darksides ramblings

[motorose]

i was doing some research to darkside my yami again. the first time i tried it, either i had a bad tire or i threw a weight.

so i'm surfing a royal star board and i'm in the darkside forum. there are a number of people that post it is not safe. there are some darksiders that are saying that it is safe and they reference our moderator himself, daniel. there are posts with links to his website with comments like 'see darksideing is just fine, he's been doing it for X number of miles.'

thought that everyone would get a kick out of that.

yes i have a new tire that i'm going to try on the yami. my valk doesn't need a tire yet, but it will soon if i have anything to do with it

[godfire]

I have peeked behind the darkside curtain a couple of times.... Still haven't pulled the trigger.
We have even considered it for Sly's V-Star.

My findings were much the same as yours.  There seems to be to camps.

Camp A: You will crash and burn and will go straight to  .

Camp B: It's the best thing since sliced bread 

Good luck

[motorose]

i can see both sides. and i did have a bad first experience, however, c/ts are cheap and im going to try it again on the yami. kim love her c/t on her valk. its just a matter of time till i can do it on others in the garage

[Houdini]

+1 on the sliced bread ... I plan on never going back to a bike tire.  I have over 14,000 on my CT and I haven't crashed and burned yet.

[godfire]

+1 on the sliced bread ... I plan on never going back to a bike tire.  I have over 14,000 on my CT and I haven't crashed and burned yet.

Now Chuck, we all know you lost a pinion..... Bet is was because of the extra stress on the dilithium crystals caused by that car tire. (sorry couldn't resit)

[Jess from VA]

I am by no means an expert here.  Riding 40 years, many bikes, GTT on my Interstate since Spring (and one going on my other IS shortly).  I am sold on darkside on the valk.  I think it is a good tire on a big heavy bike, which probably includes the Venture.  I am not so sure it would work as well on a much lighter bike like  VStar 1100, etc.   If I was considering it for a bike like that, I'd hunt up their forums and ask.  Obviously, since many fewer people do it on smaller bikes, the naysayers will probably all chime in.  But I would be interested to hear from any that had actually tried it.

[volvobob]

  I have run a goodyear triple tread for the last 10000 miles and it is great out on the road and around town weather doing 10 miles an hour or high triple digits.  One thing I do not like about it is the very slow speed handling of the bike with the tire and riding across dirt like your front yard or backyard.  So to me its just a trade off, 100 dollars new car tire no slow speed handling but last a long time OR spend over 200 and get slow speed handling that will last about 9000 miles.   I have talked with other riders that have tried a narrower rear tire a 195 versus my 205 and they said it is alot better for slow speed handling, very much like a motorcycle tire it was just GREAT.  So my next one will be the narrower tire if i can find one.  Just my 2 cents.  Until we mett again  volvobob 

[SideCar]

My first car tire burst into flames, causing me to wreck and end up in the morgue, so I'm pretty dead set against them.  Wait. NO. That wasn't me. That was what several folks told me would happen back in 2002 when I put the first one on. 

I echo some of what Jess said.  If you want the best handling on a variety of road surfaces (especially if it includes rutted 2 laners), go with the bike tire.  IMO, most folks I've met who are riding a Valk are not regularly trying to use all the handling available (unlike some of the sport bikers I used to ride with) and the bike tire isn't going to be the difference in how fast or how comfortable they are in a turn.  My experience is that at most speeds, you can very easily get along with the car tire and I like the comfort of the car tire and even though the bike tires last considerably longer now, I still like the extra mileage of a less expensive car tire.  Tastes great and less filling.  That was all on two wheels.

Now, with 3 wheels, the car tire shines through even more in the mileage and traction area.  That may be harder on the rear end, but I'll just have to live with that. Everything about 3 wheels is harder on the bike, but my 3 wheel SUV has taken us into a lot of fun times.

Now, the question that haunts me more than tire choice - when it comes time to replace the HD 2 wheeler in the not too distant future, is it Rocket III or a dual sport???

[Disco]

I followed Patron's lead when in May it was time to replace the rear on my late, great, 'wing.  (He has tens of thousands of DS miles on lots of different tires on his Interstate and Goldwing and recommends narrower over wider.)  The OEM had a big flat spot at 6,700 miles, and could have gone some more, but we were leaving the next day for the Hill Country Ride.  I rode his DS 'wing for 10-15 miles and decided I would rather have the "I wonder if I'm really going to like this" looping through my mind than the "I sure hope I don't have to go tire shopping this weekend" alternative.  The Dunlop Winter Tread Run-Flat was 5mm narrower than stock, and I challenged ANYONE who raised an eyebrow to ride it and tell me they could tell it wasn't a motorcycle tire.  Of course, I never got any takers from those who were most negative.  I would quote to them one of my patches: "Don't believe everything you know."

It was around $200 if memory serves, but the bottom line to me was its performance.  No additional steering inputs required.  Quiet.  No more "mind of its own" than a motorcyle tire.  AND, when the bike was totaled, the tire had 7,000 miles on it and looked almost new.  

I wish they made one in 195 for the Valkyrie.  I'd do it in a minute.

[Disco]

is it Rocket III or a dual sport???

That's easy.  Delete "or".  Insert "and".   

[Houdini]

is it Rocket III or a dual sport???

I'd learn towards the Rocket if I was forced into your situation.

[RainMaker]

25,000 on my Goodyear Triple Tread so far and it looks good for another 10-15K.

[Houdini]

Now Chuck, we all know you lost a pinion..... Bet is was because of the extra stress on the dilithium crystals caused by that car tire.

Oh yeah, I forgot.  Plus

1. I risk the tire going supernova on right turns
2. My insurance company is going to drop me
3. Sea Foam no longer cleans my fuel system 

My whole world has turned upside down.  On the bright side we have cookies ... on the dark side.   

[BnB Tom]

       
You say tomato, I say toe-ma-toe

   Without controversy we have complacency..  with complacency we have no communication.. with no communication ..

                                                             you ride alone.
                                     

[SideCar]

Gotta love Dave's answer, but no room for 3.

And, I think I'm going to switch from Seafoam in my car tire to using Marvel Mystery Oil in it to cool the air and rubber.

[Disco]

Gotta love Dave's answer, but no room for 3.

Rocket III for use in town.  Dual-Sport for use in the county.  Problem solved.  Again.   

+1 on the Marvel Mystery Oil.  It's a pretty shade of red and smells good, too!  In fact, I'd bet it would act just like dyna-beads, only quieter and cooler.   

[SideCar]

 

[Old Geezer Richard]

 Hey Rose , I decided to go with a C/T mainly because I was curious about using a C/T and because of the cost of the M/C tires for my Valk was insane ..... I chose the Michelin Pilot because of its wet weather qualities and I have not been disappointed at all .... sure it was a different handling and it had its own persona but again I have been very impressed with using a C/T and never will I use  a/C tire again and this my choice and the wifey is also pleased with the handling and again this all a personal choice ..... matter of fact ROSE  the M/T to me handles very nicely thank you tooo much even riding the three sisters roads ..... and kudos on the the C/T on wet roads as far as grass and gravel its the front tire that makes me pucker ..... now the cornering and wanting to stay up rite , well thats just a trade off and now after 12,000 miles it still looks bran new , its just second nature to me without having to be on guard all the time .... bottom line is I luv it and I am a Darksider for good .... nuf said        

[Daniel Meyer]

Heh...not sure I would claim it is "safe"...motorcycling is inherently unsafe...but it's at least as safe as running those craptastic thin skins they sell for the back of the Valkyrie...

My favorite quote from my darkside page:

Him: "You know you're a test pilot don't you?"
Me: "Yes. Yes I do."
Him: "That doesn't bother you?"
Me: "No, not at all. I've got news for you. I LIKE being a test pilot."
Him: "But...anything could happen."
Me: "Actually, I'm counting on that. It's why I ride."

Anything could happen.

I'll see you on the road...

[B]

Darkside ... Maybe next time. I was convinced & planned on giving it a go.  A catastrophic brg failure wiped my E3 while passing thru Az & I couldn't get the dealer to mount a CT for me... Maybe next round.

[franco6]

the dark side is tempting me for the future rear change just for the traction/breaking advantage .the question is what psi ,a higher # hard to corner or a lower # allowing  more supleness.?   
the dunlop e3 has 15000 miles  and looks good for another 10 ,judging from the board its somewhat unusual.before inzane  i ll be needing one

[Valkpilot]

the dark side is tempting me for the future rear change just for the traction/breaking advantage .the question is what psi ,a higher # hard to corner or a lower # allowing  more supleness.?   
the dunlop e3 has 15000 miles  and looks good for another 10 ,judging from the board its somewhat unusual.before inzane  i ll be needing one

My own experience is that higher pressures are better.  At lower pressures I get a squirmy feeling in turns and the tracking of road surface imperfections is more noticeable.  I run a Goodyear Assurance TT (had a Toyo Proxes before) at 40 psi.  I think there are three key elements to DS success:

• Directional, symmetrical tread (If you draw a line down the center of the tread the left side should be a mirror image of the right side)
• Relatively high air pressure (38 - 40 psi seems to be about right)
• Stiffen up the shocks some to impart more force to the tire sidewall

Other opinions vary, of course, but using these guidelines I've had a great DS exerience.

[Houdini]

the question is what psi ,a higher # hard to corner or a lower # allowing  more supleness.?

I prefer my dark side at 42 - 44 PSI.  It's not any harder to lean into turn and it definitely straightens out of the corner faster.  I find I have developed a new handling style with a dark side; I push on the low side bar instead of pulling the high side. 

I agree with Valkpilot, low pressure feels squishy in corners and follows road snakes like you are on rails.  What you should do is try various pressures and find which works better for you -- some folks will tell you that lower pressures are better.

[Thalas'shaya]

B, I ran into some similar trouble in Flagstaff, AZ trying to get a car tire mounted.  My MC tire had delaminated out in the middle of the reservation between Page and Tuba City, AZ. I pestered the good people of Flagstaff enough that the owner of the Victory dealership finally, reluctantly, allowed that if I could buy a car tire, he had a friend who did bike work and would maybe mount it for me.  So, if you ever find yourself in or around Flagstaff and in need of a good wrench, I know one.  He almost asked me to sign a waiver claiming I wouldn't sue him if I went supernova in a right turn, but I told him I was well aware of the neck-breaking risk and he agreed to do the work.

Yeah.  Darksiding sometimes makes you feel like a salmon swimming upstream.

[Jess from VA]

BTW, for folks who might have diffculty finding a place to mount a bike tire (or other non-standard stuff), I have found if you offer them a signed waiver of liability, they will do the work.  Use yours, not theirs (if they have one).  Such waivers are easy to find in standard form on-line.  You just fill in the info, explain what it's for and customize it to your purpose.   You waive any liability claim against the business and accept responsibility for the way the bike will handle with a car tire (name it on the form).  You do not waive any liability for an improper install of the tire to the rim or the wheel on the bike (just like you wouldn't do for a bike tire).  If they have a tech that can do the work, but management (or the service chief) won't allow it on policy, give them somthing to put in the drawer, and they often will do the work.   This is a conversation better held in person than on the phone. 

[Houdini]

I find I have developed a new handling style with a dark side; I push on the low side bar instead of pulling the high side.

Doh!  I typed that backwards; I pull on the high side instead of pushing on the low side.