Are bikers BETTER/SAFER cage drivers?

[John G.]

The thesis:  Biker drivers make better/safer cage drivers than non-bikers. 

I am talking about real bike drivers who take it as serious as it is.  This thesis has gotten me into some real discussion lately.  I believe they do but have no data to back me up and when the discussion is underway the opinion about "crouch rocket daredevils" creeps in to challenge my opinion.   

[Bladedog]

After taking the MSF course here in CA, it certainly made me more aware of hazards not just for riding but for driving as well.  I'd say I'm more alert AND considerate now, and a bit less agressive.

[Jack]

I doubt if being a "biker" makes you a safer driver.  I think it might make you more aware of your surroundings but I don't think it translates to less accidents or tickets.  That said, being hit or some other accident whether in a cage or on a bike does make you more cautious.

[Moonshot_1]

Well, of course, being a biker makes for a safer cage driver.
If you are a serious biker and are out there everyday, you develop some rather refined survival skills when it comes to driving.
These skills (a result of paranoia) become second nature and stay with you when behind the wheel of a cage. I am far more in tune with the road and my surroundings because I ride a bike everyday. And I KNOW that translates to when I'm behind the wheel of a cage.
I'm also actively looking out for cycles.

Now, there is a caveat to this.
As it relates to the crotch rocket crowd that feels that they are indestructable, this would likely not make a difference.
But for the serious biker, the cross country, sit on the bike for hours on end , everyday in metro traffic, kind of biker, then I do beilieve that it would apply.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I agree riding a motorcycle responsibly makes one a better car driver.
I think we are more aware of our surroundings and more aware of the relationship between rider/driver and his machine.

[sheets]

Having spent 35 years of my adult life working in the middle, or along side of, the road, I have an honorary degree in traffic psychology.  That much said I'm very "aware" of cage drivers and believe I can predict their every move.  I'd have to say being a "rider" makes for even a better driver.  I don't take it for granted.  I think about the possibilities every time I fire her up.  I've  bad-mouthed my kid's driving skills for years.  He is a pilot, spending far more time in the air than on the ground.  Once he became a "rider" I told him you will now become a better driver.  And he has.  And he agrees. Ymmv, 

[HayHauler]

While driving my 4X4 diesel Dodge Megacab, I find myself pulling in behind MC riders to try to protect them from other cage drivers.  If someone runs into the back of my truck, unless it is a vehicle of equal or greater size, it won't hurt a thing.  The RanchHand can handle it.  I will stop traffic to let a MC out onto the road in front of me to make it safer for them.  I also find myself driving slower in the truck, because it is, well, a  TRUCK and not my Valkyrie InterState.  If my IS could pull my small RV, I would have no need for the truck. 

To me, motorcycle riding is Freedom and I will do all I can do to protect it and by Brothers that ride also.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[John G.]

I believe the inputs support my opinion.  I do believe that bikers are more aware of what's going on around them and the recognition of hazards and accident avoidance.  If you are not---you are history.  For actual physical skills, there may not be a noticeable difference.  In addition, as mentioned, many bikers, to improve their skills periodically attend motorcycle safety/skill courses which has a spin off benefit in operation of an automobile.  Additional safety/skill courses are unheard of in the cage world (excluding DUI sentence) where it's license at 16 and then brain dead until someone is.   

[solo1]

As I wind down my riding all these years, I found that the  skills, attitude, and experience on two wheels have carried over to my driving.  I'm very much aware of what's happening around me.

I was on the Miata forum the other day and drivers were discussing late apexing, use of throttle and brakes (ie, braking before a turn and feeding in the throttle through the turn ),  awareness of conditions as Miatas have the same problem of motorcycles, visibility to other less trained drivers, etc.

Yes, riding has made me a better driver.

[Gryphon Rider]

Right now a researcher at the University of Calgary is recruiting licenced motorcycle riders (age 18-30) to be tested in the U of C's car driving simulator.  Although she wouldn't fill me in on her thesis (somehow it might skew the results if I talked to a testee), I suspect it relates to your question directly.  When I see her report, I'll pass on the results in this forum.

[sandy]

Riders and cagers come from all walks of life. I see many bikers on local freeways dodging in and out of lanes, tailgating and speeding. This isn't limited to a type of bike. They ride bikes just like they drive a car. On this forum we talk about safety and get those responses. Those that drive badly aren't answering because they don't think it pertains to them. "I'm alive, therefore I'm a safe driver". We're only better because we care more are proactive in our preservation.

[ChromeDome]

I would like to think that I am a much better cage driver because I ride a mototrcycle but just don't know if one has anything to do with the other. I do know that I am more aware of my surroundings, other drivers and what traffic in general is doing and that I do attribute to riding a motorcycle.

[RedValk]

Well, of course, being a biker makes for a safer cage driver.
If you are a serious biker and are out there everyday, you develop some rather refined survival skills when it comes to driving.
These skills (a result of paranoia) become second nature and stay with you when behind the wheel of a cage. I am far more in tune with the road and my surroundings because I ride a bike everyday. And I KNOW that translates to when I'm behind the wheel of a cage.
I'm also actively looking out for cycles.

Now, there is a caveat to this.
As it relates to the crotch rocket crowd that feels that they are indestructable, this would likely not make a difference.
But for the serious biker, the cross country, sit on the bike for hours on end , everyday in metro traffic, kind of biker, then I do beilieve that it would apply.

+1

and i see the difference almost every day when i go to lunch with my "office mates". THose who ride bikes (and have SURVIVED for MANY years), are always more aware of their surroundings....and therefore, i feel more comfortable riding in the "cage" with them. Those who have NEVER ridden....ALMOST ALL OF THEM IN THIS CATEGORY....seem to be so much LESS aware of their surroundings...continually pull out in front of folks...don't check their mirrors as often...don't anticipate or have that "i think he won't see me and might pull out from that side street mentality".....oh, and use their cell phones while they drive (something NONE of the biker people do...when driving their cages...i've noticed!). i can tell a vast difference in the people at work i ride to lunch with in cages. Those who ride bikes....and have more defensive skills and situational awareness...and those who haven't ever ridden...and seem to drive more like "Mr. Maggoo". In fact, several of the non biker folks....i've gotten to the point where i won't ride with them if they drive...or...at the very least, i ask them NOT to drive while talking on their cell phone while i'm in the car with them! with the non biker crowd, i find myself constantly checking the mirror or the "environment"...and having to say "look out for this...or look out for that". They'll swerve or brake ...barely avoiding the accident after I warn them...and ask "how/why did you see that guy?" I'll give them my "biker awareness skills" answer. If there are other bikers in the car with us (often, four of us go to lunch at one time in a vehicle...and there are three other bikers in my lunch 'group')...........the other bikers will chime in and reinforce what i'm saying.

i know my biker skills have made me a FAR better cage driver. And i CONSTANTLY use those skills....in a similar manner...while driving my cage(s). Not saying you can't do stupid things nonetheless....just saying...honing and practicing those biker skills....can/does make you a far better cage driver! if you practice the stuff constantly...it becomes habit....whether in YOUR car....SOMEONE else's car...or on your bike.

I'm CONSTANTLY evaluating the side view mirror while a passenger in a car...looking at what's coming up behind 'us'....and evaluating all aspects of the evironment around me.

to the point where, i have a theory...........one that MANY OF YOU..........won't like. BUt, my theory is......***(placing my flame suit on)***............many if not most of the accidents that folks say "there was NOTHING i could do....the accident was UNAVOIDABLE"......are..................in my mind..............in fact, AVOIDABLE. Avoidable for skilled riders/drivers who CONSTANTLY evaluate their surroundings. to the uneducated rider/eye...to the novice...or the individuals that don't CONSTANTLY practice "situational awareness", yes indeed, the accident may have been.......TO THEM............."unavoidable". But to those more aware of their surroundings, MANY of these situations actually are VERY avoidable.

but that's another topic.........for another day.....................right up there with "i laid er' down, nothing else i could do"...............  More often than not, YES, there was much more (and better) things you could do............but again..........I DIGRESS............

Motocycle rider (WELL TRAINED ....that is) = Better Car Driver  

[Slick]

I know that since I took up riding again six years ago, I've become a MUCH better driver. I always thought of myself as a safe driver, but now I truly can see my error of my ways from the past-

[Big IV]

I feel like I am a safe compotent bike rider, but I am not safer as a car driver because of it.

Honestly, I tend to zone out in the car and forget where I am.  The knobs and gadgets have been known to distract me in the car that aren't available on my tourer. I think my wife hates it when I drive her car.

I think the thesis is interesting. It should translate to some degree, but I am not sure that it will.

I do think you need to define the terms within your paper to keep it clear what is meant by "real bike drivers" and what not. How do you prove that? What criteria? Without a full understanding of the criteria it would be hard to put together a study to work with that.

Interesting question.

[Rebyl]

I run courses for Defensive Driving as well as being a Driver Trainer and Assessor for Driving Licences for trucks and have a lot to do with regard to Road Saftey as well as having a small Transport business...whew!!!, I need a holiday...LOL.
Anyway my take is that it is not so much about being a better driver as it is about being a more AWARE driver. If all you have ever driven is a cage then you have got no idea about bikes and trucks and all that is required also if you ride bikes drive trucks and also cages then you understand it from all sides and you become much more aware of your risks. We ALL have to learn to SHARE the road and what we really need is a better ATTITUDE to each other and remember that we all make mistakes....even those of use who live on the road and also have fun on it.....Just comming into Summer here and it's snowing  ......I wannna ride

[RedValk]

Anyway my take is that it is not so much about being a better driver as it is about being a more AWARE driver. If all you have ever driven is a cage then you have got no idea about bikes and trucks and all that is required also if you ride bikes drive trucks and also cages then you understand it from all sides and you become much more aware of your risks.

+1

That's what i keep trying to say....you're more "situationally aware"...of your environment....IF....you have developed those habits from your other driving of other vehicles. Applying that awareness to your environment...AND the PROPER skills learned....is the key. that's why i keep saying all this talk about "putting both feet down or one foot down or being in first or neutral"....etc....is NOT the important thing. Situational awareness of your environment and the risks...and HOW TO HANDLE that environment and risks....IS the key!

[Rocketman]

I would second/third/fourth/whatever the "situational awareness" concept.  I gave a teenager a monologue on driving recently, and it hit on all these issues, especially the differences between vehicle handling (give large vehicles more room in general, watch out for smaller vehicles, etc.).  Talking is no substitute for experience, though.
To extend the original thesis, I would put forth that riding on the back seat has made my wife a better cager, too.  I talk to her enough about what I'm doing, and her own cognizance of vulnerability, has made her notice a lot more things than a normal person would (did I just say my wife is abnormal?  If any of you repeat that, "I KILL YOU!").

I don't think that much of anything else carries over, but the situational awareness is a VERY large part of being out on the road.

Mark

[Moonshot_1]

"Anyway my take is that it is not so much about being a better driver as it is about being a more AWARE driver"


Wouldn't being a more "aware" driver make you, by definition, a better driver?

I would agree that riding a motorcycle that has 2 wheels won't translate into being able to drive a cage on 2 wheels or handle a car any better in the performance sense. But being more aware would mean you would be less likely to play bumper cars with other people. And other cyclist.

[Normandog]

Yes, absolutely, positively and without a doubt. I was out of motorcycling for like 28 yrs. After I was back into it for just a few months, I began to realize what a bad cage driver I had become.