Shift 1st->2nd clunky

[OdentonValkyrie]

Hello All -

Anyone else notice that the shift from 1st to 2nd seems to be clunky (for lack of better term), not nearly as smooth as the other upshifts shifts?  I also have a Victory Vision and a Honda Stateline (vt 1300), and both of those seem to be smoother from 1st to 2nd when I preload just a bit.  I just can't seem to get it right on the Valk.  Other upshifts to the higher gears are very smooth - just 1st->2nd is clunky.  I really don't think anything is wrong with the bike (may be user error??)...Just wondering if anyone else is having a similar experience.

It's a 2014 with 6k on the clock....Honda GN4 oil (changed at about 3k - didn't seem to make a difference)

Thanks...

[allhans4]

It's one of a medley of Goldwing sounds -- like transmission whine and valve tick -- that I call "The Sounds of Freedom."

I wouldn't worry about it.   

[Bobvalk]

Oden, I think they all do it to some degree. After you've owned the bike a while, you'll take off in second gear most of the time on flat terrain. This is not hard on the clutch at all if done correctly.

[JimC]

you'll take off in second gear most of the time on flat terrain. This is not hard on the clutch at all if done correctly.

Bob,
I have  hard time wrapping my head around that statement.
I agree that once in a while it won't hurt it, but on a regular basis I would think it is not the best practice.
You are not only slipping the clutch mpre, but you are also lugging the motor. Mr. Honda really knew what they were doing when they built these machines, I think I will default to their gearing recommendations.

But it is your bike.

Jim

[Pete]

On most vehicles the 1st to 2nd shift is the widest ratio jump in the transmission and makes the most noise (clunk) for that reason.

[Robert]

While I have found that the 1/2 shift can sometimes be clunky. I found a way that makes it much better is pull the clutch in and shift so the clutch is only slightly disengaged in one movement. So its a real quick shift into gear and the clutch lever is only pulled in a small amount. The bike basically doesn't require you to pull the clutch to shift. Its almost like preloading the shifter but on these bikes if you preload the shifter to much it shifts without the clutch being pulled. Its so quick that it goes into gear and is just about synchronized with the engine. So no clunk, I have gotten good enough with this technic that I can shift smoothly and quietly so that there is no perceivable noise or clunk while going into any gear. Sometimes I miss and get a clunk but most of the time its totally silent and smooth. I found it by using the preload method and just pulling the clutch handle only slightly and bam, went into get quickly and quietly.

[Bill Havins]

[snip]...pull the clutch in and shift so the clutch is only slightly disengaged in one movement.....I found it by using the preload method and just pulling the clutch handle only slightly....[snip]

So, by putting just enough pressure on the shifter, the clutch "becomes a paddle shifter"?  I'm not disputing what you've posted; I certainly don't know or have an opinion.

So, what potential is there for damage to the transmission and/or clutch using the "clutch-paddle-shifter" technique (henceforth I'll refer to this as the "Robert-O-Matic").

Bill

[Valkpilot]

Hello All -

Anyone else notice that the shift from 1st to 2nd seems to be clunky (for lack of better term), not nearly as smooth as the other upshifts shifts?  I also have a Victory Vision and a Honda Stateline (vt 1300), and both of those seem to be smoother from 1st to 2nd when I preload just a bit.  I just can't seem to get it right on the Valk.  Other upshifts to the higher gears are very smooth - just 1st->2nd is clunky.  I really don't think anything is wrong with the bike (may be user error??)...Just wondering if anyone else is having a similar experience.

It's a 2014 with 6k on the clock....Honda GN4 oil (changed at about 3k - didn't seem to make a difference)

Thanks...

They like to be shifted with authority.  Don't be gentle and you may find it seems smoother.

[Robert]

[snip]...pull the clutch in and shift so the clutch is only slightly disengaged in one movement.....I found it by using the preload method and just pulling the clutch handle only slightly....[snip]

So, by putting just enough pressure on the shifter, the clutch "becomes a paddle shifter"?  I'm not disputing what you've posted; I certainly don't know or have an opinion.

So, what potential is there for damage to the transmission and/or clutch using the "clutch-paddle-shifter" technique (henceforth I'll refer to this as the "Robert-O-Matic").

Bill

"Robert-O-Matic"   

There is no potential, since you are not really doing anything different than shifting the bike. I would say its more like a synchronized dance. If there is any noise or clunk then its not really done correctly. There have been a few times that it slid into gear so smoothly I didn't think I shifted. You still use the clutch you just dont let the rotating parts slow down and mismatch speeds to much so as to get the clunk. I have gotten familiar with it so I know I can pull the clutch in about 1/2 inch and hit the shifter and go into gear. The clutch is pulled just enough to allow a small amount of slip so when you put it into the next gear it meshes smoothly. To quick on the shifter and you get a clunk from not releasing the power or to slow and you get a clunk from the rotation mismatch.

Its at this point of shifting perfection that allows the bike and rider to become one in the zen of shifting. 

Sorry Bill couldn't resist.

I can kind of equate it to a car when shifting you can change gears without using the clutch by making sure you keep a slight pressure on the shifter and keep trans and engine synced. The gear shift lever slides into gear smoothly.

Oh it annoys me no end to be stopped and go into first and get a clunk, I know this is normal but to me any noise is generating wear, so less noise less wear. Its just my upbringing.

[Bill Havins]

I have been really surprised by the "clunks" of my transmission.  I visited with the service manager at my dealer's for about twenty minutes one day, asking how best to shift my Valkyrie.  Since that time I never start the bike with the transmission in neutral if the engine is cold; shifting into first with the engine cold (and running) makes me cringe - Oh, my!  What a clunk!  It feels like it's going to tear the bottom out of the transmission.

When the engine is warm, shifting from neutral to first is not quite as traumatic, but it still "clunks."  I tend to shift to neutral if I get caught at a red light (unless I know it will change soon).  But shifting to first is never really pleasant.

For me shifting from first to second, or vice-versa, has to be done at the right point in the power band for the shift to happen without a "clunk."  I'm going to start using the Robert-O-Matic and see what happens.

Bill

[OdentonValkyrie]

Thanks for all the feedback! Based on what's been posted, I'm convinced my bike is normal.   I'm also going to try the Robert-O-Matic method next time I'm out.

Thanks again!

[Bill Havins]

I had occasion to try out the Robert-O-Matic technique today.  Two sessions of in-town to highway speeds kinds of riding.

As I consciously "worked" the technique I realized that I had been doing this all along when I was wanting to "move right along."  The technique works quite well when shifting up from second, third, or fourth.  I found I really had to have the engine revved to the right spot in the power band to make a smooth-like-an-automatic first-to-second shift.

If I shifted "lazily" from one gear to the next things were not-so-smooth.

Downshifting is another issue.  I like to ease the clutch out as I engage a lower gear.  The Robert-O-Matic technique made me feel like I was riding a Formula 1 race car (I expected to see bursts of flames coming out my exhaust pipes as the clutch engaged).  I didn't care for it much at all.

So, Robert-O-Matic it is for up-shifts (when I want to be s-m-o-o-t-h), and easing-out-the-clutch it is for down-shifts.

Hope you are safe, guys!  Florida ain't gonna be fun for a few days with Irma coming in.

Bill

[Robert]

Bill glad you liked it for upshift, but as you get used to it you will find any rpm works well. It really is a quick shift up if you do it right. Downshift is another matter, I have occasionally made it silent and smooth but have not really found a good technique for that yet.

[Smithim]

Oh how I hate 1st to 2nd shift on this bike, it's dreadfully clunky for me. When I first had the bike I would very often get a mis-shift and end up in neutral if I was being aggressive.

I've tried to preload, tried to mess with the timing of when the clutch is pulled a little/a lot/all the way in before shifting. I've tried not preloading or touching the gear lever at all until it was time to shift. I do notice sometimes I get a smooth 1st into 2nd gear action, and sometimes I get a 1st into clunk into 2nd gear. That is always with the one purposeful foot motion, not multiple kicks of the lever. (My valk is at 6400 miles right now).

Ultimately I'm always conscious of shifting from 1st into 2nd as this bike is just finicky about it. I love the bike, don't get me wrong at all. I've mentioned before I came from sport bikes that had gearboxes that put the Valks to shame. I don't miss the sport bikes, do miss having a 6th gear. Wonder how that new BMW shifts...