Fuel tube

[Alberta Patriot]

I recently changed the air filter on my I/S and ended up with an impossible time to reconnect the fuel tube to the petcock...while trying to reconnect, it disconnected from the right tube at the "T"  so I had to remove the air box to reconnect it. I ended up pulling the petcock out of the tank...connected it to the fuel tube and then carefully slipped the tank over the petcock/screen filter to finish the job...what a pita!!...I think the fuel tube must be too short?? so what length and size is the tubing so I can buy a length locally for the next time I change the filter...also thinking about updating the clamps...they seem a bit loose.
Thanks

[sandy]

I recently sold a Valk with 155K and the original fuel tubing. Removing and replacing the tubes are made easier with very long needle nose pliers. The correct size is (I think) a 7mm diameter. You might find the size in the parts fische of HDL or Partzilla.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Without seeing it, it's hard to say if its too short. But I will say people who have lengthened have had fuel delivery issues. For me a long pair of needle nose pliers with the tank lowered as far as you can will work. It is a pain, but I think it needs to be that way.

[Alberta Patriot]

When I raised the tank at the back to remove the rear vent tube the fuel tube pulled off the petcock so I didn't need to remove it so I dont see how I will be able to re-attach it when I can't get a hand under there  let alone my hand and a needle nose pliers....If I knew the tubing I.D. for sure...I could at least make one up just long enough to work...I don't want this happening as a repeat issue every time... if possible. Maybe braided tube that won't kink with a bit of  an "S" bend in the tubing...?
Thanks

[MarkT]

When I raised the tank at the back to remove the rear vent tube the fuel tube pulled off the petcock so I didn't need to remove it so I dont see how I will be able to re-attach it when I can't get a hand under there  let alone my hand and a needle nose pliers....If I knew the tubing I.D. for sure...I could at least make one up just long enough to work...I don't want this happening as a repeat issue every time... if possible. Maybe braided tube that won't kink with a bit of  an "S" bend in the tubing...?
Thanks

Without seeing it, it's hard to say if its too short. But I will say people who have lengthened have had fuel delivery issues. For me a long pair of needle nose pliers with the tank lowered as far as you can will work. It is a pain, but I think it needs to be that way.

+1 on that.  If you put any bends in the tubing you will find out the hard way as many of us have, the Dragon hates bends in the fuel or vent lines - you will then be removing it after some cussing. I have redesigned my fuel system on Jade several times - the line must be level or downhill with no dips, rises or bends in it, and preferably the same length as OEM.  The fuel line is the first tube to disconnect when pulling the tank, and the last to connect when installing. The other 2 are the vacuum and vent lines which may or may not still be in play depending on other mods. Do not make the line longer or shorter than OEM and it's easier to connect if it's also the OEM diameter.  I made a special extra-long needle nose pliar just for connecting the fuel line, and have found it handy at other times too. The pliar is what reaches in there - not your hand.  In this pic, the longest one I made for the fuel line - petcock connection.  The others, come in very handy when you need them - for me is surprisingly often.  If you don't yet have assorted long pliars with bent tips - maybe take a ride over to Harbor Freight and pick some up. The longest and bent tip models here are from HF.  I'd bet I've pulled my Valk tanks over a hundred times for electrical and fuel mods. Most electrical mods need the tank off. Get used to it if you want to improve your ride.  I've found having the bike at the perfect height with a table lift, to put your work piece at eye level, REALLY makes the work go easier.  I'm constantly raising or lowering the lift while working for that reason.  One thing welding taught me is try not to work out-of-position but put the work in the optimal position - the work quality goes up substantially. So I've made jigs for my manufacturing processes that hold the work in the perfect position. Nice having an electro-hydraulic Snap-On lift - nothing like the right tool!

[Edvalk]

You can slip your hand in form the left side . Trouble is you can see what your doing , I just go by feel. Locate the petcock with your left hand and then grab the gas hose . Mine is easier now that I put a pingle petcock on. The tube on the pingle  is slightly smaller than the gas line makes putting it on  a snap. I wouldn't mess with the length if you did don't go more than a 1/2 inch. The more you take it on and off the easier it gets.

[Alberta Patriot]

Gonna have to borrow some slender hands to replace my "fat sausage finger hands" I guess.
Thanks Everyone

[John Schmidt]

Whatever you end up doing for the fuel line, don't make it over length and always have it running down hill from the petcock to the T. I generally will use long needle nose pliers, slip a block of 2x4 under the back end and engage the fuel line from the right side.

[Alberta Patriot]

With all that fuel above the line it should'nt matter if there is a bit of a kink...unless vapor lock is what sets up in a kinked tube being directly above the hot engine...?

[Blackduck]

I use similar to MarkT's pliers in the middle of the set of 3.
Put the tank back on and fully in place and the hose goes on easy. Clamps are no problem as you can usually slide them by hand and it does not seem to matter if they are not super tight. Never had a leak there.

[The emperor has no clothes]

With all that fuel above the line it should'nt matter if there is a bit of a kink...unless vapor lock is what sets up in a kinked tube being directly above the hot engine...?

Do what you will. But 20,000 members experience says differently.

[Chrisj CMA]

When I raised the tank at the back to remove the rear vent tube the fuel tube pulled off the petcock so I didn't need to remove it so I dont see how I will be able to re-attach it when I can't get a hand under there  let alone my hand and a needle nose pliers....If I knew the tubing I.D. for sure...I could at least make one up just long enough to work...I don't want this happening as a repeat issue every time... if possible. Maybe braided tube that won't kink with a bit of  an "S" bend in the tubing...?
Thanks

Sounds like your first tank removal.  It will be easier next time. BTW, after the secret screw fuel line and vacuum are next, THEN tank vent.  Reverse order for installation

[hubcapsc]

I do it by feel from the left and sometimes squirt a little wd in
the end. If you make a mess with the wd, and make the outside
of the line slippery, it makes things worse instead of better...

I used to use wd as a starter fluid on my Ford 8N until
I got it running better... I'm not in the least afraid of
a minuscule amount of wd residue in my gas line,
ymmv...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

I do it by feel from the left and sometimes squirt a little wd in
the end. If you make a mess with the wd, and make the outside
of the line slippery, it makes things worse instead of better...

I used to use wd as a starter fluid on my Ford 8N until
I got it running better... I'm not in the least afraid of
a minuscule amount of wd residue in my gas line,
ymmv...

-Mike

Lol Mike, same here except sometimes when the fuel line is being stubborn I use some spit on the valve where the hose connects.  The spit is easier than going to get the WD.....Never did ponder what spit in the fuel system would do

[Hook#3287]

.while trying to reconnect, it disconnected from the right tube at the "T"

This is what I'd be concerned with, why did the hose come off the "T" by you're just trying to install the other end onto the petcock.

I just replaced a main fuel line and the two hoses going to the rails from the "T" were on so hard, I broke the plastic "T" trying to remove them. It was pretty brittle.

Even without clamps, that hose shouldn't have come off.  If it has the OEM clamps, should be even less chance of the hose coming off.  They go on the "T" at least a 1/2 inch, probably more.

I would listen to the experience from this board and go with the OEM, or an aftermarket of the same length.

TUBE, FUEL
17701-MZ0-000
$3.49

[MarkT]

I do it by feel from the left and sometimes squirt a little wd in
the end. If you make a mess with the wd, and make the outside
of the line slippery, it makes things worse instead of better...

I used to use wd as a starter fluid on my Ford 8N until
I got it running better... I'm not in the least afraid of
a minuscule amount of wd residue in my gas line,
ymmv...

-Mike

Yep you need some lube on rubber parts frequently. Helps on the fuel line, and I always lube the side cover grommets too, when putting them on.  They go on easy then w/o damage and will last indefinitely.  However I use "wire pulling lube" - soap-based, doesn't hurt rubber, consistency of hand lotion. I think WD-40 is petroleum based which means it eats rubber. I get mine at Grainger but it's at Home Depot and others too.

[Gryphon Rider]

If you need a hand (in this case, literally), send me a PM.  I've had my tank off and on many times.  I might be able to help you out tonight or on the weekend.

[jim@98valkyrie.com]

I've found that using rubbing alcohol with any metal to rubber connections makes things go together a lot easier. Dries fairly quickly and leaves no residue. Cheap too. I like Mark T's ideas as well.

[Alberta Patriot]

If you need a hand (in this case, literally), send me a PM.  I've had my tank off and on many times.  I might be able to help you out tonight or on the weekend.

Hey thanks for the offer...The tank is back in place...like I commented in the first post, I pulled the petcock out of the tank and made the connection and then carefully slipped the tank over the petcock/filter screen...there was a fair bit of fine silty crap in the tank so I will again pull the petcock at the next filter change and see if more comes out...if so I will do a tank liner kit. My son did a '79 Yamaha XS400 with one of these kits...worked great. Back in the day there was no significant amount of "corn syrup" to poison these bikes so no anti-corrosion steps were taken to guard against it.  

Liner Kit Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzYVbCFUu3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphC3oy1mwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hda12k__UWg

[Paladin528]

The length of the fuel line will make no difference unless it is excessively long.  What the owners are experiencing is the fuel line gets a high spot in the run to the "T" fitting.  That high spot gets filled with air and the fuel is then not allowed past.  This issue is easily remidied through proper routing of the line.  (I say easily because it is in theory, in practice, like everything else under the tank it is a pain in the ass).  The run from petcock to T fitting must be straight vertically but can bend horizontally.
If the length were a problem then adding the recommended Dam Marc would be an even bigger issue since it is a rather heavy restriction.
As long as the fuel level remains higher than the carbs and there are no high spots in the fuel line then the flow will fine no matter how long the line is

[Alberta Patriot]

The length of the fuel line will make no difference unless it is excessively long.  What the owners are experiencing is the fuel line gets a high spot in the run to the "T" fitting.  That high spot gets filled with air and the fuel is then not allowed past.  This issue is easily remidied through proper routing of the line.  (I say easily because it is in theory, in practice, like everything else under the tank it is a pain in the ass).  The run from petcock to T fitting must be straight vertically but can bend horizontally.
If the length were a problem then adding the recommended Dam Marc would be an even bigger issue since it is a rather heavy restriction.
As long as the fuel level remains higher than the carbs and there are no high spots in the fuel line then the flow will fine no matter how long the line is

That is what I thought...so no verticle bends to cause vapor lock.
The one other question I had was what is the I.D. of the OEM Tube? so I can just pick up some braided fuel line locally. I would like to replace all 3 tubes and  the clamps.

[Fazer]

I added the Dan Mark with OEM petcock when I desmogged a year ago replacing all the fuel lines with new and taking great care, after being for warned to not vary the total length.  With the fuel shut off in the fuel line, it is exactly the same length as the original fuel line.  I don't remember having any difficulty getting it re-attached to the tank.  Bike fired right up after drawing fuel and I have not had any problems (or hydro lock worries) and I rarely shut the fuel off at the petcock.

[John Schmidt]

I have a Pingle manual petcock, inline filter, and a DanMarc inline with that. It all runs downhill, haven't had a problem with starvation in the nearly ten years it's been in there. Only reason I have the inline filter is because I lengthened the pickup tube on the Pingle to match the OEM unit. I now have approx. the same reserve as the OEM petcock. The extended tube diameter didn't fit inside the Pingle filter, hence the inline filter.

[Bighead]

Gonna have to borrow some slender hands to replace my "fat sausage finger hands" I guess.
Thanks Everyone

I doubt very seriously your hands are larger than mine and I can reconnect the lines with little trouble.

[Gabriel]

I'm not sure I understand all the magic associated with a Valkyrie fuel line?
The design is terrible but it does not escape the laws of physics!
Liquid is self leveling, you could loop a hose from the second story and the level will be exactly the same at both ends, the only consideration here is the added internal friction (resistance to flow) of a line this long.
My fuel line comes out of the tank, loops around down by the alternator, goes through a plastic fuel filter and ends at the t-fitting.
I would say it's a foot longer now and the bike runs perfect every time I ride it, even on reserve.
I'm sure everyone has noticed that there always seems to be air trapped in a clear fuel filter, it does not hurt anything, air is compressible, fuel is not.  
Volume expansion for Gasoline is three time greater than linear, so the tank will have a much greater pressure with heat than the line (if the valve is off) and we would all be better of with a little air in the line.
As the line heats up the trapped air (I'm not convinced its air) provides a cushion. Without any air, fuel expansion will and does push the float open, though it is a very small amount of fuel loss in the bowl.
Peace!
*Coefficient of volume expansion for gasoline is 950 x 10 -6/C°. For the mathematicians among you...

[Blackduck]

Visiting a truck shop today and they had a set of these pliers,
Extra long with a double pivot to keep the movement short.
Need to go shopping

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5yuiwqMnSAhVGImMKHZvVCV0QFgg0MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearwrench.com%2Fpliers%2Fdouble-xr%2Fgearwrench-82006d-45-degree-double-xr-pliers.html&usg=AFQjCNG5qxN8Ot7I5Z-1aKKo90P7yb5DaQ

[hubcapsc]

I'm not sure I understand all the magic associated with a Valkyrie fuel line?
The design is terrible but it does not escape the laws of physics!
Liquid is self leveling, you could loop a hose from the second story and the level will be exactly the same at both ends, the only consideration here is the added internal friction (resistance to flow) of a line this long.
My fuel line comes out of the tank, loops around down by the alternator, goes through a plastic fuel filter and ends at the t-fitting.
I would say it's a foot longer now and the bike runs perfect every time I ride it, even on reserve.
I'm sure everyone has noticed that there always seems to be air trapped in a clear fuel filter, it does not hurt anything, air is compressible, fuel is not.  
Volume expansion for Gasoline is three time greater than linear, so the tank will have a much greater pressure with heat than the line (if the valve is off) and we would all be better of with a little air in the line.
As the line heats up the trapped air (I'm not convinced its air) provides a cushion. Without any air, fuel expansion will and does push the float open, though it is a very small amount of fuel loss in the bowl.
Peace!
*Coefficient of volume expansion for gasoline is 950 x 10 -6/C°. For the mathematicians among you...

It won't do right if you put too much line in there.

-Mike "does that help?"

[Alberta Patriot]

I appreciate all the very good advice, but I am going to insist that...for whatever reason...the tube in my bike is too short...and I have no intention to install a looped section of tube or anything like that, but seriously...just trying to re-attach the line was never going to happen without pulling the petcock and re-attaching it separated from the tank...actually, to be honest, if I had not done that, I would not have discovered the silty crud that was in the tank.
After attempting to re-attach without pulling the petcock several times, and eventually having to pull the air box to re-connect the right hose at the "T" ...I am going to install one that is long enough to prevent this from being an ongoing issue without creating  a problem with vapor lock.
I still have one question...does anyone know the I.D. of the tube. It would be nice to have some on hand for the next time.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm having a hard time visualizing how removing the petcock first was easier. Seems like it would be a lot harder to tighten the petcock on if the fuel line is so short ? As for the diameter, it's been a while but I'm pretty sure I bought 5/8 at Autozone. I'm sure it's actually a millimeter line but that worked fine.

Edit: 5/16 not 5/8

[MarkT]

I'm not sure I understand all the magic associated with a Valkyrie fuel line?
The design is terrible but it does not escape the laws of physics!
Liquid is self leveling, you could loop a hose from the second story and the level will be exactly the same at both ends, the only consideration here is the added internal friction (resistance to flow) of a line this long.
My fuel line comes out of the tank, loops around down by the alternator, goes through a plastic fuel filter and ends at the t-fitting.
I would say it's a foot longer now and the bike runs perfect every time I ride it, even on reserve.
I'm sure everyone has noticed that there always seems to be air trapped in a clear fuel filter, it does not hurt anything, air is compressible, fuel is not.  
Volume expansion for Gasoline is three time greater than linear, so the tank will have a much greater pressure with heat than the line (if the valve is off) and we would all be better of with a little air in the line.
As the line heats up the trapped air (I'm not convinced its air) provides a cushion. Without any air, fuel expansion will and does push the float open, though it is a very small amount of fuel loss in the bowl.
Peace!
*Coefficient of volume expansion for gasoline is 950 x 10 -6/C°. For the mathematicians among you...

I used to argue your theory, and I had vertical loops that dipped down by the alternator too.  The bike wouldn't run.  Gave me a dose of humility. John Schmidt pointed out, the theory is sound but you can't argue with results.  I have no idea how you're getting away with it because Jade gave me a resounding "NO". I don't know what makes the difference.  I had the loop in there so I could have enough line to add a filter - it was a high-flow one, the same one provided by R&M with the belly tank and is still installed but now in the fuel pump delivery line. I tried two configurations with a loop - both had fuel starvation.  Pretty sure it was from an air bubble at the high point, which the tank's head pressure would not push gas past. Made no sense to me.  The bike was then and is now, configured as gravity feed - the fuel pump sends the belly tank fuel back up to the main when needed.

[Gabriel]

The hose must run like this, which is just like the original hose except it is much longer.
If you just try to add a longer hose, it will kink, guaranteed.
It has to go over the brace from the petcock as you can see here, and return below the brace to the T-fitting, I guess it could return back over the brace if there is room, but why would you?
You see the hose right behind the coil, that comes right off the petcock.
I put a piece of split hose on the line because I was concerned about the edge of the alt cover, however it does not touch that cover, so I should remove that split hose...
Something else; This bikes fuel requirement is greater than stock. both the intermediate and main jet size has been increased, 138 and 105...

[Gabriel]

That looks pretty darn sensible to me...so when you raise the tank it just rotates up from the "T"...?
[/quote]

The fuel filter exit (top) hooks right into the T, so it hardly moves, the line on the bottom of the filter comes off the petcock. (the one behind the coil)
This loop is long enough to lift the tank fairly high, I lift the tank and set it back down on a rubber hammer, however I have used a 2x6. There is plenty of room to remove the fuel line @ the fuel valve now.

I find the stock set-up unacceptable for service.   

[Alberta Patriot]

That looks pretty darn sensible to me...so when you raise the tank it just rotates up from the "T"...?

The fuel filter exit (top) hooks right into the T, so it hardly moves, the line on the bottom of the filter comes off the petcock. (the one behind the coil)
This loop is long enough to lift the tank fairly high, I lift the tank and set it back down on a rubber hammer, however I have used a 2x6. There is plenty of room to remove the fuel line @ the fuel valve now.

I find the stock set-up unacceptable for service.   
[/quote]

Sorry...hit the remove button instead of modify button...so no problems with vapor lock I guess if it works for you...I will try that.
BTW I had a good look at an exposed part of the petcock line and it looks like 5/16" to me... so I called Auto Zone for some braided line/clamps and they have it all  in stock.

[Gabriel]

No vapor lock problems here.
I run this filter because the screen on the petcock is inadequate. I had large enough particulate to clog fuel orifices using only the tank sock, which by the way is gone.
I removed the sock because it serves no purpose with an external filter and is not really road side serviceable should you get a load of bad gas. (which I know is unlikely, but still).

My fuel valve is 100% mechanical, I modified the oem valve, so the reserve is not altered. Most after market fuel valves seem to have a shorter reserve tube, which would lower your distance in reserve. 

BTW: The missing sock has/had no impact on the additional line and filter... 

[Alberta Patriot]

No vapor lock problems here.
I run this filter because the screen on the petcock is inadequate. I had large enough particulate to clog fuel orifices using only the tank sock, which by the way is gone.
I removed the sock because it serves no purpose with an external filter and is not really road side serviceable should you get a load of bad gas. (which I know is unlikely, but still).

My fuel valve is 100% mechanical, I modified the oem valve, so the reserve is not altered. Most after market fuel valves seem to have a shorter reserve tube, which would lower your distance in reserve. 

BTW: The missing sock has/had no impact on the additional line and filter... 

All good info...and since I had a bunch of silty crud in the tank that filter is a great idea....Thanks...on my way to Auto Zone

[Gabriel]

I drilled the fittings on the fuel filter you see, it seemed a little small so I used the next drill up to open it some.
Doing this also means it can't be clamped to tightly, personally I like the spring clamps, they don't put too much pressure on the fitting and they don't require re-tightening later on....

Good luck and don't forget to hook up the tank vent hose, though for performance it does not matter if you hook it up or not...

[Gryphon Rider]

All good info...and since I had a bunch of silty crud in the tank that filter is a great idea....Thanks...on my way to Auto Zone

That sounds like a long way to go for a fuel hose and filter.  Great Falls?  Kalispell?

[Alberta Patriot]

All good info...and since I had a bunch of silty crud in the tank that filter is a great idea....Thanks...on my way to Auto Zone

That sounds like a long way to go for a fuel hose and filter.  Great Falls?  Kalispell?

Right you are...Auto Value 

[Alberta Patriot]

I drilled the fittings on the fuel filter you see, it seemed a little small so I used the next drill up to open it some.
Doing this also means it can't be clamped to tightly, personally I like the spring clamps, they don't put too much pressure on the fitting and they don't require re-tightening later on....

Good luck and don't forget to hook up the tank vent hose, though for performance it does not matter if you hook it up or not...

 
Thanks Again...BTW the fuel filter that I bought has barbed ends so it is perfect for the fuel hose.
I couldn't find the right size braided tube so I am going to slide a light weight coil spring over the tube where the tight bend is so it can't kink.