Operation: Disembowel Exhaust

[Moofner]

NEW PROJECT TIME!

Another forum member, Bamo, put some new Yoshimura pipes on his Valkryie. This left his stock pipes weeping in a corner, soon to be forgotten in the realms of garages and clutter. BEHOLD, for one young and dumb Moofner beseeched the Bamo to sell his stock pipes, and save them from a life of neglect. The Bamo graciously agreed and sent his stock pipes for a marginal fee.



Little did these pipes know, they were to be subject to Moofner's next crazy idea. Experimentation and modification!!! MUHAHAHAAHA!

Anyways, here is the plan. I'm going to finally end the questions about what is going on with the stock sound and what is inside our pipes. I may drill them. I may remove some baffling. I may just cut them apart and put them back together. I really don't know yet and I'll decide as I dig in. I know that I cannot out engineer Mother Honda. I know that whatever I do will reduce my back pressure. I know that some gurus here will tell me that I'm screwing things up. I don't care. My money, my time, and I'm having fun. I would like to get some more sound out of the bike without destroying ALL the lovely performance/fuel mileage.

My stock pipes are still on the bike and will remain for the time being. Like my lighting posts, this will be a picture heavy thread as I cut into the stock pipes. First order of business...

Remove the chrome exhaust tips shroud. Doing this first has already revealed a dirty little secret!
Also, Honda was not messing around when they welded these things. I've already got a plan on how to reinstall the shrouds in a way that will allow me to remove them again in the future, without all the cutting.







Dirty little secret #1. The three exhaust tips are a lie. There is only one pipe actually doing anything. The other two are aesthetics. They do nothing for the flow or the sound.

[_Sheffjs_]

Moof!      I need you to give me exact measure ID of the tip!  I need to know if I can do longer tips on mine. 

 Sweetness that you did this and funny about the fake pipes.   

[TallRider]

I have looked at these pipes myself wondering what to do. The fact 2 tips are fake is no secret. If you put a rod into the active tube the measured death is about 14 in if I remember were you hit a baffle. If you look into the tube it actually stops short of the baffle by about an inch. I thought of drilling a hole in to that baffle starting small and increasing if the sound improved but don't have the nerve because there would be no turning back. I figure exhaust enters behind the baffle and travels towards the rear and filters through a perforated sub tube and back to the front out the 1 inch gap in front of the baffle out the back through the active tub. Also wondered if drilling holes in the active tube releasing exhausted more toward the back would increase the rumble or create deeper sound. Let me know if my theory of the design is correct am curious if I am correct.  Glad we gave another adventurer on this subject. In the VTX world there is a company that was modifying the original mufflers and everyone that did the mode loved the results. Good luck can't waite for more posts.

[sleepngbear]

Can't wait to see how this turns out. I'm happy with the stock cans, but I always like to know what's going on under the covers. Thanks for taking this on and sharing! 

So which tip is the real deal, and which two are the imposters??

[postoak]

I'm glad you're doing this so I can see what is inside the exhaust, but I don't see how anyone could want a louder exhaust.  After a couple of months I could sense my hearing going down so I started wearing earplugs.  When I come home, I remove the plugs and blip the throttle 2 or 3 times just to get a taste of that wonderful sound.

[rogueleader_92]

Ok this is interesting, keep it up.

[havoc]

flippin' sweet!!! 

looking forward to this thread as it grows

[ledany]

So which tip is the real deal, and which two are the imposters??

Ha ha, really easy to find out ! I cleaned the bike today, had a look, two are closed, one is free (the lower one). 

[Bamo]

Popcorn in hand, this should be good.  I never thought to check the freaking tubes, Fakes???? What the hell is that? 

[Firefight100]

If you dont have one already, you might consider getting one of the endoscope cameras that plug into a phone or laptop.  Like 12.00 off ebay or amazon.  Would help if you drill a small hole to see inside, the baffles.

[Moofner]

I removes the chrome cover last night. I'm very impressed with Honda''s welds. They are pretty strong. Now I have to decide which end I'm going to open up like a can opener would.

[hungryeye]

Nice neat work, I will follow your progress but will never do it myself, I wear hearing aids in both ears from a life time of loud M/C's, guns, big trucks and big construction equipment. Cheap hearing aids are only 5 grand.

[TallRider]

That looks like a lifetime  muffler all stainless. 

[goldstar903]

For additional info, this has been explored quite extensively over on the F6C.com forum. 

[Moofner]

No pic tonight. I cut the weld around the end cap and found that the single working pipe is welded on the inside somewhere. I will be cutting open the other side to see if that will let me into the guts. If that doesnt work, I am going right up the middle and really will disembowel this thing!

I will see inside this exhaust, one way or another....

[Dragunslayer]

No pic tonight. I cut the weld around the end cap and found that the single working pipe is welded on the inside somewhere. I will be cutting open the other side to see if that will let me into the guts. If that doesnt work, I am going right up the middle and really will disembowel this thing!

I will see inside this exhaust, one way or another....

Back in the day when we use to modify the exhaust on the 3rd Gen Magnas I could have sworn it was a little work to get the end cap off even after drilling all the rivets. There were pipes (or piggies) as some called them that slid thru a baffle plate of sorts (tight fit). Once out they would be cut off which would change the tone

[Adirondack Bill]

TallRider:  This is Adirondack Bill, I had a Honda VTX also- bought it new the first year it came out.  I think is was in 2002. I did the exhaust mods on my VTX. That was a great bike. The VTX owners web site was fantastic! I learned a lot from those guys. I had my VTX for about 8 years and then traded it in for a Suzuki M109R. I thought the VTX was fast, but that M109 was unbelievable. I decided I wanted to get back on a Honda and bought a new black Valk in 2014. The Valk  does not have as much grunt as the M109, but the ride is more refined. The Valk is all the speed I need for now. On my previous rides, I usually got rid of the stock pipes and went with after-market pipes. I Don't mind the quiet grumble of the Valk stock pipes, but everyone is always looking for the "right" sound.

[TallRider]

Friend I road with bought a VTX, power commander and Vance and hines pipes tweaked it from stock 85 to 115 hp also changed the air cleaner that was the top dyno test on the bike. Guess you can't  get that much different  out of the  Valk. Got rid of mine when I found the new Valk. Turned out much easier to ride for me and performance is out of the park.

[Moofner]

I managed to get a bit of time and decided to really sink my teeth into the exhaust. The end cap won't be coming off without some serious creative cutting. That means I had to go through the front.




I know I've said this before, but Honda really did go over the top for this exhaust. The stainless steel is super thick and the welds are magnificent. Still, they aren't going to stop me. I'm in it to win it and I'll be happy even if I trash these pipes in my pursuit to understand them.



I got the cap off can finally see where the magic is happening!

I suspect the material on the outside keeps the drone down with its insulation and vibration absorbing material. The inside pipe looks as if is the diffusing point where the exhaust enters the second chamber. I'm not sure if it will come out easy as there is evidence that it is welded from the other side as I peered through the end cap. The end exhaust pipe travels into this second chamber. Punching a hole through either of these pipes would bypass the second chamber and possibly reduce too much back pressure.



I haven't ruled out cutting the outside stainless exhaust chamber right up the middle. It will probably make reassembly difficult, but it would answer how everything is connected if I can get it off. More to come as I give it a think or two.

[havoc]

right on! 

[Dragunslayer]

I managed to get a bit of time and decided to really sink my teeth into the exhaust. The end cap won't be coming off without some serious creative cutting. That means I had to go through the front.




I know I've said this before, but Honda really did go over the top for this exhaust. The stainless steel is super thick and the welds are magnificent. Still, they aren't going to stop me. I'm in it to win it and I'll be happy even if I trash these pipes in my pursuit to understand them.



I got the cap off can finally see where the magic is happening!

I suspect the material on the outside keeps the drone down with its insulation and vibration absorbing material. The inside pipe looks as if is the diffusing point where the exhaust enters the second chamber. I'm not sure if it will come out easy as there is evidence that it is welded from the other side as I peered through the end cap. The end exhaust pipe travels into this second chamber. Punching a hole through either of these pipes would bypass the second chamber and possibly reduce too much back pressure.



I haven't ruled out cutting the outside stainless exhaust chamber right up the middle. It will probably make reassembly difficult, but it would answer how everything is connected if I can get it off. More to come as I give it a think or two.

So after seeing these pics I decided to do some of my own surgery and am pleasantly please to report that my Valkyrie now sounds the part.

I went ahead and drilled a 5/8-3/4" hole in the top tube closest to the fender. Then you could see the plate pictured in your pics. I went ahead a drilled a 1/2" thru that plate. Now the bike sounds like my old 72 Cutlass with a set of turbo mufflers

[Robert]

So after seeing these pics I decided to do some of my own surgery and am pleasantly please to report that my Valkyrie now sounds the part.

I went ahead and drilled a 5/8-3/4" hole in the top tube closest to the fender. Then you could see the plate pictured in your pics. I went ahead a drilled a 1/2" thru that plate. Now the bike sounds like my old 72 Cutlass with a set of turbo mufflers

Do you feel it yielded any performance improvements?

[TallRider]

I tried that  and didn't like the sound.  Caused a sucking sniffling sound when you back of the thtottle. Went and plugged back up. I thought drilling a hole in the baffle he shows near the front of the muffler were he cut the end off. I think you will get a deeper sound without the  sniffling sound when decelerating. You have that 14" long output tub on the other  side of the front baffle. Those dummy tubes in the back don't  seem to be  connected to the baffle and may get blow by internally in the end cap? Can't  see them well in his picture but they do not appear to be attached and are painted mat black. The actual discharge tube is stainless and not painted. Could use a better picture of that end.

[Dragunslayer]

So after seeing these pics I decided to do some of my own surgery and am pleasantly please to report that my Valkyrie now sounds the part.

I went ahead and drilled a 5/8-3/4" hole in the top tube closest to the fender. Then you could see the plate pictured in your pics. I went ahead a drilled a 1/2" thru that plate. Now the bike sounds like my old 72 Cutlass with a set of turbo mufflers

Do you feel it yielded any performance improvements?

I have not taken it out for a spin yet and do not expect any performance improvements. Honestly if I need more performance than what this bike can offer I will buy another Sportbike.

This bike does just fine for what it is. I think it is a great overall package straight from the factory which is why I bought it.

[Dragunslayer]

I tried that  and didn't like the sound.  Caused a sucking sniffling sound when you back of the thtottle. Went and plugged back up. I thought drilling a hole in the baffle he shows near the front of the muffler were he cut the end off. I think you will get a deeper sound without the  sniffling sound when decelerating. You have that 14" long output tub on the other  side of the front baffle. Those dummy tubes in the back don't  seem to be  connected to the baffle and may get blow by internally in the end cap? Can't  see them well in his picture but they do not appear to be attached and are painted mat black. The actual discharge tube is stainless and not painted. Could use a better picture of that end.

I drilled threw the dummy tube and then the plate behind that that attaches to the main tube he has pictures with the baffle inside.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/KDragunslayer/image_11.jpeg

[TallRider]

I tried that  and didn't like the sound.  Caused a sucking sniffling sound when you back of the thtottle. Went and plugged back up. I thought drilling a hole in the baffle he shows near the front of the muffler were he cut the end off. I think you will get a deeper sound without the  sniffling sound when decelerating. You have that 14" long output tub on the other  side of the front baffle. Those dummy tubes in the back don't  seem to be  connected to the baffle and may get blow by internally in the end cap? Can't  see them well in his picture but they do not appear to be attached and are painted mat black. The actual discharge tube is stainless and not painted. Could use a better picture of that end.

I drilled threw the dummy tube and then the plate behind that that attaches to the main tube he has pictures with the baffle inside.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/KDragunslayer/image_11.jpeg

Yep, did same thing sounded louder but like a leaky exhaust system. Plugged it  back up.

[Dragunslayer]

Well unlike all the others I will post my video and let others decide if it sounds like an exhaust leak. I am inspired to possible go further over the winter and put glass packs on though which would sound way sweater.

http://youtu.be/hYYoBqklqI4

[Moofner]

I tried that  and didn't like the sound.  Caused a sucking sniffling sound when you back of the thtottle. Went and plugged back up. I thought drilling a hole in the baffle he shows near the front of the muffler were he cut the end off. I think you will get a deeper sound without the  sniffling sound when decelerating. You have that 14" long output tub on the other  side of the front baffle. Those dummy tubes in the back don't  seem to be  connected to the baffle and may get blow by internally in the end cap? Can't  see them well in his picture but they do not appear to be attached and are painted mat black. The actual discharge tube is stainless and not painted. Could use a better picture of that end.

I drilled threw the dummy tube and then the plate behind that that attaches to the main tube he has pictures with the baffle inside.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/KDragunslayer/image_11.jpeg

I'm pretty sure that punching through the first plate won't help much. The end cap itself has an open space before it gets to the internal secondary muffler. I need time to either take the 3 fake pipes and end cap off or to just cut the entire thing off.

Time is a short commodity right now.

[sleepngbear]

Well unlike all the others I will post my video and let others decide if it sounds like an exhaust leak. I am inspired to possible go further over the winter and put glass packs on though which would sound way sweater.

http://youtu.be/hYYoBqklqI4

That actually sounds pretty good from this side of the iPad. I'll give it another listen from the infinitely better speakers on the desktop.

Thanks for posting. 

[Dragunslayer]

Well unlike all the others I will post my video and let others decide if it sounds like an exhaust leak. I am inspired to possible go further over the winter and put glass packs on though which would sound way sweater.

http://youtu.be/hYYoBqklqI4

That actually sounds pretty good from this side of the iPad. I'll give it another listen from the infinitely better speakers on the desktop.


Take 2

http://youtu.be/qI-cfZtafaA

Thanks for posting. 

[TallRider]

Doesn't sound bad but hard to tell. Will check it on desktop to. I do think if properly done drilling into front baffle were exhaust enters muffler may create a deeper sound. That is what I would like to  get. Kind of like the MagnaFlow sounds if you know what I mean. I don't  necessarily want a sharp rap sound, looking for the deep throaty sound. That would mellow out at cruise speed and not be annoying to your ear as some exhaust sounds can be. That's how it's done, tinker till you get it right.

[Dragunslayer]

Doesn't sound bad but hard to tell. Will check it on desktop to. I do think if properly done drilling into front baffle were exhaust enters muffler may create a deeper sound. That is what I would like to  get. Kind of like the MagnaFlow sounds if you know what I mean. I don't  necessarily want a sharp rap sound, looking for the deep throaty sound. That would mellow out at cruise speed and not be annoying to your ear as some exhaust sounds can be. That's how it's done, tinker till you get it right.

So I watched a few videos and I think it sounds like the 2 Bros on the F6B only they do NOT produce a droning sound when maintaining a STEADY cruising speed.

[TallRider]

If I understand things right. There are a number of suppliers for f6b and wings? Difference is mufflers are longer, right?Why not come up with a shorter version? That is the difference needed for f6c "new Valk" right?  Wish I lived close buy, I would love to help. Have lathe, milling machine, drill press, surface grinder. Even  have a mig welder, but sent it north to my son in law. Someone have after market laying around, could shorten and find out?

[Dragunslayer]

I agree the only issue should be the length after the mounting points.

[hungryeye]

If you were into drag pipes you would just have to trim the ends to desired length.

[TallRider]

I think for the most part people are OK with the current pipe. I think many would like a more robust sound. I would be in that group. as of now when you hit the trottle the pipes actualy go quiet and get nothing durring excelleration. As for the drone the pipes current do have that at steady speed as it is. Although not a problem. As for the Brothers pipes it seems a lot like the sound and is popular but wondering if one could shorten them and to what effect it would have on the sound output. As to the current mfgrs of the pipes for Wings and f6b's I would think it would not be much effort to shorten one of theres to see if it would sell. I also would like to hear a good sound clip from Torque Mastrs to. I don't see much R.D. cost in trying that out? Either case the quest must go on.

[Jambriwal]

What a great post. Thanks for all your hard work. Great piece of mind with the construction and materials (stainless steel) used. I removed my jap bikes in the 70's that had exhaust made out Reynolds wrap. Replaced one with a Super Trap and one with Bub two into one. Superior quality.
I have modified a couple of pipes over the years with some degree of success. Little more cautious on the Valkyrie because it works so well. The drone at 55 to 60 can be annoying but it's the worst I can say about the powertrain.
Looking forward to what else you find.
Jim

[Robert]

NO hp gain, no change, except for may get the torque tubes. But I am really happy with the bike being quiet and a loud horn. I know it would be cool to have a bit more noise but at 5 am I am happy for the quiet and being able to go anywhere without worrying about waking people up. But thanks for the great post and work, I was wondering what was inside the mufflers since they were pretty light weight.

[Moofner]

I can't see there being any performance gain through these mufflers when modified. Anything I remove will decrease back pressure and allow the motor to breathe more. I'd have to add in a Power Commander (which I do not want to do) or hope the motor can compensate a bit. The Torque Loops would be a great addition if my mad scientist idea works, but right now I haven't actually removed anything.

Now that being said I'm still going to open it up a bit to get a better sound. This is a sound game to me, not a performance gain. I have a lot of projects going on (like building a custom motorcycle trailer that can haul both Valkyries) and only work on the mufflers when I want to destroy something instead of building. Welding these back together is going to be super fun.

[hungryeye]

Hey Moof, check razortrailer.com , I bought one of these last year to haul my bike to AZ where I live for 7 months out of the year. It is a simple design, a main frame and a deck is attached by a full width hinge at the very rear, it uses a boat trailer hand crank winch to lower and raise the center deck to ground. It uses torsion axles allowing the deck to lower to ground.

I made 1.5 round trips so far, the cheap Walmart trailer tires he used wore bald by the time I got to AZ last year from NC. I replaced with a decent set from discount tire and they made a complete  round trip with little wear. I don't like his welds but none have failed, the paint job is cheezy, I had to redo some aluminum diamond plate trim on the deck, 1/2 the pop rivets failed 1st trip, replaced with tech screws. I could have easily fabricated this trailer myself had I known the design is not complicated. I paid 3k for it with a few options. Prolly can build it for under 1k, Check it out.