2 month carb rebuild

[mddaddy]

I own a low mileage 1998 standard, 16k, red and cream.  I used all the fuel additives, but time came to pay the ethanol Piper.
My problems started becoming serious when misfires and less than stellar performance became the norm.  Lots of pops at 2-3k, and really rich smelling exhaust at idle.  My wife would make our young son change his clothes after a ride, saying he smelled like motorcycle.
I bought a spare set of carbs off eBay for $200. This provided me plenty of spares in case I really screwed up the rebuild. Tore the spares down to see how everything went together, watched D-Ray's videos, and rolled the bike into the garage.
I tore it down; off with the tank, airbox (I hate that thing), moved # 1/2 coil and wire bundle, and air deflector, and wrestled them out. 
I bought a petcock rebuild kit (Honda) and Redeye's o-ring and de-smog kits. These are the best!
Tore down the carb assembly, taking pics as I thought necessary. 
The through bolts holding the assembly together were corroded badly at one end. Used liquid wrench to free them and pull out.
Watch those springs under the sync screws-they come out when you pull apart the carb assembly.  Redeye includes extras.  Also larger springs between butterfly mechanisms, no extras with redeye kit.
Bowl screws are tight, light tap with hammer on screwdriver handle will break them free.
Found several clogged slow jets and two rusted mixture screw springs. One mixture screw was rendered ineffective.
Use liquid wrench on mixture screws if tight. Let soak. I damaged the area around a stuck screw on one of the spares-be patient.  The screw was flat frozen, and I damaged the screw area trying to get the mixture screw out. D rounded right off, slot didn't work either.
Be careful with the slider diaphrams- this is old rubber. Don't get any chemicals on them.
I filled the carb body passages with carb cleaner, and let sit for a day. Soaked the jets in laquer thinner for a couple of days. Note that a couple slow jets were still clogged after soaking. Check them well before reinstallation; more on this later.

[mddaddy]

Lost half when posted:
Cont.
Redeye includes instructions for all o-rings.  I replaced the steel dowels with the plastic ones in the kit. Soak the old ones with liquid wrench, they are stubborn. The acid brush didn't last long, I used a reversed drill bit to tap out the end dowels.
Reassembly was not difficult, but watch those little springs! Put them back right, or you will find your bike idles at around 3k RPM; more on this later.

[Savago]

Nice write down.

Any pictures? :-)

[Ricky-D]

I filled the carb body passages with carb cleaner, and let sit for a day. Soaked the jets in laquer thinner for a couple of days. Note that a couple slow jets were still clogged after soaking. Check them well before reinstallation; more on this later.

Lacquer thinner is not the proper solvent for what resides within the passages of a gunked up carburetor. Strong soap and water would do a much better job. Why? Because all that gunk is organic, which is susceptible to soap and water.

***

[mddaddy]

Curious that all the online information I read never mentioned soap and water. Anyway...
Watch that you don't snag choke linkage return spring on rag..they will not return to original shape.
Important...visually check jets for clogs, don't just blow them out.
I replaced the float valves, though the old ones looked fine. 20 y old rubber...
Speaking of old rubber...I replaced all the vacuum plugs and lines, fuel lines, and rebuilt the petcock with the Honda kit.  Replaced crappy stock hose "clamps" with finger-friendly rings. 
The assembly was tougher going in than coming out. That air deflector was a struggle. New intake o-rings kept falling out, used a little grease to keep them in place.
De-smog went fine, didn't take the pipes off.  Take your time. No way I could see to avoid cutting the #3 air tube. I had to loosen crash bars for #1 and 2 smog plugs access.
Bench sync according redeye instructions made it rideable. Ran better than when I started, but still some popping. Synced with gauges, but ran like dropping cylinder.
Didn't want to tear into it again, but the idea is to ride it, not walk by it parked in garage. Airbox was a pain; warmed it on clothes dryer and tied tubes in pairs to clear frame rails...still had to wrestle it down on carb throats. I bent two of the thin metal stacks...glad I had spares. Take time with airbox.
Troubleshooting with temp gun showed #1 cylinder room temperature, while others were over 100 degrees. Swapped plugs and wires at coil, but no change. Pulling #1 plug had no effect on idle. Dang it.
Pulled air box, eyeballed #1 carb. Appears air cut valve not seated. It was the first one I worked one, I probably messed up. Removed #1 carb only, reseated air cut valve.

[mddaddy]

Looked at diaphram, float needle...didnt check jets. Should have.
Put carb back on, fought with o-rings, still dropping #1.  Checked coil, found rusted grounds on all of them, sanded off the rust. Still see #1 running cold.
Now looking at swapping slow jets in number 1 carb. Time for break.
Lessons learned:
1. No matter what they say in the YouTube videos, this ain't easy work. Carbs are challenging; six are 6 times more challenging.
2. Triple check everything, unless you like spending hours removing and reinstalling things.
3. Have spares, if you can afford it.
4. Take it to the shop if you don't have the down time to do it right.
5. Replace the rubber bits. This is 20 year old stuff, old and brittle.
6. When installing diaphrams/sliders, use finger to hold slide while putting in spring. This keeps the diaphram in ring slot.
7. Put the sync screw springs in correctly.
I hope to have time to swap out low speed jet in number 1 carb this weekend. After that, I don't know what else to do.  I'm not ready to pay dealer yet.

[John Schmidt]

You don't ever have to struggle with the air dam behind the radiator.....or remove it. Just remove the engine hangers and that allows the entire carb ass'y. to be moved back far enough to exit to the side and clear the dam.

[Pete]

You don't ever have to struggle with the air dam behind the radiator.....or remove it. Just remove the engine hangers and that allows the entire carb ass'y. to be moved back far enough to exit to the side and clear the dam.

+2

[mddaddy]

You don't ever have to struggle with the air dam behind the radiator.....or remove it. Just remove the engine hangers and that allows the entire carb ass'y. to be moved back far enough to exit to the side and clear the dam.

The jack adapter was under the engine. Unbolting mounts didn't seem prudent.

[Davemn]

Sounds like a business opportunity for someone. I take the carburetor assemble off, send it to someone, get it back ready to install. Yes? No?

[John Schmidt]

You don't ever have to struggle with the air dam behind the radiator.....or remove it. Just remove the engine hangers and that allows the entire carb ass'y. to be moved back far enough to exit to the side and clear the dam.

The jack adapter was under the engine. Unbolting mounts didn't seem prudent.

Doesn't make any difference, the engine isn't going anywhere if you do it. Call it experience....from a few dozen of us. 

[mddaddy]

You don't ever have to struggle with the air dam behind the radiator.....or remove it. Just remove the engine hangers and that allows the entire carb ass'y. to be moved back far enough to exit to the side and clear the dam.

The jack adapter was under the engine. Unbolting mounts didn't seem prudent.

Doesn't make any difference, the engine isn't going anywhere if you do it. Call it experience....from a few dozen of us. 

Thanks, good to know.  That hunk of plastic was tough.

[John Schmidt]

Next time if you insist on removing it, either lay it out in the sun or use a heat gun to soften it. But next time do as stated so you don't have to bother with it. 

[cross]

Looked at diaphram, float needle...didnt check jets. Should have.
Put carb back on, fought with o-rings, still dropping #1.  Checked coil, found rusted grounds on all of them, sanded off the rust. Still see #1 running cold.
Now looking at swapping slow jets in number 1 carb. Time for break.
Lessons learned:
1. No matter what they say in the YouTube videos, this ain't easy work. Carbs are challenging; six are 6 times more challenging.
2. Triple check everything, unless you like spending hours removing and reinstalling things.
3. Have spares, if you can afford it.
4. Take it to the shop if you don't have the down time to do it right.
5. Replace the rubber bits. This is 20 year old stuff, old and brittle.
6. When installing diaphrams/sliders, use finger to hold slide while putting in spring. This keeps the diaphram in ring slot.
7. Put the sync screw springs in correctly.
I hope to have time to swap out low speed jet in number 1 carb this weekend. After that, I don't know what else to do.  I'm not ready to pay dealer yet.

That carb is not clean enough! You'll need to do it again. I just finished rebuilding my carbs and i had to spray carb cleaner in all passages, let it sit over night. Spray it again, followed by air from the compressor. I did this several times until the cleaner and air was coming out on the other end of that passage. Jets as well, i plucked one wire from the steel wire brush and that was the only thing that cleared them. After assembly i connected them to auxiliary fuel tank and left it on for a bit but the about half of the carbs were leaking fuel into the throttle bodies so i replaced all fuel bowl valves and now they are all closing properly and bike purrs like a kitten.
Valkyrie carbs are pretty easy to work on, my CBX with 6 carbs, very complex to clean and disassemble/assemble.
The biggest part of the job is taking them off and putting them back on the bike so take your time when cleaning them, one pass is not enough.  Also, after assembly, put your finger in the intake side and push up vacuum pistons and make sure they go up without binding and they should be making a vacuum sound as well and if one that diaphragms is punctured it won't create enough vacuum to suck the fuel from the fuel bowl

PS. are you sure your air/fuel mixture screw is open like the others?

Sasha

[mddaddy]

Next time if you insist on removing it, either lay it out in the sun or use a heat gun to soften it. But next time do as stated so you don't have to bother with it. 

No insist, I followed D-Ray's advice to remove airdam.  I'll try your way when I pull them back off, as it sounds I need to remove and clean them better.

[mddaddy]

Looked at diaphram, float needle...didnt check jets. Should have.
Put carb back on, fought with o-rings, still dropping #1.  Checked coil, found rusted grounds on all of them, sanded off the rust. Still see #1 running cold.
Now looking at swapping slow jets in number 1 carb. Time for break.
Lessons learned:
1. No matter what they say in the YouTube videos, this ain't easy work. Carbs are challenging; six are 6 times more challenging.
2. Triple check everything, unless you like spending hours removing and reinstalling things.
3. Have spares, if you can afford it.
4. Take it to the shop if you don't have the down time to do it right.
5. Replace the rubber bits. This is 20 year old stuff, old and brittle.
6. When installing diaphrams/sliders, use finger to hold slide while putting in spring. This keeps the diaphram in ring slot.
7. Put the sync screw springs in correctly.
I hope to have time to swap out low speed jet in number 1 carb this weekend. After that, I don't know what else to do.  I'm not ready to pay dealer yet.

That carb is not clean enough! You'll need to do it again. I just finished rebuilding my carbs and i had to spray carb cleaner in all passages, let it sit over night. Spray it again, followed by air from the compressor. I did this several times until the cleaner and air was coming out on the other end of that passage. Jets as well, i plucked one wire from the steel wire brush and that was the only thing that cleared them. After assembly i connected them to auxiliary fuel tank and left it on for a bit but the about half of the carbs were leaking fuel into the throttle bodies so i replaced all fuel bowl valves and now they are all closing properly and bike purrs like a kitten.
Valkyrie carbs are pretty easy to work on, my CBX with 6 carbs, very complex to clean and disassemble/assemble.
The biggest part of the job is taking them off and putting them back on the bike so take your time when cleaning them, one pass is not enough.  Also, after assembly, put your finger in the intake side and push up vacuum pistons and make sure they go up without binding and they should be making a vacuum sound as well and if one that diaphragms is punctured it won't create enough vacuum to suck the fuel from the fuel bowl

PS. are you sure your air/fuel mixture screw is open like the others?

Sasha

Mixture screw was first thing I checked. Gonna take em off again, gone em another couple of passes.

[Ricky-D]

Curious that all the online information I read never mentioned soap and water.

Sure, that's because that information deals with hydrocarbon deposits such as varnish and the like.

What you are having to deal with is hydrocarbon tolerant fungi and algae that results from the ethanol in the gasoline you use.

And the soap I mention is not like the Ivory in you bathroom either. I'm suggesting a strong alkali soap and hot water.

You could use the newer type compounds like Purple Power or Fast Orange but you need to be careful using those.

Whatever, the stuff in your carburetors is mostly water soluble and hydrocarbon solvents don't work good on that kind of crud.

***

[cross]

I do have a little issue after carb cleaning too. Bike runs great and has tons of power but, on cold starts, there is not much high idle when choke is on. Only after i give it a bit of throttle, it stays around 1500. It also pops a bit as it idles like that and i think only on the left side.
Second, on down shifts and when slowing down before turning, as the throttle is rolled on slowly and just a bit, it is not smooth, there is a bit of hesitation or stutter but it clears the moment more throttle is given.
Also if i revved it from idle, slowly up to 2500 or so, it's not smooth either, runs as if it's missing

I'll check for vacuum leaks but all O rings are new and so are all vacuum caps

Thanks
Sasha

[mddaddy]

All finished and back together. On the road and running better than it has since I've owned it. Reminds me of the 99 I/S we bought new in 2000.
Used guitar string to clean slow jets, one pilot o-ring was damaged. Airbox gets easier with practice.  So nice to be able to haul my down syndrome son around again; he loves his rides with Dad.
Merry Christmas to all.

[Bighead]

Glad you are getting your boy back in the wind and she is running better

[Gental Gaint]

Sounds like a business opportunity for someone. I take the carburetor assemble off, send it to someone, get it back ready to install. Yes? No?

Billy Carr in Canton, TX. is doing just that..... rebuilt AND bench synced, ready to install... I even think he might have maybe 2 sets of carbs ready to go.... He has rebuilt over 3000 sets of Honda V4 carbs.... Valk carbs are 3 gen Honda Magna carbs... so... he has ALL the parts in stock....