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Lyonardo
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« on: November 29, 2017, 05:19:20 PM » |
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Hey all,
Yesterday, I noticed my horn wasn't working.
It's a quad tone horn setup from an old pickup truck.
1st check: meter on the wires, 3 volts when I pushed the horn button
2nd check: removed the horn and wired each directly to battery. Normal honk
3rd check: checked fuse. good. Other items on the circuit work normally (tail light, etc...)
4th check: 5 pole relay. operates when key is on. nothing when key is off.
I assume that last week I was getting 12 volts to the horn, and suddenly that dropped for some reason.
Maybe the relay is switching normally, but not putting out full voltage? Is that possible?
I'll play around with it again tomorrow. Pick up a new relay.
Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
L
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:51:36 PM by Lyonardo »
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WintrSol
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 07:43:46 PM » |
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You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
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98 Honda Valkyrie GL1500CT Tourer
Photo of my FIL Jack, in honor of his WWII service
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 08:20:24 PM » |
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I had no idea trucks came with 4-tone horns.
First, a correction of terminology: If you are using a common cube relay, what you probably have is a 5 pin single pole double throw (SPDT) relay, also known as a changeover (CO) relay, most of which are rated 30A or 40A on the NO (normally open) contacts.
I know the Buick/Cadillac 4-tone horns from the 80's and 90's were served by a 15A fuse, so if your horns are similar, your 30-40A relay should be fine, if working properly. Unless it is exposed to weather or is really cheap, the chances of it failing after only a couple of hundred uses are pretty slim.
The thing I would do first is disconnect, clean, and reconnect all your connections, especially those exposed to road weather, including the ground wire(s).
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Lyonardo
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 10:29:59 PM » |
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OK, sounds like all I'm detecting is residual voltage from from the horn button that switches the relay. So pins 85 and 86 are good.
And pin 87 out to the speakers is good.
So either pin 30 is bad, or the wire connecting it to the fuse is broken open.
I'll check tomorrow.
The horns are old FIAMM am80s, just typical horns used in a lot of trucks back in the day.
Thanks
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Lyonardo
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 10:53:11 PM » |
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Yep, standard 5 pole relay switched by the horn button. I replaced the speakers on existing wiring about 6 months ago. It's possible they drew more than the relay could handle. Thanks You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
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Ramie
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 05:10:50 AM » |
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Yep, standard 5 pole relay switched by the horn button. I replaced the speakers on existing wiring about 6 months ago. It's possible they drew more than the relay could handle. Thanks You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
Not sure what speakers have to do with your horn? |
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“I am not a courageous person by nature. I have simply discovered that, at certain key moments in this life, you must find courage in yourself, in order to move forward and live. It is like a muscle and it must be exercised, first a little, and then more and more. A deep breath and a leap.”
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WintrSol
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 06:29:38 AM » |
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According to this page https://www.fiamm.com/media/190214/am80-s.pdf, each horn draws as much as 9A, so four of them would draw 36A. A cheap, auto parts store relay could handle it for a while, if you're not too honk-happy. |
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98 Honda Valkyrie GL1500CT Tourer
Photo of my FIL Jack, in honor of his WWII service
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 08:20:49 AM » |
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Yep, standard 5 pole relay switched by the horn button. I replaced the speakers on existing wiring about 6 months ago. It's possible they drew more than the relay could handle. Thanks You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
Not sure what speakers have to do with your horn? I think he is referring to his horns as speakers. Which in a way is accurate.  |
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Lyonardo
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 10:08:37 AM » |
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Yep, everybody calls them "horns" but devices like these are really just speakers: a diaphragm that gets vibrated by an electromagnetic signal. The only real difference is the diaphragm is made of metal. You could even play music through it, but it just wouldn't sound any good. The metal diaphragm is too stiff to reproduce the full dynamic range. Yep, standard 5 pole relay switched by the horn button. I replaced the speakers on existing wiring about 6 months ago. It's possible they drew more than the relay could handle. Thanks You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
Not sure what speakers have to do with your horn? |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 11:04:21 AM » |
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Yep, everybody calls them "horns" but devices like these are really just speakers: a diaphragm that gets vibrated by an electromagnetic signal. The only real difference is the diaphragm is made of metal. You could even play music through it, but it just wouldn't sound any good. The metal diaphragm is too stiff to reproduce the full dynamic range. Yep, standard 5 pole relay switched by the horn button. I replaced the speakers on existing wiring about 6 months ago. It's possible they drew more than the relay could handle. Thanks You didn't mention a horn relay, unless that is the 5 pole, and is switched by the horn button to operate the horn. Otherwise, most horns louder than that little meep-meep one draw a lot more current, and the switch can't handle it well, eventually burning and pitting. If you use the stock horn wire to turn a relay on, which then honks the horn, you'll not only have a louder horn, but the switch will survive longer. If you are switching the horn with the 5 pole relay, is the current rating for that relay high enough? Many multiple horns like that draw 15A or more; the rating should be listed on the data that came with it.
Not sure what speakers have to do with your horn? I appreciate your freethinking  But I thought horns were only capable of one note each. I don't remember any old pickups having different horns. Where did you get yours ? Honestly I'm not very effective using my horn. I put a dual car horn setup on my Standard, but my Interstate has only 1 stock one. I should change it. |
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Lyonardo
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 08:34:12 PM » |
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FYI, it was the relay. Just like a couple of you suggested.
And yes, it was the input power on pin 30 that was bad. I tested for 12 volts coming off the fuse, so it was obvious after that.
I found a 40 amp relay at Napa auto parts.
I also removed one of the 4 horns.
Seems just as loud, but now has one less tone.
If anyone is interested about my troubleshooting steps, and how I have the horns mounted; I'll post a Youtube vdeo tomorrow.
Thanks,
L
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