Installing Progressive 444's

[MarkT]

Upgrading the 444's on Jade to an extra-heavy duty model as the 4020's were overtaxed even with the 140/200 springs, for my weight (280#), a heavy passenger (180+, NOT wifey she points out), and trailers with high tongue weight (~100#). One of us wants this documented so here goes.

Remove the seat and luggage.

These shocks are the 444-4039 13" model, has 210/250 springs. On the left side, I installed one of the 4 plain bushings provided by Prog., on the lower eye.  I lubed the rubber sleeve first with wire-pulling lube and used a press.  Could have been done with a hammer or any other leverage multiplier. Inserted another smaller bushing inside, I had from the previous install, I think I got from the OEM shocks but that was 2 years ago so might be wrong.  On the right side, used one of the 4 plain bushings provided in the kit and drilled it out using a 9/16" bit with a drill press.  Installed the bushing with the lube and hydraulic press.  

Install the lower mounts first.  This is easiest using a table lift and scissors jack.

With the bike on the lift, and a Black Widow scissors jack under the back of my permanent installed lift adapter, lifted the back of the bike & raised and lowered as needed to move the swingarm and align the top eye.  On the right side, the shock needed to be compressed about 1/4" further with the swingarm full down.  Lubed the rubber mount hole and compressed the spring using a locking strap as fulcrum hooked to the rear bag protector bar and a 1/2" steel 3 ft dowel as lever inserted in the eye.  Once the right shock was installed, the left side aligned and installed easy.  It helps to have plastic deadblow hammers to convince them to slide over the upper pins w/o marring the paint.

I expect to ride with preload at zero most of the time with these 210/250 springs - hope it's not too harsh. It was good with the 140/200 springs at max preload except with a heavy trailer or full-size co-rider.  Have a lot more load capacity for the trailers and big co-riders if needed.

I'm moving the 444-4020's to Deerslayer - replacing the 416's.

[MarkT]

With a test ride I'm concluding I'm not heavy enough for these shocks.  Even with no preload the ride is too harsh.  I have no doubt these 4039's with 210/250 springs will support the really big boys and similar co-riders. The 4020's with 140/200 were great until they seemed to collapse. Jorge explained the springs and dampers are matched; changing just the springs produces bad behavior.  So I plan to go to the 4057 shocks with the 140/200 springs.

[Kunkies]

"....Patience young Skywalker", I would suggest you give them a change to break in a tad. . . 

I installed my 12.5" 444's HD's about 2 years ago.  Also, started on the softest pre-load setting and after the first ride wanted to take them right off; too stiff!  After riding two-up about 8-10 times (wait until you feel how they perform two-up!!), a few week-long trips with full saddlebags, trunk and luggage they started to perform perfectly for my taste.  Now I'm thinking about tightening up the pre-load one turn.  Ultimately, your call. . .

I'm 5' 11", weigh 185 lbs. wet, my passenger/bride is 130 lbs.  1-up sag is ~1/2 inch, 2-up sag is 1 inch.  I have a 2000 GT1500CT or Valkyrie Tourer.

IMHO, you won't find a better shock for our Valks than the 444

[MarkT]

"....Patience young Skywalker", I would suggest you give them a change to break in a tad. . .  

I installed my 12.5" 444's HD's about 2 years ago.  Also, started on the softest pre-load setting and after the first ride wanted to take them right off; too stiff!  After riding two-up about 8-10 times (wait until you feel how they perform two-up!!), a few week-long trips with full saddlebags, trunk and luggage they started to perform perfectly for my taste.  Now I'm thinking about tightening up the pre-load one turn.  Ultimately, your call. . .

I'm 5' 11", weigh 185 lbs. wet, my passenger/bride is 130 lbs.  1-up sag is ~1/2 inch, 2-up sag is 1 inch.  I have a 2000 GT1500CT or Valkyrie Tourer.

IMHO, you won't find a better shock for our Valks than the 444

Naa.  I'm gonna eat a lot of donuts and fried junk and put on 100# so the shocks are right.

"Young Skywalker".  20 years on multiple Valks, Darth - not your 5 on one.  Doubt you are positioned to be my mentor.

Reread my post. My issue is matching the load to the shock capacity. Not whether the 444 is a good shock.  Prog. makes several versions of the 444.  You don't mention which model you have, or it's spring rate. But the Shock called "HD" you describe is likely the 4020 which has 105/150 springs. (It's stamped on the spring). Per Progressive this shock is "heavy duty" only on a Harley. It's "light duty" on a Valkyrie. I used that shock first with OEM springs then upgraded to 140/200 springs, installed Aug 2015. The 4020 with 140/200 springs were excellent for awhile until they collapsed over a year later and now with max preload bottom out with a heavy co-rider or heavy trailer.  Most of the time I ride solo but occasionally have a back seater and often haul heavy trailers. I have other issues complicating things - tried 2 different spring rates with the same damper which was wrong per Progressive. That led me to the 444-4039 with 210/250 springs - "Ultra Heavy Duty". These have very little cushioning with my solo weight while set at zero preload; ride like a hardtail. Unacceptable.  I believe my correct shock is the 444-4057 with 140/200 springs.

No such thing as a "GT1500CT". You have a GL1500CT.  So do I - 2 of them in fact, as well as 2 Standards, the 3 pictured with Progressive suspension.

[Hook#3287]

Ha, MarkT needs a mentor like DDT needs to get out more and ride

Thanks for the report, should help when I upgrade my I/s rears 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ha, MarkT needs a mentor like DDT needs to get out more and ride

Thanks for the report, should help when I upgrade my I/s rears 

I know most here prefer Progressives as an upgrade. I believe I am going to go with Works Performance.

[Jess from VA]

Ha, MarkT needs a mentor like DDT needs to get out more and ride

Thanks for the report, should help when I upgrade my I/s rears  

I know most here prefer Progressives as an upgrade. I believe I am going to go with Works Performance.

Me too Rob.  After Progressive sells a bazillion 440s with a lifetime warranty (for big money), and they all are destined to break at some point, and then they dump 440s for other models and won't rebuild 440s anymore, and want to claim the 444s don't fit my bike (and apparently go out of their way to ensure they will not directly bolt onto my bike).... well, they can kiss my ass forever.  

Besides, anyone who names their business progressive is on my crap list to begin with.  

[Kunkies]

MartT, my intention was not to insult, rather I was trying to be funny, e.g., the quotes and focus on the word patience, have you seen Star Wars?  In no way did I need or want to position myself as your mentor.  I would humbly submit you accept feedback here with positive intent.

I'm on my 4th Valk', have been riding for 30+ years, I've owned 12 bikes and cherish the 5 years I've had on this forum.

Please accept my apologies, thanks for your understanding.

[MarkT]

Besides, anyone who names their business progressive is on my crap list to begin with.  

Now that's funny.  But they had the name first.  The left stole it.

Meanwhile I'll keep my receipts and make them honor the warranty.  They have been helpful in the past.  They used to have a Sr Tech who hung out here and the other boards and gave tech help online, around 15 years or so ago.  They helped with my 416's.  So we'll see...

MartT, my intention was not to insult, rather I was trying to be funny, e.g., the quotes and focus on the word patience, have you seen Star Wars?  In no way did I need or want to position myself as your mentor.  I would humbly submit you accept feedback here with positive intent.

I'm on my 4th Valk', have been riding for 30+ years, I've owned 12 bikes and cherish the 5 years I've had on this forum.

Please accept my apologies, thanks for your understanding.

I took your comments at apparent face value.  I was actually posting to share what I just learned to benefit others - not soliciting advice.  I have not seen any posts explicitly addressing spring rates against rider weights in recent years so thought my venture there could be useful.  And also there was a recent thread where the OP was asking what had to be done to make the 444's fit on the Valk, and apparently upset the actual answer wasn't posted. So I posted it after just now fitting another set to Jade.

[Hook#3287]

Ha, MarkT needs a mentor like DDT needs to get out more and ride

Thanks for the report, should help when I upgrade my I/s rears 

I know most here prefer Progressives as an upgrade. I believe I am going to go with Works Performance.

I put a set of Progressives (Don't know the model as they were giving to me for working on a buddies bike when he bought 11.5" ones.) but they made a big diff in the handling and comfort of that bike.  I also put a set of air Progressives on  another that have served me well.   When the time comes for the I/S to get an upgrade, I'll check with ya.