DFW July Meeting - Hold the date for Thursday, July 13. Peaceburger Grapevine

[SideCar]

Taking ideas for locations, ideally centrally located so people across the metromess have an equal opportunity to come enjoy the camaraderie, education and story telling. In addition to other tall tales, we should have stories from Inzane 17 and the wilds of Billings and the routes to and from.

Post up if you're coming as that will also impact where we can fit for the meeting.


Edit: 7:00 Peaceburger - Grapevine
1228 William D Tate Ave
Grapevine, TX  76051

[RainMaker]

Sorry - will be out of town with the better half.  Have fun without me.

[Randal]

Plan on attending.

[Valkpilot]

+ probably

[BnB Tom]

 Mr. Sidecar,

           Knowing that you enjoy airplanes and such.
                                                              Don't forget to watch 8:00pm - The History Channel - this Sunday.

                                                       http://www.history.com/specials/amelia-earhart-the-lost-evidence/amelia-earhart-the-lost-evidence-preview

[Bosman]

I am a definite maybe!

[Valkpilot]

We usually get pretty good turnout at Hacienda Ranch on 121 west of the airport.

Peace Burger in Grapevine is an option.

Po Melvin's in Irving usually draws a crowd.

Hard 8 BBQ in Coppell is an option, but usually very crowded.

I'm a big fan of i Fratelli's pizza.  There's an Irving/Los Colinas location.


C'mon folks, where do you want to eat & meet?  (Emphasis on 'eat'.)

[Capt. Speedo]

We will do pizza or  BBQ
Speedo and Chris

[Houdini]

Peace Burger is quit good - +1

Po Melvin's is always good and very welcoming - +1

Hard eight was good but the line was painful last time - +1

I've had iFratelli's pizza from that location, yummy - +1

I know, I know, not very helpful.

[Six Guns]

Last couple of years working the graveyard shift has curtailed my riding. I'll have to miss due to work requirements. Have a good time and I will see you guys down the road sometime.   

[BnB Tom]

Peace Burger is quit good - +1

Po Melvin's is always good and very welcoming - +1

Hard eight was good but the line was painful last time - +1

I've had iFratelli's pizza from that location, yummy - +1

I know, I know, not very helpful.

Peace Burger -- Great burgers but can be VERY NOISY.

Never been to iFratelli's.

Hey Six Gun.  You coulda/shoulda made the ride Saturday. 
                                                 We could have gotten you home before time to go to work 

[VintageGWs]

Taking ideas for locations, ideally centrally located so people across the metromess have an equal opportunity to come enjoy the camaraderie, education and story telling. In addition to other tall tales, we should have stories from Inzane 17 and the wilds of Billings and the routes to and from.

Post up if you're coming as that will also impact where we can fit for the meeting.

Where will this be? New member looking to meet!

[brew1brew]

Peace Burger  sounds interesting to me,

put me down as a +1. I should be able to make it.

[BnB Tom]

    Sounds like  ..  er .. a .. Looks like Peace Burger holds the place of honor.

                              1228 William D Tate Ave, Grapevine, TX 76051

  Oh.  And by-the-way.  

                               See ya'll there.  

[Randal]

What time do we meet, 7:00? 

Thanks

[SideCar]

Any place that gets Tom out is good by me.
7:00 to eat. Tall tales will begin shortly thereafter.

Peaceburger in Grapevine. https://www.peaceburger.net/

1228 William D Tate Ave
Grapevine, TX  76051

[Wheelman]

+1 possibly 2

[Houdini]

+ 2, possibly 3

[Capt. Speedo]

Speedo and Chris once I get off work.
Speedo

[SideCar]

Just a bump to remind folks it's tonight. Plenty of parking lot so bring your dragons!

[Valkpilot]

The meeting location was a success.  Good food plus good turnout.  I think I counted 13 total.

We had a short discussion on following distance with this handout as reference: http://www.barnettdh.com/Valkfiles/FollowingDistance1.pdf

The chart shows following distances in both feet and car lengths for speeds from 10 MPH to 80 MPH in 5 MPH increments, and for spacing from 1 to 5 seconds from the vehicle you are following.

Some takeaways:

• Under optimum weather and road conditions, 2 seconds is the recommended safe following distance
• Most of us realized we underestimate the correct distance
• Keeping correct spacing on group rides helps keep the group together through stop lights and prevents cars from infiltrating
• In DFW traffic, it's tough to maintain correct distance and still keep cars from coming into your safe zone.
• Maintaining correct distance in front of you may encourage following vehicles to maintain safer distance behind you.
• When passing, pulling ahead the correct following distance before moving back into your lane indicates to the vehicle you passed what you'd like the following distance to be.
• At 60 MPH, taking your eyes off the road for 1 second means you travel almost 1/3 of a football field without looking where you are going.
• Studies show that it typically takes 2.5 seconds of reaction time to engage brakes.  At 60 MPH you can travel about 200 feet before starting to slow your roll.

I enjoyed visiting with all.

[Houdini]

• Under optimum weather and road conditions, 2 seconds is the recommended safe following distance
• Studies show that it typically takes 2.5 seconds of reaction time to engage brakes.  At 60 MPH you can travel about 200 feet before starting to slow your roll.

So, we should stay back 2 seconds but it takes 2.5 seconds to engage brakes; are you trying to get us all killed.   

[BnB Tom]

The meeting location was a success.  Good food plus good turnout.  I think I counted 13 total.

We had a short discussion on following distance with this handout as reference: http://www.barnettdh.com/Valkfiles/FollowingDistance1.pdf

The chart shows following distances in both feet and car lengths for speeds from 10 MPH to 80 MPH in 5 MPH increments, and for spacing from 1 to 5 seconds from the vehicle you are following.

Some takeaways:

• Under optimum weather and road conditions, 2 seconds is the recommended safe following distance
• Most of us realized we underestimate the correct distance
• Keeping correct spacing on group rides helps keep the group together through stop lights and prevents cars from infiltrating
• In DFW traffic, it's tough to maintain correct distance and still keep cars from coming into your safe zone.
• Maintaining correct distance in front of you may encourage following vehicles to maintain safer distance behind you.
• When passing, pulling ahead the correct following distance before moving back into your lane indicates to the vehicle you passed what you'd like the following distance to be.
• At 60 MPH, taking your eyes off the road for 1 second means you travel almost 1/3 of a football field without looking where you are going.
• Studies show that it typically takes 2.5 seconds of reaction time to engage brakes.  At 60 MPH you can travel about 200 feet before starting to slow your roll.

I enjoyed visiting with all.

 Clearly, the above is a lot to absorb.
                     AND it would be impossible to memorize (for me) and put into practice WHILE riding.

  There are more variables on the street nowadays than ever before.
                     Many of which we don't have to deal with in a car but are amplified on a bike!

  Obviously, the information Valkpilot took the time to put together and the use of common sense are important ingredients every rider should use in this crazy world we live in.

[BnB Tom]

  BTW Sidecar (especially Mrs. Sidecar),  here's something to drool over. 

http://www.hannigantrikes.com/products/gtl-sidecar-for-honda-gl1800-gold-wing/

[Valkpilot]

 Clearly, the above is a lot to absorb.
                     AND it would be impossible to memorize (for me) and put into practice WHILE riding.

  There are more variables on the street nowadays than ever before.
                     Many of which we don't have to deal with in a car but are amplified on a bike!

  Obviously, the information Valkpilot took the time to put together and the use of common sense are important ingredients every rider should use in this crazy world we live in.

Hence the simplification of all of it into the so-called "Two Second Rule" which is simply that in optimum conditions you should be at least two seconds behind the vehicle in front of you.  As its rearmost part passes a landmark, count the seconds until your frontmost part passes the same landmark.  Traffic, road, or weather worse?  Extend the number of seconds.

I just wanted to show what that looks like in actual distances.

[Valkpilot]

• Under optimum weather and road conditions, 2 seconds is the recommended safe following distance
• Studies show that it typically takes 2.5 seconds of reaction time to engage brakes.  At 60 MPH you can travel about 200 feet before starting to slow your roll.

So, we should stay back 2 seconds but it takes 2.5 seconds to engage brakes; are you trying to get us all killed.    

Hey, I don't make the rules, I just report the facts, ma'am.

And to clarify one of the facts, 90% of the population can get on the brakes in 2.5 seconds or less.  Alert drivers can react in 1 second.

"As an integral part of the stopping sight distance, a value for the brake reaction time must be assumed. Extensive research has shown that 90% of the driving population can react in 2.5 seconds or less."

As I've said before, riding with the clutch and brake levers covered can cut another 0.1 to 0.2 seconds off reaction time.  I'll take a 20% improvement off of one second when I'm travelling 88 feet per second.

As Tom states above, common sense must prevail.

[Houdini]

• Under optimum weather and road conditions, 2 seconds is the recommended safe following distance
• Studies show that it typically takes 2.5 seconds of reaction time to engage brakes.  At 60 MPH you can travel about 200 feet before starting to slow your roll.

So, we should stay back 2 seconds but it takes 2.5 seconds to engage brakes; are you trying to get us all killed.    

Hey, I don't make the rules, I just report the facts, ma'am.

And to clarify one of the facts, 90% of the population can get on the brakes in 2.5 seconds or less.  Alert drivers can react in 1 second.


As I've said before, riding with the clutch and brake levers covered can cut another 0.1 to 0.2 seconds off reaction time.  I'll take a 20% improvement off of one second when I'm travelling 88 feet per second.

When I took the rider safety course my teacher kept slapping my hands because I keep two fingers on the brake and clutch levers, a habit I developed back in my motocross days.  Her reasoning was the brake or clutch could be accidentally engaged if you keep the levers covered.  I almost always have two fingers on the clutch and brake levers and my thumb on the horn button if in heavy traffic.

[Valkpilot]

When I took the rider safety course my teacher kept slapping my hands because I keep two fingers on the brake and clutch levers, a habit I developed back in my motocross days.  Her reasoning was the brake or clutch could be accidentally engaged if you keep the levers covered.  I almost always have two fingers on the clutch and brake levers and my thumb on the horn button if in heavy traffic.

Yes, MSF will not teach you to cover brake and clutch and rap your knuckles and fail you if you persist.

But many, many credible experts recommend it as a practice for riding in traffic because of the reduction in reaction time.

Once I passed, I did it my way forever after.

[Randal]

Thank you Valkpilot for taking the time to put together the Following Distances chart and for the physical copy.  Enjoyed the evening.

[SideCar]

Definitely good info and a reminder. I, too, when I'm in heavy or erratic traffic am covering the front brake to cut down reaction time. I have enough friction with gloves that I can still accelerate and hold on. It has saved me a number of times, because...I wasn't necessarily following the data in the chart  or, someone pulled in where they shouldn't have or weaved over into my lane on 635, etc.

Good to see everyone come out to the meeting!  Those conversations covered a lot of topics.

[chauffeur]

When I took the rider safety course my teacher kept slapping my hands because I keep two fingers on the brake and clutch levers, a habit I developed back in my motocross days.  Her reasoning was the brake or clutch could be accidentally engaged if you keep the levers covered.  I almost always have two fingers on the clutch and brake levers and my thumb on the horn button if in heavy traffic.

Yes, MSF will not teach you to cover brake and clutch and rap your knuckles and fail you if you persist.

But many, many credible experts recommend it as a practice for riding in traffic because of the reduction in reaction time.

Once I passed, I did it my way forever after.

My MSF training was just the opposite.  The instructor wanted us to cover both. 

I had ten years of riding experience before I took the course.  It was but one of several recommendations I employed after taking the training.   

[Valkpilot]

My MSF training was just the opposite.  The instructor wanted us to cover both. 

I had ten years of riding experience before I took the course.  It was but one of several recommendations I employed after taking the training.   

You're the first I know of with that experience.  Good to know some instructors recognize the value of that habit.

[chauffeur]

My MSF training was just the opposite.  The instructor wanted us to cover both. 

I had ten years of riding experience before I took the course.  It was but one of several recommendations I employed after taking the training.   

You're the first I know of with that experience.  Good to know some instructors recognize the value of that habit.

I attended the MSF course in 2002 or 2003.  Not sure if they have modified their recommendation over the years or if is was at the instructor's discretion back then.   

Interesting, the current basic rider handbook https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/BRCHandbook.pdf discussion on total stopping distance says to "cover the brake controls" when potential traps are spotted. 

[Valkpilot]

I attended the MSF course in 2002 or 2003.  Not sure if they have modified their recommendation over the years or if is was at the instructor's discretion back then.   

Interesting, the current basic rider handbook https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/BRCHandbook.pdf discussion on total stopping distance says to "cover the brake controls" when potential traps are spotted. 

I took it in 2002.  Our instructors rapped our knuckles for that like nuns with rulers to spare.

[BnB Tom]

  I have ridden bikes for many years.  Didn't take the MSF course until I found out my insurance company wanted it.  I think it was around 2008.

  At that time, the instructors DEMANDED students should 'hood' the levers.

Their reasoning was 'the time between recognizing the need for a reaction and the time it actually took for you to move your fingers up to the levers in order to react, could possibly be the difference in life or death'.
  Therefore, there was nothing new for me to learn (fortunately) since that was the way I have ridden most of my life.

Sounds to me like the policy has changed since 2002.

  Personally, hooding the levers depends on my surroundings.  Heavy traffic -- I'm hooding.