23% say health care is most important?

[Jeff K]

So then why is this a crisis?   

Thirty-eight percent (38%) of voters say deficit reduction is the top priority for Washington to obtain while 23% say health care is most important. Among Democrats, health care is most important. Among Republicans and unaffiliated voters, health care is fourth on the priority list.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[Chrisj CMA]

Jeff its a crisis because its the crown jewel for the left to control (finally) such a large portion of the economy and our lives with it.  Its not about healthcare its about control and power.  Once they pass whatever bill they pass you will not hear an end to the gigantic claims of how many people have been rescued by this government.

Its really a shame how many people in our country are now looking to be government free loaders.  Thats exactly what "president" obama is counting on more and more free loaders to worship him for his deep pockets.  If you watch the news they interviewed people standing in line waiting to get their stimulous checks...they called it "Obama Money"  when asked where did they think the money came from, they could only say "it comes from Obama, we love him"

[Scanner]

And King Obama is putting molecular sized robots into the flu vaccine to make the republicans and rednecks  explode on his command!  It's TRUE!!! I got the email!!!  Darn liberal media just won't report it.

He knows if only he can get a public insurance option (like Medicare) in the Healthcare bill he can have total control over the universe!!!  It's obviously his and the demoncrats plan!!!  Then we'll have black helicopters EVERYWHERE!!!!!

[Chrisj CMA]

And King Obama is putting molecular sized robots into the flu vaccine to make the republicans and rednecks  explode on his command!  It's TRUE!!! I got the email!!!  Darn liberal media just won't report it.

He knows if only he can get a public insurance option (like Medicare) in the Healthcare bill he can have total control over the universe!!!  It's obviously his and the demoncrats plan!!!  Then we'll have black helicopters EVERYWHERE!!!!!

Obama isint the King....hes a puppet, just doing what hes told, and we are to think he is the savior of the world.......call me nuts, thats fine....just watch in the next two years....I would gladly be wrong, believe me, but I think you are going to see some crap that you never thought youd see in this country

[Scanner]

So, if we do get the public option that allows states to opt out, will you be pushing for Florida to opt - out?

[Chrisj CMA]

who can I push?

This is the bottom line.  We cannot recover from the trillions in debt with continuing deficit spending on into oblivion.  It just cant go on. 

Either there is a HUGH change in plans or there will be an economic collapse and the government will hold all the marbles. 

For now, dont look like its gonna happen, this medical take over will cost another trillion plus in deficit spending, so how can that be a good thing? 

You tell me

[Scanner]

Will you write your senators - US and State & your representative to opt out of having a public insurance option?

You don't want that public option correct? You feel the for-profit insurance co's have your best interest in mind?

You don't care if your kids or grandchildren have insurance, correct?  It should only be available to those who can afford it, right?

Last year my wife had Breast Cancer - $24,000 per chemo treatment.

I had a stent put in my heart last month.  The operation & a day and a half in the hospital - $72,800

Obviously, without insurance that could kinda screw up a guys budget....

Who lives or dies shouldn't be based on who can afford it, or, if you have insurance, whether the insurance company feels it's a necessary, or cost effective, procedure.

But oh well, I got mine.....

[Sludge]

This is the bottom line.  We cannot recover from the trillions in debt with continuing deficit spending on into oblivion.  It just cant go on. 

Either there is a HUGH change in plans or there will be an economic collapse and the government will hold all the marbles. 

For now, dont look like its gonna happen, this medical take over will cost another trillion plus in deficit spending, so how can that be a good thing? 

You tell me

+1 Chris

The real question I want answered and I havent heard it yet...  Is... how do we get manufacturing back into this country?

Everyone wants to get down on the "rich guys".. "rich corporations"... etc.  However, if we dont create wealth, how do they plan to recover?  Im not in business to lose money or break even.  Im in it to make money.  If we destroy the ability to make money in the country though over regulation and taxation... we are completely lost.   Look at the past 17 years.  NAFTA and other trade deals have past and we have heard that giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the US that Ross Perot forecast.  When are we going to wake up, and get business friendly here and create some wealth in the nation?

[Chrisj CMA]

Will you write your senators - US and State & your representative to opt out of having a public insurance option?

You don't want that public option correct? You feel the for-profit insurance co's have your best interest in mind?

You don't care if your kids or grandchildren have insurance, correct?  It should only be available to those who can afford it, right?

Last year my wife had Breast Cancer - $24,000 per chemo treatment.


I had a stent put in my heart last month.  The operation & a day and a half in the hospital - $72,800

Obviously, without insurance that could kinda screw up a guys budget....

Who lives or dies shouldn't be based on who can afford it, or, if you have insurance, whether the insurance company feels it's a necessary, or cost effective, procedure.

But oh well, I got mine.....

Oh, Im for reform.......we need to lower costs for treatment in sensible ways, we need to put in place mechanisms that allow insurance companies to compete.  We need to chop the heads off of the greedy and unscrupulous lawyers.  We already have a system for those that cannot aford care.  Its called medicare.

At the rate this government is going all of us will be in the boat of not being able to afford it.

Instead we should be lowering the tax burden...paying off the deficit......getting rid of unions and anything else that stands in the way of making America competitive.  Then more and more people should be able to afford medical insurance as the economy grows (oh and by the way send illegal immigrants home) instead of killing any chance of recovery by reckless borrowing and spending and then taxing
to spend some more and then sure why not either just cover illegals or just make them instant citizens regardless if they have criminal records and have been ordered deported many times....oh they are nice now we like them. BS!

The problem with the medical bill isint that its trying to cover poor people.  The problem is its not addressing any of the problems just slathering over it all with a nice thick coat of borrowed money and that wont fly in my book

[Jeff K]

I repeat...
If only 23% of Americans feel health care reform is the top priority... Why is this a crisis? And why must it be done as if it was a crisis?

[Chrisj CMA]

Its a crisis for Obama and the rest of his loonies, thats the only ones its a crisis for

[fudgie]

And King Obama is putting molecular sized robots into the flu vaccine to make the republicans and rednecks  explode on his command!  It's TRUE!!! I got the email!!!  Darn liberal media just won't report it.

He knows if only he can get a public insurance option (like Medicare) in the Healthcare bill he can have total control over the universe!!!  It's obviously his and the demoncrats plan!!!  Then we'll have black helicopters EVERYWHERE!!!!!

Lets see the e-mail....... 

[fudgie]

Who lives or dies shouldn't be based on who can afford it, or, if you have insurance, whether the insurance company feels it's a necessary, or cost effective, procedure.

It already is based on who can afford it. i see it here all the time. folks without insurance or medicaid cannot get the procedures done they need cause they will not get paid or not at all.
Out of a $550 ambulance bill medicaid pays us $75, or there abouts. We eat the rest. Medicare will only pay for 'what is medically neccesary'. Which is fine with me. They should not have to pay because you don't have a car and need a ride to the hospital. People play the system and know what to say to us, but its getting easier to see through them.
If it goes through, whatever it is, you will see alot of EMS services fail because of lack of funds. You won't live long enough to see a ambulance show up at your house.
I have insurance, i'm glad, it pays for everything. Kit has none. She's broke from past medical bills.
Politics just make me mad. It does no good to write your rep. They will do what they want to do anyway. I hate polictical parties. I vote for the person and not his party. Its amazing the responses i read from the VRCC. I sit back and say to myself, I cannot believe they think like that! No common sense. 

[fudgie]

I repeat...
If only 23% of Americans feel health care reform is the top priority... Why is this a crisis? And why must it be done as if it was a crisis?

This because his other ideas have flopped. Weren't he gonna close Gitmo by now and bring all the troops home?  ???

[Jeff K]

77% of Americans don't put this on the top of their list of what the government should be working on.
And yet this is consuming the great majority of their time?
It blows me away. 

[fstsix]

Just a smoke screen to avoid the real issues, And in the world of politics they are in panic mode to get some revenue real fast before they raise the dept ceiling to 14 trillion.Its just hard to watch.  What do they figure public option would be 3-4 years to get on their program but start taxation January 1 -10, I think they need a little cash flow just in case.The funny part is they have never run a business of coarse if you consider they think they are a business, Every program is Bankrupt but then that goes back to why they are pushing this to begin with to put out their fires. What a joke. madness.

[Hoosier Valk]

Help! Help! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Jeff K]

What do they figure public option would be 3-4 years to get on their program but start taxation January 1 -10, .

That is another issue
We are going to start being taxed to fund this federal welfare program in 2010 with no services starting until 2013
So for at least 3 years I'm going to be paying at least double for my health care?

[Stanley Steamer]

What do they figure public option would be 3-4 years to get on their program but start taxation January 1 -10, .

That is another issue
We are going to start being taxed to fund this federal welfare program in 2010 with no services starting until 2013
So for at least 3 years I'm going to be paying at least double for my health care?

I think I read that Georgia Power was going to start adding a surcharge on all it's customer's bills to fund a new (nuclear)? Power Plant to be built sometime in the future...can't remember how many years down the road....

I think I read somewhere that a person who contributes to SS all his/her life usually spends all THEY ever invested into it in a few short years, so the rest of their benefits are coming from new workers/tax payers and now that a LOT more ppl are ready to retire with this poor economy, we have FAR less new jobs than in the past so we are in some SERIOUS "Do-do"!!!.....

[fstsix]

Good point people now at the age of 'Retirement' My brother just reminded me that the baby Boomers are at the age this next year to start their retirement for the first time in since SS was born, More are going to be taking out of SS than paying IN.I know the ski is falling  And dont think the Fed gov is not concerned trust me the sky is falling, along with the Dollar.

[saabfxr]

The sky cant be falling ...too much CO2 holding it up . Why does the winter come?, keeps me off the Valk too much.

[Robert]

Chris has the answer to the question it was the first response. In Nazi Germany the one of the first things Adolf did was become the health minister and start with health care to impose his rule. I have never been a big fan of history till now, because so much is happening so fast and most of the things being done now were done in the past with disastrous results. Even down to Obama appointing his czars to control things and they only answer to him. I'm not saying that Obama is Hitler or that he is the only one, but the plans being implemented now have sped up so its like watching a movie. Past administrations were Leary of doing what Obama has done and continues to do openly. I ask you how does a man with no real experience, that no one knows become leader of the one superpower still around? I would say that he had quite a few behind him that are the real power behind the throne. If you look at current affairs like its all happenstance then your lost, but if like a jig saw puzzle start to put the pieces together then you start to get a clear picture of why. You will never be able to piece things together if you look at the now only. If I haven't lost you yet then let me explain why I became so interested in history. I too looked at the present and heard all the explanations and none made sense till I started to look at things through the Bible. This is not for Christians only in fact its for anyone that wants to learn about current affairs. The Bible is not only a history book but also tells the future even if you are not a Christian. What was really amazing to me was the more I read the more things today started to make sense. The more I started to research and see reasons under the surface. I am not looking to convert anyone in this but to give a idea or even a challenge to all who seek to look into what the Bible says about things and see if it doesn't explain things a bit better. It takes a bit of time to listen to what its saying,  but if you do take the time you wont be disappointed. Dont read it to be converted read to understand and see what happens. For all who are into accuracy then the Bible has any other book  beat, of the approx 10000 prophecies in the Bible the ones that have been fulfilled have done so with 100% accuracy and some were written 2000 years before they came true. This is a possibility of more than 100 trillion to one. Why would you not read a book that has a proven accuracy rate in order to learn about whats happening now?

[fstsix]

Thanks Robert, i have said once history has led me to common sense, the history would be that of the Scriptures. What is being tried now by this administration is and shows lack of policy and talent. If all else fails try something that someone has tried before this one was to easy to understand for those scholars reading this, The Failed ( Keynesian economics ) word for word of what is going on,So much talent  again what a joke.http://www.ipi.org/ipi/ipipressreleases.nsf/de71f67b783e9324862567fb002173f9/a05b1b80501545938625755b00588a9a?OpenDocument

[Max Headroom]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

[RoadKill]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

"That is how our democracy works." ROFLMAO  If you believe that it really "works" then what are you bitchin' about  ? ! Why dont we look for ways to lower the cost of healthcare instead of begging for a hand out?  ???   if we can make it more affordable to the evil insurance companys maybe it would be cheaper policy's and they would not squawk about paying out. It is simple math and I still dont understand why I need to pay for your hospital stay when I am still paying out the A** for my own!  but you want the rest of us to pay more so you dont have to pay as much?

[fstsix]

Maxheadroom WELCOME first post? no need for name calling, Just curious how many Insurance health care providers do you have in your state?.BTW dont be shy on your on your very first post  . Opps oh yeah i have several employees self employed 34 years wife is X Engineer Aerospace disabled retired your preaching to the choir.My insurance is horrible also so about your access to (how many providers in your state?)

[Robert]

Max I have to agree with some of your points like the paying in and the cost of insurance and what comes out of my pocket. I am not the same age as you a bit younger but the deductibles and price sound about the same but the government is taking over the health care system. In simple terms if it wasn't so why is all this talk of a public option? Also you, me our kids will pay for it one way or another. The proposed plan also comes with a high cost on personal freedom and something else you may want to consider in Obamas bill regardless of what Obama says, the older you are the more likely they are to cut you off of any medical help if you are deemed not worth the money. Have I read the whole bill NO, parts YES and it is not good. I also dont like the fact that there will be a restriction on buying any additional insurance. The government has run almost every program into the ground so what makes them qualified to run health care? Why not regulate whats there? stop abuses and make doctors accountable for their work and hospitals charge reasonable prices? I forgot one thing too how about not giving illegals free medical care? How about the discount offered to all insurance company's starts to be offered to every Joe? A MRI that costs 900 would really cost 150 to 200.

[Jeff K]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

There is so much wrong here...
I can only assume that this is a troll

[RoadKill]

I must apologize,MAXHEADROOM, I did not intend to give ya "both barrels" right off the get go  ...This thread has been long and I have been biting my tongue.... Anyhow.... ..I'm  Dale and would like to offer a welcome as well.  I ALWAYS agree that we can disagree,I just aint quiet about it    Ride Long and Ride SAFE !

[fstsix]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

There is so much wrong here...
I can only assume that this is a troll

heheheh just playing with um, Ya THINK maybe a alter ego.

[Puffs Daddy]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

There is so much wrong here...
I can only assume that this is a troll

Care to point out what is "wrong?" In the past nine years the price to hire a new employee has gone up 25% in this country. Over that same period, the actual increase in wages has gone up exactly 0%. The reason? The burden of health care insurance in our "free enterprise" system.

The US currently devotes more to health care than any country in the world and ranks about 35th in terms of health. At the present rate of "private" health insurance increases, about half of our GDP will be devoted to health care within 20 years.

The so-called "public option" is not a government takeover of medical care or medical insurance; it is simply an option to be provided to consumers who prefer to pay into a system similar to Medicare where the administrative costs are approximately 3-5% versus private insurance where the average administrative costs are between 17% and 22%.

If you really want to get into a debate over the facts associated with medical care in the US, bring it on. But come armed with some facts.

[stormrider]

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

I beg to respectfully disagree. The deficit is our greatest enemy. Inflation, is our enemy. Greedy bankers our our enemy. And yes, something can and is being done about it. Ask you congressman to support Ron Paul's bill to audit the fed.
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/audit-the-federal-reserve-hr-1207/

And restore the gold standard.

[fstsix]

Not all Valkyrie riders are politically conservative. Some of us voted for Obama and are for a robust public  insurance option as a part of health care reform. So there are those who call me loonie and stupid and not well informed. The U.S. government is not taking over the health care system. You may choose to believe that to be so but why would you? Why not consider all the facts and argue from a standpoint of knowledge? No I have not read the 1520 page health care reform bill, have you? I don't intend to. I voted for my representatives in the Congress and I call and write them to express my opinions. That is how our democracy works.

I ride because I love to ride. I have been riding since 1964. I am soon to be 65 and eligible for Medicare. Currently I pay over $6,000 per year for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible combined for the two of us. Recently I spent one day in the hospital and it cost me over $5,000. Every cent came out of my pocket. That sucks. I am unemployed. I don't want to government to take care of me. Hell I have worked for 45 years. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong. Medicare is for people over 65. There is no income qualification for Medicare. Argue from knowledge not from ignorance.

Maybe you employer pays for your insurance and you are happy with that. I am confident that you employer pays too much and would like some of that burden lifted.

Federal deficit? Sorry guys that is not something you or I can do much about.

There is so much wrong here...
I can only assume that this is a troll

Care to point out what is "wrong?" In the past nine years the price to hire a new employee has gone up 25% in this country. Over that same period, the actual increase in wages has gone up exactly 0%. The reason? The burden of health care insurance in our "free enterprise" system.

The US currently devotes more to health care than any country in the world and ranks about 35th in terms of health. At the present rate of "private" health insurance increases, about half of our GDP will be devoted to health care within 20 years.

The so-called "public option" is not a government takeover of medical care or medical insurance; it is simply an option to be provided to consumers who prefer to pay into a system similar to Medicare where the administrative costs are approximately 3-5% versus private insurance where the average administrative costs are between 17% and 22%.

If you really want to get into a debate over the facts associated with medical care in the US, bring it on. But come armed with some facts.

Scanner i mean Puffs uh ? whatever , You never did answer my question on how many Ins Providers were in the same state as you and Scanner? Bring it On ................? Again along with the video you posted, Amazing 20% GDP in future CORRECT if the GOV dose not stop the lobbyist from free markets to work it out AKA competition. pointless. Correction if (WE) dont stop the Lobbyist for their corruption.Again Pointless.

[Chrisj CMA]

The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong.

That guy above was me....ok, maybe I should have said medicaid.  Or maybe there are other names. other programs.  My point was, we already have government controlled medical coverage for people that cannot afford it.  Im not saying thats a bad thing, I am saying we should be strengthening the economy and the dollar, making REAL jobs so less and less people are relying on the government.  Not the opposite so eventually we all will be .  Thats all Im saying, sorry for getting the name of the program wrong

[Puffs Daddy]

Scanner i mean Puffs uh ? whatever , You never did answer my question on how many Ins Providers were in the same state as you and Scanner? Bring it On ................? Again along with the video you posted, Amazing 20% GDP in future CORRECT if the GOV dose not stop the lobbyist from free markets to work it out AKA competition. pointless. Correction if (WE) dont stop the Lobbyist for their corruption.Again Pointless.

It would be difficult to imagine more errors in one short post. I didn't answer your question about the number of insurance providers in Washington state because you didn't ask me that question. The answer, however, is about 20 including a "public" option for a limited number of people who cannot get coverage elsewhere.

Second, I didn't post a video. Third, I'm not even sure what your garbled point regarding lobbyists is.

[Puffs Daddy]

The guy above who said we already have a health care program for people who can't afford it, medicare: is dead wrong.

That guy above was me....ok, maybe I should have said medicaid.  Or maybe there are other names. other programs.  My point was, we already have government controlled medical coverage for people that cannot afford it.  Im not saying thats a bad thing, I am saying we should be strengthening the economy and the dollar, making REAL jobs so less and less people are relying on the government.  Not the opposite so eventually we all will be .  Thats all Im saying, sorry for getting the name of the program wrong

In fact, Medicaid is not a federal insurance program; it's a grant program that allows individual states to provide medical care to the poorest of the poor. And depending upon the state the coverage ranges from inadequate to ridiculous. Medicare, on the other hand, is a federal health insurance program covering those 65 and older regardless of income. Its administrative costs amount to 3% to 5% of its total expenditures. The average private health insurance plan spends between 17% and 22%.

[Scott in Ok]

In fact, Medicaid is not a federal insurance program; it's a grant program that allows individual states to provide medical care to the poorest of the poor. And depending upon the state the coverage ranges from inadequate to ridiculous. Medicare, on the other hand, is a federal health insurance program covering those 65 and older regardless of income. Its administrative costs amount to 3% to 5% of its total expenditures. The average private health insurance plan spends between 17% and 22%.

In an attempt to educate myself on the subject, I ran across this article which is contradictory to what you are saying about Medicare administrative costs. 

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm2505.cfm

snip:
However, on a per-person basis Medicare's administrative costs are actually higher than those of private insurance--this despite the fact that private insurance companies do incur several categories of costs that do not apply to Medicare. If recent cost history is any guide, switching the more than 200 million Americans with private insurance to a public plan will not save money but will actually increase health care administrative costs by several billion dollars.

another snip:
Medicare patients are by definition elderly, disabled, or patients with end-stage renal disease, and as such have higher average patient care costs, so expressing administrative costs as a percentage of total costs gives a misleading picture of relative efficiency. Administrative costs are incurred primarily on a fixed or per-beneficiary basis; this approach spreads Medicare's costs over a larger base of patient care cost.

Like many things, when math and percentages are involved, the numbers can be used to argue either side depending on your point of view.  I'm not arguing either side, just trying to educate myself as the debate continues.

-Scott

[stormrider]

Thanks Scott. When things are put in their proper perspective it can have the effect of letting the air out of an arguement. Kinda like helium ballons. Stays afloat for only so long.

[Puffs Daddy]

In fact, Medicaid is not a federal insurance program; it's a grant program that allows individual states to provide medical care to the poorest of the poor. And depending upon the state the coverage ranges from inadequate to ridiculous. Medicare, on the other hand, is a federal health insurance program covering those 65 and older regardless of income. Its administrative costs amount to 3% to 5% of its total expenditures. The average private health insurance plan spends between 17% and 22%.

In an attempt to educate myself on the subject, I ran across this article which is contradictory to what you are saying about Medicare administrative costs. 

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm2505.cfm

snip:
However, on a per-person basis Medicare's administrative costs are actually higher than those of private insurance--this despite the fact that private insurance companies do incur several categories of costs that do not apply to Medicare. If recent cost history is any guide, switching the more than 200 million Americans with private insurance to a public plan will not save money but will actually increase health care administrative costs by several billion dollars.

another snip:
Medicare patients are by definition elderly, disabled, or patients with end-stage renal disease, and as such have higher average patient care costs, so expressing administrative costs as a percentage of total costs gives a misleading picture of relative efficiency. Administrative costs are incurred primarily on a fixed or per-beneficiary basis; this approach spreads Medicare's costs over a larger base of patient care cost.

Like many things, when math and percentages are involved, the numbers can be used to argue either side depending on your point of view.  I'm not arguing either side, just trying to educate myself as the debate continues.

-Scott

Good catch and congrats for bringing at least an effort at facts to a discussion like this. However, the Heritage Foundation commentary is hardly one to rely upon. The HF article essentially makes two points.

(1) Medicare insures more folks who need medical services. Thus, the share of expenditures is lower than for private insurance where many of the insured are not as much in need of medical care. However, this claim is effectively effectively eliminated if one looks at the administrative costs of traditional pay for service Medicare versus the privately run "Medicare Advantage" plans foisted on Medicare by the GOP Congress during the Bush administration. Since both traditional Medicare and Medicare Advantage plans serve virtually the same population, the comparison does not suffer from the criticism the HF article makes. In that case, "the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has found that administrative costs under the public Medicare plan are less than 2 percent of expenditures, compared with approximately 11 percent of spending by private plans under Medicare Advantage..."

"And even these numbers may unduly favor private plans: A recent General Accounting Office report found that in 2006 Medicare Advantage plans spent 83.3 percent of their revenue on medical expenses, with 10.1 percent going to non-medical expenses and 6.6 percent to profits—a 16.7 percent administrative share..."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/administrative-costs/

P.S. It also bears noting that GOP claims that health care insurance reform involves "cutting" Medicare actually amounts to eliminating the wasteful, inefficient "Medicare Advantage" programs that Medicare has been subsidizing since they began.

(2) The HF article maintains that administrative costs are higher for private plans than for Medicare because the latter has an advantage in terms of economies of scale. In short, Medicare has an advantage in terms of containing costs because it covers many more people than any single private insurer.  That, however, is hardly an argument in favor of a "free market." In fact, it's exactly the opposite.

One of the usually unmentioned factors in competitive markets is that administrative costs are duplicated by multiple suppliers. That's why mergers happen, folks. And when they do, the result is virtually always the elimination of redundant jobs.

Apparently, the HF article implies a "single payer" system would be more efficient than the current hodgepodge of insurance providers. It's just that in line with its ideological straitjacket, HF would prefer that it be a single (private) payer.

For a more complete discussion of this issue, see the following.

http://institute.ourfuture.org/files/Jacob_Hacker_Public_Plan_Choice.pdf

[Puffs Daddy]

Chris has the answer to the question it was the first response. In Nazi Germany the one of the first things Adolf did was become the health minister and start with health care to impose his rule....

Suffice to say that this is simply ridiculous. Germany has the oldest universal health care system in the world, dating to 1883 under Bismarck. And Adolph Hitler was never "Health Minister."