An admiral report on losing his son to the opioids epidemic

[Savago]

Sad story, but worthwhile for us to reflect that it can happen with anyone:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/an-epidemic-from-which-no-one-is-safe/546773/?utm_source=atlfb

[The emperor has no clothes]

Very sad indeed. We have friends whose son has been going thru this for years. It is amazing what they are willing to do to get high.

[Willow]

Epidemic?  What bullshit.  Using mind altering chemicals begins as a choice.  It's not a randomly acquired infection.

It's fair for someone to say I did not save my son from drugs.  It's totally incorrect and irresponsible to say I could not.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Epidemic?  What bullshit.  Using mind altering chemicals begins as a choice.  It's not a randomly acquired infection.

It's fair for someone to say I did not save my son from drugs.  It's totally incorrect and irresponsible to say I could not.   

Would not the definition as an adjective vs. a noun be appropriate ?

ep·i·dem·ic
ˌepəˈdemik/Submit
noun
1.
a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time.
"a flu epidemic"
synonyms:   outbreak, plague, pandemic, epizootic
"an epidemic of typhoid"
adjective
1.
relating to or of the nature of an epidemic.
"shoplifting has reached epidemic proportions"
synonyms:   rife, rampant, widespread, wide-ranging, extensive, pervasive; More

[Willow]

Would not the definition as an adjective vs. a noun be appropriate ?

It was presented as a noun.  I took it correctly.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Would not the definition as an adjective vs. a noun be appropriate ?

It was presented as a noun.  I took it correctly.

You are correct. Most people aren't steeped in grammar as you are. Probably 80% think of the term in regards to the adjective definition. The writer was a grieving father talking about his dead son. I'll cut him a little slack. The gist of his story didn't come across as him using it as a noun. Just the title.

[Willow]

You are correct. Most people aren't steeped in grammar as you are. ...

My grammars are both dead.  They fell victim to the old age epidemic of the seventies.   

[Oss]

As long as people have free choice.....

Ultimately it is up to the addict to live free or die.

We can really only try to stop what we see and intervene at the many different moments in time.  It is heartbreaking when a family loses a child or any member to drugs or suicide.

My heart goes out to all the families of those who are unable/unwilling/ to tear free from substance abuse in all of its  forms

Unfortunately many of us know the pain of these families and more still will know the pain in the future. 

The war on drugs is not going well I fear and it seems there always is a new drug of choice every few years

[The emperor has no clothes]

As long as people have free choice.....

Ultimately it is up to the addict to live free or die.

We can really only try to stop what we see and intervene at the many different moments in time.  It is heartbreaking when a family loses a child or any member to drugs or suicide.

My heart goes out to all the families of those who are unable/unwilling/ to tear free from substance abuse in all of its  forms

Unfortunately many of us know the pain of these families and more still will know the pain in the future. 

The war on drugs is not going well I fear and it seems there always is a new drug of choice every few years

In my opinion doctors over prescribing and pharmaceutical companies pushing opioids bear a lot of the problem.

[Bighead]

Funny thing is ...is that Mary Jane does waaaay more for pain Than any opioid...but...can't get that legal in many places.d

[old2soon]

I get a LOT of ads on the T V bout these clinics wanting to help you get off of drugs-as long as you have good insurance-but I KNOW you can NOT force anyone to get off of drugs or booze. The one addicted has to WANT to dry out or get off of whatever they are on to escape reality. 2nd wife was still with me when I quit smoking. Her concession to me? She went outside to smoke. She still smokes. NOT a drug I guess but a parallel. I've known hard core addicts. Most if not all of them think- -they can control it even after the drugs or booze have in FACT taken them over. And-again from personal experience-the addicted in most cases don't want any help-til it's too late. Sorry for their loss. The sad part-he will NOT be the last to die. And even if they do get dried out how often do the ones that have dried out go back to their old ways? RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Funny thing is ...is that Mary Jane does waaaay more for pain Than any opioid...but...can't get that legal in many places.d

And our current Attorney General is looking to crack down on it.

[Robert]

The war on drugs has cost trillions of dollars and has not really produced any results. We here in Florida have seen a proliferation in half way houses, or recovery centers to the point that they are destroying the area. Also the crime rate is up, the cost to the insurance companies from these treatment centers and even the Police now have narcan in the their cars administering shots that cost quite a bit has cost everyone dearly in insurance costs, enforcement costs treatment costs. Even in the excuse in making new laws restricting our civil liberties and freedom. Even being used as a political issue for whatever ends they want or need at the time. 

 All this comes under the Americans with disabilities act which means they effectively have little or no registration or control over these centers,  can put them in residential areas next to kids and they make money like no ones business. So it may be the correct label since they are under this act and label it an sickness so epidemic according to law makers is correct. But I totally agree with Willow and others and say its a choice.

Society has failed to give these people something to live for. More laws are not needed since they dont work. As many have said its a choice, I say like riding without a helmet allow them to do what they want and they will either die or decide that its not a good thing.

 Every time the drug induced walking dead find a new way to put themselves into a coma the laws change to take that thing off the market that they are getting high on and sometimes these other drugs are not related to opiods and have been beneficial for many. But now you cannot get something to help yourself since some druggy decided to get high. I have walked down the street with my dog and found cans of air that they use to blow electronic parts off with on the ground empty. Since they use the gas inhaled to get high. Now even people who have a real medical reason to have pain killers sometimes cannot get them due to this epidemic. I have seen drug drops at major retailers in the stores and out of the stores. Leaving packets of things under light posts and buried around to come back to later or for someone else. In good and decent residential areas.

The treatment centers have a very poor rate of success also. 

 While I feel for everyone that has someone die or hooked on drugs or even alcohol I have seen the results and many dont come back the same even if they are no longer abusing. The pain and suffering they inflict on those around them is unbelievable and so I have little sympathy for them. I dont care where you are or who you are you more than likely come into contact with someone using.

Its an epidemic alright, but the disease is them on society, so it is a appropriate use, just not in the traditional sense.
 
I agree with Savago's opening that it can be anyone and its sad and no one is not touched in one form or another.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I get a LOT of ads on the T V bout these clinics wanting to help you get off of drugs-as long as you have good insurance-but I KNOW you can NOT force anyone to get off of drugs or booze. The one addicted has to WANT to dry out or get off of whatever they are on to escape reality. 2nd wife was still with me when I quit smoking. Her concession to me? She went outside to smoke. She still smokes. NOT a drug I guess but a parallel. I've known hard core addicts. Most if not all of them think- -they can control it even after the drugs or booze have in FACT taken them over. And-again from personal experience-the addicted in most cases don't want any help-til it's too late. Sorry for their loss. The sad part-he will NOT be the last to die. And even if they do get dried out how often do the ones that have dried out go back to their old ways? RIDE SAFE.

I don't have much experience around this. But of the friends that have sons and daughters on heroin, OxyContin they all relapse. Some have been in rehab 3 times only to start up again.

[Ramie]

A lot of different pressures on kids today.  When I was young when we weren't in school we worked, in the summer it was from dawn to dusk.  No time to be bored, no one complained about having nothing to do.  I think a great may things they call mental disorders today have to do with people having to much time to think about themselves.  They are taught they are the most important person in the universe.
 
As proverbs says, Idle hands are the devils workshop.

[Robert]

Was talking to one of the rehab counselors one day and asked him the true stats around how much they help and was astounded to hear from his mouth, one third keep on doing the same thing, one third maybe get helped and one third die. He also said the helped ones may be less, like maybe one in 10.

I had a kid working for me that I was training and would give him 20.00 a day lunch money in addition to his salary since he never seemed to have money. Great kid and had the ability to do the job and a bright future. Well I learned of his habit later and found he would take the 20 and go and buy drugs. While he was working for me he would tell me of how his brother was on drugs and I would tell him your brother is not the same person anymore and be careful. Fast forward a few years we still keep in touch and he has a semi workable life, his brother is dead of an overdose and has left behind one child and one druggy mother, parents who are free of locking their bedroom door from the theft that would go on. But the wounds are still there along with the sadness of lives that could have been so much more.

On a personal note I consider drinking to excess the same as drug abuse since I have seen parents come home drunk and beat the kids and have no money. The same destructive trail is left by those who are alcoholics the only difference is drugs kill quicker. So this trend has always been there its just shifted drugs of choice.

[3fan4life]

As long as people have free choice.....

Ultimately it is up to the addict to live free or die.

We can really only try to stop what we see and intervene at the many different moments in time.  It is heartbreaking when a family loses a child or any member to drugs or suicide.

My heart goes out to all the families of those who are unable/unwilling/ to tear free from substance abuse in all of its  forms

Unfortunately many of us know the pain of these families and more still will know the pain in the future. 

The war on drugs is not going well I fear and it seems there always is a new drug of choice every few years

In my opinion doctors over prescribing and pharmaceutical companies pushing opioids bear a lot of the problem.

Around 2013 the federal Government decided that this was the problem.

They went after Dr's for "over prescribing" opiod pain killers.

This campaign was succssful, prescription opiods have become very hard to obtain.


The drug cartels did not let this go unnoticed.

They flooded the streets of America with heroin and they sold it cheap.

Not only is heroin a 1,000 times more addictive than any prescription pain killer but it gets "cut" with all kinds of things.

One of the more popular cutting agents is Fentanyl.

Fentanyl is a very strong synthetic opiod that is also highly addictive.

Heroin is also being laced with Carfentanil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil which is essentially an elephant tranquilizer.

Carfentanil is 10,000 time stronger than Morphine.

Heroin laced with Carfentanil is almost always fatal to the user.

 
I don't know the national statisics but I do know what the death toll due to opiod use is for Virginia.

In 2015 Virginia officially had 804 people die due to opiod overdose.

In 2016 that number increased to 1,420 people.

As of August 2017 every locality in Virginia had already recorded more deaths than all of 2016.

It is possible that more than 2,000 people will die in Virginia alone due to opiod overdose this year.


The EMS system that I worked at for 20yrs is running 5-6 herion overdose calls every single day.

When I worked there we averaged 5-6 per month.

All of the surrounding localities are also running heroin overdose calls on a daily basis.

5 years ago these localities might have one such call per year.


Much to Willow's dismay I will use the term "epidemic" to decsribe this situation.

Mainly because I can't think of another term to describe a situation that is resulting in the loss of so many lives.

I will agree with those who call it a choice.

At least the first time someone chooses to use.

Once addicted it is no longer a choice.

It becomes a physical and mental need.


I wish that I had a solution to this problem.

This epidemic is robbing our nation of its youth at an alarming rate.

If this problem is not brought under control it will destroy us, as surely as a nuclear war.
   

[baldo]

As long as people have free choice.....

Ultimately it is up to the addict to live free or die.

We can really only try to stop what we see and intervene at the many different moments in time.  It is heartbreaking when a family loses a child or any member to drugs or suicide.

My heart goes out to all the families of those who are unable/unwilling/ to tear free from substance abuse in all of its  forms

Unfortunately many of us know the pain of these families and more still will know the pain in the future. 

The war on drugs is not going well I fear and it seems there always is a new drug of choice every few years

In my opinion doctors over prescribing and pharmaceutical companies pushing opioids bear a lot of the problem.

Around 2013 the federal Government decided that this was the problem.

They went after Dr's for "over prescribing" opiod pain killers.

This campaign was succssful, prescription opiods have become very hard to obtain.


The drug cartels did not let this go unnoticed.

They flooded the streets of America with heroin and they sold it cheap.

Not only is heroin a 1,000 times more addictive than any prescription pain killer but it gets "cut" with all kinds of things.

One of the more popular cutting agents is Fentanyl.

Fentanyl is a very strong synthetic opiod that is also highly addictive.

Heroin is also being laced with Carfentanil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil which is essentially an elephant tranquilizer.

Carfentanil is 10,000 time stronger than Morphine.

Heroin laced with Carfentanil is almost always fatal to the user.

 
I don't know the national statisics but I do know what the death toll due to opiod use is for Virginia.

In 2015 Virginia officially had 804 people die due to opiod overdose.

In 2016 that number increased to 1,420 people.

As of August 2017 every locality in Virginia had already recorded more deaths than all of 2016.

It is possible that more than 2,000 people will die in Virginia alone due to opiod overdose this year.


The EMS system that I worked at for 20yrs is running 5-6 herion overdose calls every single day.

When I worked there we averaged 5-6 per month.

All of the surrounding localities are also running heroin overdose calls on a daily basis.

5 years ago these localities might have one such call per year.


Much to Willow's dismay I will use the term "epidemic" to decsribe this situation.

Mainly because I can't think of another term to describe a situation that is resulting in the loss of so many lives.

I will agree with those who call it a choice.

At least the first time someone chooses to use.

Once addicted it is no longer a choice.

It becomes a physical and mental need.


I wish that I had a solution to this problem.

This epidemic is robbing our nation of its youth at an alarming rate.

If this problem is not brought under control it will destroy us, as surely as a nuclear war.
   

Very well said....

I really feel that when dealers are caught with these poison-laced drugs, they should be given a quick trial and executed when found guilty.

[3fan4life]

As long as people have free choice.....

Ultimately it is up to the addict to live free or die.

We can really only try to stop what we see and intervene at the many different moments in time.  It is heartbreaking when a family loses a child or any member to drugs or suicide.

My heart goes out to all the families of those who are unable/unwilling/ to tear free from substance abuse in all of its  forms

Unfortunately many of us know the pain of these families and more still will know the pain in the future. 

The war on drugs is not going well I fear and it seems there always is a new drug of choice every few years

In my opinion doctors over prescribing and pharmaceutical companies pushing opioids bear a lot of the problem.

Around 2013 the federal Government decided that this was the problem.

They went after Dr's for "over prescribing" opiod pain killers.

This campaign was succssful, prescription opiods have become very hard to obtain.


The drug cartels did not let this go unnoticed.

They flooded the streets of America with heroin and they sold it cheap.

Not only is heroin a 1,000 times more addictive than any prescription pain killer but it gets "cut" with all kinds of things.

One of the more popular cutting agents is Fentanyl.

Fentanyl is a very strong synthetic opiod that is also highly addictive.

Heroin is also being laced with Carfentanil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil which is essentially an elephant tranquilizer.

Carfentanil is 10,000 time stronger than Morphine.

Heroin laced with Carfentanil is almost always fatal to the user.

 
I don't know the national statisics but I do know what the death toll due to opiod use is for Virginia.

In 2015 Virginia officially had 804 people die due to opiod overdose.

In 2016 that number increased to 1,420 people.

As of August 2017 every locality in Virginia had already recorded more deaths than all of 2016.

It is possible that more than 2,000 people will die in Virginia alone due to opiod overdose this year.


The EMS system that I worked at for 20yrs is running 5-6 herion overdose calls every single day.

When I worked there we averaged 5-6 per month.

All of the surrounding localities are also running heroin overdose calls on a daily basis.

5 years ago these localities might have one such call per year.


Much to Willow's dismay I will use the term "epidemic" to decsribe this situation.

Mainly because I can't think of another term to describe a situation that is resulting in the loss of so many lives.

I will agree with those who call it a choice.

At least the first time someone chooses to use.

Once addicted it is no longer a choice.

It becomes a physical and mental need.


I wish that I had a solution to this problem.

This epidemic is robbing our nation of its youth at an alarming rate.

If this problem is not brought under control it will destroy us, as surely as a nuclear war.
   

Very well said....

I really feel that when dealers are caught with these poison-laced drugs, they should be given a quick trial and executed when found guilty.

I've said for decades that drug dealers should be publicly hanged.

The should build a gallows in the neighborhood where they dealt their drugs and then hang them from it.

That way all of the kids that looked up to them and thought they were a big deal can watch them swing from a rope.

[Jersey mike]

Well all of my experience comes from personal use. I took Vicoden (aka Hydrocodone) 7.5mg/350 4 times a day along with an anti-inflammatory (1per day) for 8 years because of persistent neck and back pain. When I started my pain management doctor would see me every 3 months and give me a 3 month supply. Then this crackdown started after about 6 years and he could only give me a two month supply before I had to go back to the office. Then it became 1 month and back to the office. I finally decided this was crazy and stopped taking them. It took about 3 weeks of reducing from 4 a day to none. So now I live with constant pain in the neck and low back. Take anything over the counter like Aleve, Motrin and Excedrin to help but it doesn't come close to the relief I got from the Vicoden.

My wife and I discussed surgery many times and she's uncomfortable with the whole thing of rebuilding the neck and fusion.

If I had the choice I'd go back to using the Vicoden every day instead of all the over the counter stuff I take.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Well all of my experience comes from personal use. I took Vicoden (aka Hydrocodone) 7.5mg/350 4 times a day along with an anti-inflammatory (1per day) for 8 years because of persistent neck and back pain. When I started my pain management doctor would see me every 3 months and give me a 3 month supply. Then this crackdown started after about 6 years and he could only give me a two month supply before I had to go back to the office. Then it became 1 month and back to the office. I finally decided this was crazy and stopped taking them. It took about 3 weeks of reducing from 4 a day to none. So now I live with constant pain in the neck and low back. Take anything over the counter like Aleve, Motrin and Excedrin to help but it doesn't come close to the relief I got from the Vicoden.

My wife and I discussed surgery many times and she's uncomfortable with the whole thing of rebuilding the neck and fusion.

If I had the choice I'd go back to using the Vicoden every day instead of all the over the counter stuff I take.

Man that sucks ! Riding must be pretty difficult with your neck in that shape ?  My brother has the same issue. He has been on OxyContin for years. It's killing him. He's down to 110 lbs. from 200.

[Jersey mike]

Riding is tough, tougher since I switched to a modular helmet but I'm good for about 2 hours of straight riding before I need to take a break for 10-15 min. Then I can make another 1 - 1.5 hrs of straight riding before I need to get the helmet off and stretch out the neck. When I was taking the medication I could red quite a bit longer. One thing I found is if I keep my head moving side to side it helps prolong before real pain sets in.

Yes I took the medication when I rode. I was never "high". I work with glass on a daily basis, large sheets of glass of different thicknesses and would never put myself or another person at risk if I was "under the influence" or felt I was high.

I never lost weight, my appetite stayed pretty much the same and the one time I asked the doctor about constipation he said "eat a bowl of Cheerios and you'll be fine" damn if he wasn't right.

The best thing about the medication was I was comfortable and could move around. My most irritating issue is I can't look up for more than 30 seconds or so.

[Bighead]

Well all of my experience comes from personal use. I took Vicoden (aka Hydrocodone) 7.5mg/350 4 times a day along with an anti-inflammatory (1per day) for 8 years because of persistent neck and back pain. When I started my pain management doctor would see me every 3 months and give me a 3 month supply. Then this crackdown started after about 6 years and he could only give me a two month supply before I had to go back to the office. Then it became 1 month and back to the office. I finally decided this was crazy and stopped taking them. It took about 3 weeks of reducing from 4 a day to none. So now I live with constant pain in the neck and low back. Take anything over the counter like Aleve, Motrin and Excedrin to help but it doesn't come close to the relief I got from the Vicoden.

My wife and I discussed surgery many times and she's uncomfortable with the whole thing of rebuilding the neck and fusion.

If I had the choice I'd go back to using the Vicoden every day instead of all the over the counter stuff I take.

Man that sucks ! Riding must be pretty difficult with your neck in that shape ?  My brother has the same issue. He has been on OxyContin for years. It's killing him. He's down to 110 lbs. from 200.

Rob that is a big problem.....OxyContin was produced for terminally ill cancer patients....it IS almost 100% addictive ( but if given to terminally ill patients it really doesn't matter) it should not be prescribed to anyone for pain management unless they are terminal.

[3fan4life]

Well all of my experience comes from personal use. I took Vicoden (aka Hydrocodone) 7.5mg/350 4 times a day along with an anti-inflammatory (1per day) for 8 years because of persistent neck and back pain. When I started my pain management doctor would see me every 3 months and give me a 3 month supply. Then this crackdown started after about 6 years and he could only give me a two month supply before I had to go back to the office. Then it became 1 month and back to the office. I finally decided this was crazy and stopped taking them. It took about 3 weeks of reducing from 4 a day to none. So now I live with constant pain in the neck and low back. Take anything over the counter like Aleve, Motrin and Excedrin to help but it doesn't come close to the relief I got from the Vicoden.

My wife and I discussed surgery many times and she's uncomfortable with the whole thing of rebuilding the neck and fusion.

If I had the choice I'd go back to using the Vicoden every day instead of all the over the counter stuff I take.

I've been having neck issues as well.

Luckily mine seems to come and go, so I have good days and bad days.

On the good days Motrin or Alieve are good enough.

For the really bad days I have the choice of Tramadol or Hydrocodone.

If you haven't tried Tramadol I'd recommend giving it a try.

It's a pretty good non narcotic pain reliever.

[3fan4life]

This was in today's Roanoke Times:

Vinton woman charged in states largest Fentanyl seizure

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/roanoke/vinton-woman-charged-in-state-s-largest-fentanyl-seizure/article_5a65481d-1d02-518a-b8ce-1156e52f0934.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=Daily%20News&utm_campaign=Daily%20News%20Email

According to the article she had nearly 2 kilos which contains almost 1,000,000 lethal doses of the drug.

[baldo]

This was in today's Roanoke Times:

Vinton woman charged in states largest Fentanyl seizure

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/roanoke/vinton-woman-charged-in-state-s-largest-fentanyl-seizure/article_5a65481d-1d02-518a-b8ce-1156e52f0934.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=Daily%20News&utm_campaign=Daily%20News%20Email

According to the article she had nearly 2 kilos which contains almost 1,000,000 lethal doses of the drug.

Convict her and sentence to life.

[3fan4life]

This was in today's Roanoke Times:

Vinton woman charged in states largest Fentanyl seizure

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/roanoke/vinton-woman-charged-in-state-s-largest-fentanyl-seizure/article_5a65481d-1d02-518a-b8ce-1156e52f0934.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=Daily%20News&utm_campaign=Daily%20News%20Email

According to the article she had nearly 2 kilos which contains almost 1,000,000 lethal doses of the drug.

Convict her and sentence to life.

According to the article she is facing 10yrs if convicted.