck at studying) for the rigors of college. My time at SDSU lasted only 1 year (due to many reasons) and I can't say that any of my previous education helped me out at all. Our school system sets people up for failure. You don't get let off easy, or second chances when you work in the "Real World". Kids need to learn that the world is tough, and there is such a thing as losing, there will be people that tell you "sorry, your good isn't good enough".

I know a lot of folks that started UGA with me that were in for a BIG surprize....No Mama or Daddy there to make you knuckle down....and a Professor in one of my classes came in the first day of class and said that we were already behind if we hadn't read the first 2-3 Chapters in the book....I saw a lot of "party" kids fall along the wayside.....good thing I never liked alcohol.....I still only studied as little as possible to get the grade I wanted.....I goofed off the rest of the time....

[x]

Lots of countries that kick our butts in testing go to school far less than our kids do. The problem isnt where they are, its IF they are being taught while they are there. Less fluff and more meat is what is needed.

This is not correct.  The countries that kick our butts go to school LOTS more than in the US.  This is particularly true of Asian countries.  Numerous studies have shown the easiest way to raise scores in American schools is to lengthen the school day and have more days.  Successful low income programs like Cristo del Rey do exactly that.

[JimL]

The countries that kick our butts go to school LOTS more than in the US.  This is particularly true of Asian countries.  Numerous studies have shown the easiest way to raise scores in American schools is to lengthen the school day and have more days. 

Wayne I agree with you on this, however time spent in school is not the only factor that makes their system better.  The students that the teachers have in their classes have both the desire to learn and the ability to learn.  Everyone understands what it takes to move to the next level, there are no quotas to deal with, either you perform and move on...or you move on to something else.

My wife went to school in Bermuda where the opportunities in their system were based totally on merit.  The kids worked hard without being threatened because they realized that it was incumbent upon them to perform in order to get into the best schools.

Once my wife moved back to the states, she was shocked to see the lack of motivation in many of her classmates.  Until basic systemic problems are solved, no amount of money or time mandated in the classroom will enable us to compete as well as educational systems which aren't encumbered with these problems.

[..]

I pick up my first bus load of elementary kids at 7 in the morning. Drop them at school at 7.13.

I pick them up at 2.50 in the afternoon and drop them off at 3.05.

They do not need to be at school any longer .

The school system needs to be more efficient at teaching during the 8 hours they are at school.

[Trynt]

I spent 34 years as a teacher in Minnesota public schools.  IMHO the most important factor in a student's performance is type of home they come from.  Do the parents emphasize the value of education? Do they provide a good home life for the student and support for the school.  The second is school climate. Is it a place where proper behavior is expected and rules are enforced?  Is it a place where academic performance is taken seriously?   Certainly students can overcome a poor home life and excel in a chaotic school setting, but many won't.  I have taught in both "good" and "bad" schools and can tell you first hand that it is very difficult to teach in an out of control school where good students are mocked by their peers. As far as educational studies go, they are like statistics.  You can always find some to support your stance.  While a longer school year may improve performance, its doubtful longer days would.  After an 8 hour school day kids need a break.  This is especially true if the content of their courses is truly rigorous.

[Hoser]

I pick up my first bus load of elementary kids at 7 in the morning. Drop them at school at 7.13.

I pick them up at 2.50 in the afternoon and drop them off at 3.05.

They do not need to be at school any longer .

The school system needs to be more efficient at teaching during the 8 hours they are at school.

Why in the hell should any kid have to go to school at 7 am?

[MP]

Hoser:
I drove school bus for 16 years.  Picked up my first kids at 6:45AM, and dropped them off at 5:10PM.
Now, I had a rural route, and I drove over 125 miles a day!  The farthest out farm kids had 1 hr, 20 minute ride each way, as we dropped off kids at their farms along the way.
I always laughed at the city kids, who walked two blocks in our little town, being late, and their parents talking about how hard it was to get them up early enough to get to  school on time!  LOL


When I went to school, I know kids who did the farm's milking BEFORE getting on the bus at 6:45 AM every morning!  Thank God we had no milk cows!

MP

[JerryB]

I walked a mile each way to catch the bus.........uphill both ways.......... ..JB.

[valkmc]

The problem is much deeper than length of day, I teach at a high school and see about 150 students per day. About 1/3 of them are there to learn the rest are not. I am lucky I teach Criminal Justice and most of my students are in class because they want to be (future L.E. officers, lawyers, etc.) I started out teaching Math to 10th and 11th grade students and it was a nightmare.

There is all sorts of data that points to all sorts of fixes but as someone who works with children I believe the main problem with the US education system is we try to educate everyone. Most of the schools that kick our but do not educate everyone for college. Many nations educate to the 9th or 10th grade and based on testing some students go to technical school and are taken out of the college track. In the UNited States we educate everyone on a college track (most everyone), take a look at the FCAT test students have to pass to graduate in Florida, every year it gets closer to the SAT and ACT, college entrance test. This causes students who want to pursue something other than college to take the same courses as students planning on going to four more years of school.

We also provide free education to students who do not want to be in school, try teaching a class of 35 14 year olds when 2 or 3 of them do not behave at all. At my school you can not kick them out of class, you have to contact their parents, (the last one I called mom stated I can't do a thing with him can you do something), oh and you can't put your hands on them or threaten them. They have rights, along with their right to a free education.

The last thing that is a concern is who will pay for longer days, school budgets in this county have been cut the last three years and no matter what people say teacher pay sucks, in our  county a correctional officer w/a high school diploma starts at the same pay as a school teacher w/a 4 year degree. I may have the summer off but I wotk roughly 10-12 hours a day for 7.75 hrs pay the rest of the year. 41% of the teachers at our school have a 2nd job and/or a summer job. Our parking lot is not full of big suvs or sports cars unless the students are driving them. I took a 25% pay cut to leave the state prison and go to work in our school district. I truly don't believe that effects student performance because most teachers don't work for the $, what I believe it shows is right or wrong most people do not want to pay more taxs for schools and you can't increase the time students spend in school w/o increaseing funding.