Any national health supporters here? Read on

[..]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218927/Plumber-shattered-arm-left-horrifically-bent-shape-operation-cancelled-times.html

[PAVALKER]

WTH ???   That looks downright painful.   And he is being denied unemployment support because he can turn on a faucet???? 

[Momz]

If the entire world had national health care like the British and Canadians, we would all have real problems. Thankfully most of the civlized world has healthcare systems that do work!

The healthcare system in this country leaves a lot to be desired. If your employer offers insurance, or if you are (still) working you may be able to afford coverage. But lets face it even insurance companies are failing to provide or reducing coverage to thier customers. I've been told that certain ailments cannot be paid for due to: Prexisting Conditions. My brother has worked for years in a local hospital and has insurance coverage. The insurance company that covers him requires that he see a Dr. at the hospital he works at. He was recently told that any further tests that apply to his Hepatitus C are no longer covered as any future treatments for this disease. No coverage due to Hepatitus C,...does that seem right?

[BigAlOfMD]

were too small (made for children ) and the plate and screws broke.
It wasn't considered an emergancy so I had to walk arround with a broken arm for 6 weeks before I could get a second operation.
This was in Maryland USA.

[PAVALKER]

were too small (made for children ) and the plate and screws broke.
It wasn't considered an emergancy so I had to walk arround with a broken arm for 6 weeks before I could get a second operation.
This was in Maryland USA.

And who is your Healthcare Plan with and what was the Healthcare Provider???

[BigAlOfMD]

And who is your Healthcare Plan with and what was the Healthcare Provider???

Aetna PPO
1st surgery was ER @ UofM Hospital. Flown there by medi-choper. Out of network.
2nd surgery was with 2 local in network surgens.

[Fathertime]

Hmmm, health care and insurance.  Two of my most favorite topics, NOT!  I won't comment about "national" VS private, UK/Canadian Vs USA or any of that trash.  I will make two comments.  1)  I don't have the answer, but we need a better system.  2) Private insurance is NOT your friend.  Don't ever forget they are a for profit company.  Your health comes in second place.

[Hoosier Valk]

I hate to comment on the healthcare debate. BUT!
1.No one should have to go bankrupt because they get sick.
2. No one should die or be in pain because they can't afford medicine or be able to see a health care professional.

Currently there are least 46 million people in the country that aren't far from these being a strong possibility.  

[valkmc]

What scares me is as a teacher I am not far above those who have lost or can not afford their insurance. The health insurance for a family at my school district is $594 per month, this for teaching jobs that start at 32.000 a year.

Health Insurance companies are about profit not your health and in this system you accept what your employer accepts or you get another job. If people like myself who have worked for an employer and done what they are suppose to do are losing insurance because they can no longer afford it while companies like BCBS are making large profits than there is a problem.

In the end we all pay for those who do not have insurance when they go to the emergency room, just like credit card companies hospitals build into their price the estimated % of cost they will never get paid for. So when people don't pay we all pick up the tab when we go to the hospital.

[Fathertime]

Its not just the hospitals, look at your next claim statement.  When providers accept 50% of what they bill as full payment for services provided, something is wrong

[NiteRiderF6]

Don't you guys worry.... President Obama is going to fix it all....

Either you have health insurance coverage or you will get fined for not having it... PROBLEM SOLVED!

[x]

Don't you guys worry.... President Obama is going to fix it all....

Either you have health insurance coverage or you will get fined for not having it... PROBLEM SOLVED!

Nothing like misrepresentations to help the debate along... NOT.   

Medical insurance should not be a for profit industry.  The CEO of Wellcare made 9.8 million last year... at $3,000 per premium, more than 3,000 policy holders did nothing but pay her salary.  That's the point of a public option... insurance costs can be accurately estimated with actuarial tables... don't need to pay someone 10 million.

Second, why is business saddled with the responsibility of providing health insurance for employees.  It makes the US less competitive because no other company in the world has to add health costs into the final product.  And it penalizes employees who leave or are laid off.

I went to the doctor in Singapore.  It cost me $55 to see a doctor and get some anti-biotics and pain reliever.  Health care is first class here... and a lot cheaper... because the profit in insurance and unnecessary medical procedures, has been removed.

[NiteRiderF6]

Misrepresentations? Please!

How about hearing it in his own words? From one of the bastians of Liberal thinking? ABC News....

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/obama-week-insurance-mandate-not-tax

Perhaps you should read UP before you insult the others here on this board partner.

[Jess Tolbirt]

my insurance requires a 2500 dollar deductible,,they pay nothing till i reach that point then they pay 100%
thats 2500 per year,,,,
insurance sucks,,,
Beverly needs to go to the doctor real bad and yes we will spend every dime we have so she can go,,,may have to sell the bike...

[x]

Misrepresentations? Please!

How about hearing it in his own words? From one of the bastians of Liberal thinking? ABC News....

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/obama-week-insurance-mandate-not-tax

Perhaps you should read UP before you insult the others here on this board partner.

What a stellar website... like I said... misrepresentations of an issue far more complex than that one sound bite.

PS:  It wasn't an insult, it was a statement... but take it any way you want.

[Charlie]

Misrepresentations? Please!

How about hearing it in his own words? From one of the bastians of Liberal thinking? ABC News....

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/obama-week-insurance-mandate-not-tax

Perhaps you should read UP before you insult the others here on this board partner.

I find it interesting that four of our brothers are having issues with their Healthcare/Insurance and you bring in the "Liberal" issue to stir the pot.  Instead of that maybe you could help us with some solutions that work for both sides.  This isn't an "Conservative" or "Liberal" issue, and should not be discussed as such.  Just because a "Liberal" has an idea, it doesn't mean it is good or bad.  Geeeeezzzzzeeeee!!!!!!

[Mikey]

Strong Eagle, I've noticed that you're a pretty big Obama fan. Being that you live in Singapore, what do you base your opinion on, besides the media? And if you do use the media, what outlet do you prefer?

[JimL]

Don't you guys worry.... President Obama is going to fix it all....

Either you have health insurance coverage or you will get fined for not having it... PROBLEM SOLVED!

Nothing like misrepresentations to help the debate along... NOT.   

Medical insurance should not be a for profit industry.  The CEO of Wellcare made 9.8 million last year... at $3,000 per premium, more than 3,000 policy holders did nothing but pay her salary.  That's the point of a public option... insurance costs can be accurately estimated with actuarial tables... don't need to pay someone 10 million.

Second, why is business saddled with the responsibility of providing health insurance for employees.  It makes the US less competitive because no other company in the world has to add health costs into the final product.  And it penalizes employees who leave or are laid off.

I went to the doctor in Singapore.  It cost me $55 to see a doctor and get some anti-biotics and pain reliever.  Health care is first class here... and a lot cheaper... because the profit in insurance and unnecessary medical procedures, has been removed.

Wayne I gradually gotten to know you a bit through the postings on this board.  I acknowledge that you are an educated man and have accomplished a bit during your lifetime.  In some ways you remind me of my father-in-law...and to be honest both of you frustrate me.  Let me explain why.  Without going into a lot of detail, suffice to say, my father-in-law is one of the most intelligent men I have ever met (and I have met a lot of very bright people during my career); he is a "world class" physicist (I think he still is the fastest PhD to receive their doctorate at Penn State University) who during his career refined much of the mathematics used by some of the defense systems in our military today.

A brilliant man, but has become extremely liberal in his old age.  Yes the patriot in him still believes that we were justified in using "enhanced interrogation" techniques to extract information for Kalid Sheik Muhammed, and to be honest he and I both agree that it doesn't matter if it is torture or not when it comes to saving American lives.  However when it comes to social topics like health care and income re-distribution he sounds a lot like you.  He and I have spent numerous hours of sometimes "spirited debate" on these topics.  I can tell you that a large part of his politics had to do with his formative years when he worked in the family trade as a brick layer while working his way through college.  He worked as a brick layer just when they started having labor unions, and to this day he has such contempt for some of the heavy handed tactics used by management to instill fear in their employees (I actually agree that much of that contempt is deserved).  However, in his mind he has contempt for whatever he sees as being the "establishment"; because subliminally he equates the "establishment" with the same folks that made life difficult for him as a bricklayer 55 years ago.  I think he feels somewhat vindicated when he sees the assets of those who have been successful get taken away by the government.

When I ask him if he feels that it is appropriate that folks (like myself) who at many times during their career worked the 60-70 hour weeks, spent weeks away from home and family in order to get ahead; simply have it taken away so that it can be re-distributed to someone who chose to stay home and work a 40 hour week...his response is that it is the responsibility of the state to provide for those who can't provide for themselves.  I have many time pointed out the irony that he as a devout atheist does not want religion forced on him, however he feels that someone elses "moral code" should be forced on me?  The discussion usually stops here because even this brilliant man has no answer that makes sense, and by this time the volume of the debate has gotten a bit too loud.

Wayne, I was going to go line by line explaining why disagree with some of your observations...but unfortunately I have rambled on too long and I have to get prepared for my 8:00 meeting.

[asfltdncr]

Well, it looks like the British's national health care system could use a little tweeking.I won't go to Britain for my health care needs.

[Puffs Daddy]

If the entire world had national health care like the British and Canadians, we would all have real problems. Thankfully most of the civlized world has healthcare systems that do work!

The healthcare system in this country leaves a lot to be desired. If your employer offers insurance, or if you are (still) working you may be able to afford coverage. But lets face it even insurance companies are failing to provide or reducing coverage to thier customers. I've been told that certain ailments cannot be paid for due to: Prexisting Conditions. My brother has worked for years in a local hospital and has insurance coverage. The insurance company that covers him requires that he see a Dr. at the hospital he works at. He was recently told that any further tests that apply to his Hepatitus C are no longer covered as any future treatments for this disease. No coverage due to Hepatitus C,...does that seem right?

Uh, the Canadian and British health care insurance systems are completely different.

[Scanner]

Don't you guys worry.... President Obama is going to fix it all....

Either you have health insurance coverage or you will get fined for not having it... PROBLEM SOLVED!

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

Using the ER as your primary care due to no insurance is the equivalent of a hit-and-run. The rest of us pay for it.

The idea is that we can have affordable insurance if the cost is shared by all. 

If you can't afford it there are workarounds. If you can afford it you get it - no free rides.

[Jeff K]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

[Scanner]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

Ok, so you only have to buy health insurance if you are breathing and there is a possibility you might stop.

By the way, do they "stand in line" to pay for the roads you drive on, the police that patrol them, the firemen who come to your aid, the schools your children go to, the development of vaccines to keep you healthy, the FAA to regulate the airways and aircraft, FDA to try and ensure your medications and food are safe, and on and on and on?....you know, all that socialist stuff....

[Fathertime]

  I dont know about other areas of the nation, but if my primary health care provider decides that I need to be admitted to the Hospital, its straight to the ER I go.  No ifs' ands' or buts!  This is really sad since all the primary care providers here work out of out reach offices/clinics sponsored by that same hospital.  To add insult to injury, my Dr. has no visiting rights at that same hospital!  I get to be treated by something called a "Hospitalist" who has never seen me before, does not know a thing about my history except what may be in my chart, and barely speaks American English.
  Does this make me a hit and run?
  Take the costs of medical care and spread the cost around?  How are we going to determine exactly how much additional we send in each year?  Who is going to manage these funds?  The government?  The same government who is sooo frugal with all the money (taxes) we send in to them each year?  The same government that so many of us on this board take great pleasure in bashing so frequently?  The same government who spends a fortune funding a study to find out why convicted felons dont like being in prison?  At any rate, we already have a national health plan.  Its called Medicare and Medicade.  Find someone on either of those programs and ask how they like it.  Then convince me that I should change over to a "national" plan.  Perhaps we could let private enterprise manage all those collected funds (taxes).  First, I'd love to hear about the legality of a private company run on public money.  Oh, wait, thats the government again!  Getting past that, convince me that a private, for profit company funded by mandated "bills" (either paid by employers or employees) is somehow going to change their for profit mind set.  My major insurance company has in the past refused medically required services and devices in order to try to save a few bucks only to be hit with major, long term hospital stays costing tens of thousands of dollars.
  Am I bitter over some aspects of health care?  You bet I am!
  Do I have the answers?  Nope, but I wish I did!
  Is health care expensive?  Damn straight!  But there are many reasons for that, billing practices, insurance costs, super expensive tests just to "cover all the bases" (read cover your A$$), stupid law suits, and outright poor health care and more are the cause of sky rocketing costs.  Trips to the ER are just the tip of the iceburg.

[Fathertime]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

Ok, so you only have to buy health insurance if you are breathing and there is a possibility you might stop.

By the way, do they "stand in line" to pay for the roads you drive on, the police that patrol them, the firemen who come to your aid, the schools your children go to, the development of vaccines to keep you healthy, the FAA to regulate the airways and aircraft, FDA to try and ensure your medications and food are safe, and on and on and on?....you know, all that socialist stuff....

  Nope, I only have to buy health insurance if I want to possibly avoid bank account busting bills if and when I do get ill.  If I dont have insurance I get saddled with the full bill.  At least with insurance I only have to pay my deductable and co-pay amounts.  How much I pay in premiums depends on how low/high I want my deductable or co-pay to be.
  No need to "stand in line" to pay for all those other things, I just mail in my Tax bill every year, just like every other citizen. 

[Scanner]

Fathertime said: "At any rate, we already have a national health plan.  Its called Medicare and Medicade.  Find someone on either of those programs and ask how they like it".

OK, so you want me to ask someone if they'd rather just pay all their bills out-of-pocket or have Medicare insurance?  eh?


By the way, my post said "Using the ER as your primary care due to no insurance"  As to the rest of your post, I wouldn't know where to begin......good luck.

[Jeff K]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

Ok, so you only have to buy health insurance if you are breathing and there is a possibility you might stop.

By the way, do they "stand in line" to pay for the roads you drive on, the police that patrol them, the firemen who come to your aid, the schools your children go to, the development of vaccines to keep you healthy, the FAA to regulate the airways and aircraft, FDA to try and ensure your medications and food are safe, and on and on and on?....you know, all that socialist stuff....

Ah, diversion tactics. Quick look over there!!
So I should be happy that they want to add yet another tax to cover people that can't/won't pay their own way?
Your argument is just frosting on my cake. I don't like paying School taxes to cover public schools after paying for private schools for my kids to keep my kids out of the fabulous public school system.

I don't want more taxes, I want what I paid for already. And that isn't happening now.
I also sick of hearing "no one should loose their home because of medical bills" no one does, they may file bankruptcy, but they do not loose their home unless they stopped making payments on their home.
I was married at the ripe old age of 17, my son had a horrible time with bronchitis, I went deep in debt, It hounded me for years, but Holy Crap!!! I actually paid off my debt! Unthinkable!!
I never once asked for help from anyone. I didn't expect help from anyone.

Social health care is plain and simple Federal welfare. I don't need it, I don't want it. I want to keep more of my money, not hand out more to the government. Never took a dime of unemployment, never took a dime of welfare. And yes I am proud of that. And I expect everyone to follow the same path.  

[Fathertime]

Fathertime said: "At any rate, we already have a national health plan.  Its called Medicare and Medicade.  Find someone on either of those programs and ask how they like it".

OK, so you want me to ask someone if they'd rather just pay all their bills out-of-pocket or have Medicare insurance?  eh?

  No, I asked you to find out how they LIKE it.

  Pay their bills?  What an interesting concept!  Taking responsibility for ones own obligations!  Wish more people did that!

[Puffs Daddy]

Fathertime said: "At any rate, we already have a national health plan.  Its called Medicare and Medicade.  Find someone on either of those programs and ask how they like it".

OK, so you want me to ask someone if they'd rather just pay all their bills out-of-pocket or have Medicare insurance?  eh?


By the way, my post said "Using the ER as your primary care due to no insurance"  As to the rest of your post, I wouldn't know where to begin......good luck.

It is perhaps worth noting that the support for Medicare among senior citizens runs about 90%.

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

OK this is just my 2 penny's worth,
The UK is not quite a banana republic yet. Our health care is more than adequate - you have the option of paying and choosing private practice if you are not happy.
It is not 'free' every tax payer has a 'National Insurance' deduction from there pay along with their income tax.
You will be seen promptly and operated on within a given time span no extra charges are levied.
The very young, elderly, chronically and terminally ill take priority.
Valk related bit here: when we crashed our first Valk hard, my wife and I were rushed to the nearest hospital. 2 ambulances were used with a crew of 2 in each. Glynis had been unconcious so they were taking no chances - the Valk had gnawed on my leg so I could wait.
Glynis had her head and upper body scanned I had my leg and foot X rayed.
Luck nothing broken and released later that afternoon.
Later that evening Glynis went dopey on me, rushed her to local hospital where she was seen straight away. She was released the following day when the medical staff thought she was fit - no time restraints, no hassle.
Charge to us for this (big bag of meds and bandages and dressings included) nothing.
Not Valk related. Our youngest granddaughter was premature and has been slow gaining weight, we've been worried about her slow responces, our family doctor refered her to a specialist. Again she was scanned (no problems) and the paediatrician reassured my daughter all was well (an early baby just making up time) but if she had any problems phone him direct. Charge to us - nothing.
Remember the news report comes from the Daily Mail a newspaper not renowned for its accurate or unbiased reporting. It has larger fish to fry at the moment being more intrested in dissing our Labour goverment and supporting the Conservatives. As I say just my opinion from this side of the pond.

[Jeff K]

OK this is just my 2 penny's worth,
The UK is not quite a banana republic yet. Our health care is more than adequate - you have the option of paying and choosing private practice if you are not happy.
It is not 'free' every tax payer has a 'National Insurance' deduction from there pay along with their income tax.
You will be seen promptly and operated on within a given time span no extra charges are levied.
The very young, elderly, chronically and terminally ill take priority.
Valk related bit here: when we crashed our first Valk hard, my wife and I were rushed to the nearest hospital. 2 ambulances were used with a crew of 2 in each. Glynis had been unconcious so they were taking no chances - the Valk had gnawed on my leg so I could wait.
Glynis had her head and upper body scanned I had my leg and foot X rayed.
Luck nothing broken and released later that afternoon.
Later that evening Glynis went dopey on me, rushed her to local hospital where she was seen straight away. She was released the following day when the medical staff thought she was fit - no time restraints, no hassle.
Charge to us for this (big bag of meds and bandages and dressings included) nothing.
Not Valk related. Our youngest granddaughter was premature and has been slow gaining weight, we've been worried about her slow responces, our family doctor refered her to a specialist. Again she was scanned (no problems) and the paediatrician reassured my daughter all was well (an early baby just making up time) but if she had any problems phone him direct. Charge to us - nothing.
Remember the news report comes from the Daily Mail a newspaper not renowned for its accurate or unbiased reporting. It has larger fish to fry at the moment being more intrested in dissing our Labour goverment and supporting the Conservatives. As I say just my opinion from this side of the pond.

Any Idea what that Health insurance tax cost?
I doubt all of the cost is covered by the "National Insurance" tax, but I'm curious How much is that tax and is it based on income?

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

Had to go away and look this up (busy at work this morning).
National Insurance is 11% to everyone on medium salary, high earners an extra 1%, free if you are a low earner or no income + 12.8% from your employer. 2% of this is for health care, rest goes to State pension (to every one regardless of income/savings), unemployment benefit, maternity benefit, longterm disability etc.
I note that our Insurance system is just that, not connected with Income tax or our Value Added Tax and is not available to the Goverment for any other purpose than social well being.
It's not generally thought of like that here, most people are under the impression we have one pot the Gov. draws from, but from what I understand, it would take an Act of Parliament to change the current system. As an aside the system has been in place since 1948 and works on a pay this year to fund next year basis. Some years it has to borrow from the tax system but for the last 10 years it's been in credit.
You can opt out the Pension payments but not the other parts.
 

[ArmyValker]

Don't you guys worry.... President Obama is going to fix it all....

Either you have health insurance coverage or you will get fined for not having it... PROBLEM SOLVED!

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

Using the ER as your primary care due to no insurance is the equivalent of a hit-and-run. The rest of us pay for it.

The idea is that we can have affordable insurance if the cost is shared by all. 

If you can't afford it there are workarounds. If you can afford it you get it - no free rides.

The difference is, Auto insurance is protection against an accident that likely will not happen. The insurance companies make money because the vast majority of their policies go unpaid. Health insurance is not insurance, it's coverage. People with health insurance policies use them to pay for everything from routine physical exams to major surgery.

I think StrongEagle made a very good point. Health insurance should not be the burden on the employer, it DOES hurt small business and makes us less competitive with the rest of the world. However, I think Americans will have to choose whether they want a nanny-state government with high taxes and a govenment managed medical industry or whether they want to pay for health coverage on their own, which MOST people do not and some people CAN not.

My medical coverage with the military is "free". Calculated into my paycheck as they say. Every year I get a piece of paper that says "How much you REALLY make" and it is usually around 75000 dollars a year with all my benefits added in. My "real" pay is around 30,000 dollars a year and the availibility of medical care (at the government run facility) here is such that I choose to pay for my own medical insurance through my wife's job. It's about 350.00 dollars a month.

There should be some form of healthcare reform. I've watched many of my family, friends and neighbors heavily burdened by health care costs and government red tape for too long. I just don't know what the answer is.

[John Schmidt]

It isn't free folks. You pay into it for years prior to retirement, just like SS. But when you do retire and start drawing on the gov't. sponsored ponzy scheme called SS, part of what you draw is reduced by a payment directly to Medicare. For my wife and I, this year it's nearly $200/mo.(actual amount each is a bit over $90), plus my health insurance premium. But, we can't do without it. The part that really irritated me was when I retired a few years ago, the portion paid by my insurance company went down by 80% since Medicare kicked in, but my premiums didn't change. I've questioned them repeatedly as to why, their answer is to ignore the letter and the question...which is what I figured they would do. They can't drop me since I'm a retired State employee and they're under a State contract and have been for years. The only good thing about the coverage is it also includes prescriptions as well with a max copay of $35, plus we have yet to pay for anything associated with a hospital stay.

In the end, if the healthcare issue brings costs down to the general public I'm all for it as long as we don't lose any coverage, either in quality or quantity. With my wife's health issues it could be financially devastating. When I'm told I can keep what I have, I question it simply because the employer will see a way out of subsidizing their employees and will cut back in that area. A new plan may not have all the benefits of the former one, and I for one can't afford to have anything less at this point. Time will tell, just hope this story has a "happy ending."

[G-Man]

Its not just the hospitals, look at your next claim statement.  When providers accept 50% of what they bill as full payment for services provided, something is wrong

Physicians are the worst business people and the AMA is the worst organization that you would want on your side, because they are not business people either.  Physicians are forced to accept 50% and many times less than 50% just in order to get on the insurance company panels.  More established physicians can sometimes opt out of these plans, but new docs, with massive loans and overhead can't give up even the 50%.

It's not just the insurance companies rooking the docs, the patients do as well, and THAT is more awful.  Many patients are required to pay co-payments and sometimes a portion of the bill.  A report came out recently that showed that docs actually collect less than half of what the PATIENTS owe them.  That's stealing.  Could you not pay for the shoes you saw in the store.  Could you get away with not paying the mechanic after swapping out a transmission?

Docs aren't the problem in this mess.  They're also being screwed by the gov't (medicare and medicaide) and insurance companies.  They get approvals for procedures, perform them, and then are denied payment.  Try getting that money from the patient 

[JimL]

Docs aren't the problem in this mess.  They're also being screwed by the gov't (medicare and medicaide) and insurance companies.  They get approvals for procedures, perform them, and then are denied payment.  Try getting that money from the patient 

G-Man is right on point with this statement.  My brother-in-law is a Plastic Surgeon and it is shocking to hear what he has to deal with when dealing with Medicare and Medicaid.  He tells me that AT BEST HE BREAKS EVEN.  He has many times considered not accepting Medicare or Medicaid, but can't bear the guilt (and I suspect the negative perception of only doing it for the money) if he turned away people that couldn't have the procedure done any other way.

[RoadKill]

I am not employed, but I pay taxes!All I need to survive is my food stamps ,cash I collect from the Methamphetamine I make and what my prostitutes bring in. I really should get some better lookin ones because my cable t.v. bill is going up unless I cut back to under 500 channels.
All my children (the ones I know of) are doin fine and most of them are still with they Mommas , And they mommas is happy too because of all the  Gov't assistance they gets for havin the little brats around.  I do my part for the economy and the society. All the money I spend each week at wal-mart keeps the corporations rich and I only steal a little bit back (shop lift is all ) when the government lets gasoline get too over priced. I paid TAX on my X-box 360 and I paid THOUSANDS of dollars tax on my Cadillac Denali and yet the worthless cops taking all that tax money wont do anything about my 5000$ boom system stolen out of my Chevy in my own damn drive way ! Then the neighbor's lawn mower threw rocks thru the vinyl skirting on my trailer house and all the cops said is that it's a CIVIL matter( what ever the hell that is! ) ! !  then when I buy a pack of cigarettes for my best HO it cost me like 6 bucks and 4 of that was taxes!  WHAT DO I GET FOR THOSE TAXES? ? ? 

Just when I was about fed up and ready to go some where civilized,like LA or Mexico I noticed that it burned when I pee...
They axed me about insurance and where I was werkin and then sent me in and had a doctor insert a q-tip in places I dont want to talk about. Damn that S*#% HURT ! We need a better WAY!  but the doctor gave a piece of paper and I took it to the pharmacy and they let me pay with my star card. Now it dont burn and I'm gonna send all my girls down there so I dont get it again! Didnt cost me a DIME !

We have to have more of this free health care! IT REALLY WORKS ! after the week I had It is the only thing that kept me from bustin a cap in somebody! SEE? ? There for.... my free health care lowered the crime rate too and kept an honest American from leaving the country !

So stop bitchin and get with the program...drink what ever they tell ya too . Do you really want me wandering around your neighborhood in a bad mood because it burns?  and the next time one of you rich guys wanna be wit 1 of my girlz it will burn for you too! so pay me now...or PAY ME LATER!     

  P.S. Kick in a lil' extra for research too,'cause that Q-tip thing hurts! Gotta be a better way but ya'all are too tight with taxes to find it!

[asfltdncr]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

That comparison doesn't make any sense.A person that does not drive will absolutely never be a driving risk to anyone.On the other hand, a healthy person can develop the need for hospitalization quickly and the facility he goes to has to pick up the tab.  That  in turn will be passed on to the other premium holders. 

[Fathertime]

  Ok, for all those proposing that we go with a national health care system, administered by the people in Washington, let me ask this.
 
  How are we going to pay for all this?

If we are no longer going to ask our employers to cover part of our insurance, to protect free enterprise in America, to make our employers better able to compete in the new Global Market, if we are going to provide medical coverage for every man, woman and child in the country,,,
  How are we going to pay for it all?

[Jeff K]

And either you have auto insurance or you get fined for not having it...

You do not have to have auto insurance. You only HAVE to have auto insurance if you drive a motor vehicle.

I doubt people are going to stand in line to pay "their fair share" of auto insurance even if they do not own a car, just to lower my car insurance.

That comparison doesn't make any sense.A person that does not drive will absolutely never be a driving risk to anyone.On the other hand, a healthy person can develop the need for hospitalization quickly and the facility he goes to has to pick up the tab.  That  in turn will be passed on to the other premium holders. 

You are implying that health care is a right. That is BS. Health care is a service.
Some people don't need auto insurance because they can't afford a car.
Some people live without air conditioning because they can't afford it.
Why should ANYTHING be free?
Health care is not a right. Poor people deserve health care because "I" work hard enough to pay for it?
Maybe I should pay for all their other comfort items too? Bizarre!


Earn your own money
Pay your own way
Is that to much to ask?