Here's the problem (Political)

[JimL]

The following map shows the 2008 Presidential Election Results by county.  It is very informative indeed.  The perennially liberal Northeast (home of the Kennedy's) went as expected, as did Minnesota (the home of Hubert Humphrey).  The inner city regions of Chicago, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia and Miami were no surprise, lots of folks looking for government entitlements.  The entire west coast came as no surprise...I won't bother to opine on this area of the country.

We find the great midwest, the Bread Basket of America and a culture that believes in hard work and self reliance also was no surprise....overwhelmingly conservative.  Overwhelmingly, by area the country is conservative.  

I will let someone else debate which is civilized......

[hotglue #43]

Interesting map....
I guess I need someone to explain to me how Urban Blight and Economically Depressed areas equals Civilized???????

[Puffs Daddy]

The following map shows the 2008 Presidential Election Results by county.  It is very informative indeed.  The perennially liberal Northeast (home of the Kennedy's) went as expected, as did Minnesota (the home of Hubert Humphrey).  The inner city regions of Chicago, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia and Miami were no surprise, lots of folks looking for government entitlements.  The entire west coast came as no surprise...I won't bother to opine on this area of the country.

We find the great midwest, the Bread Basket of America and a culture that believes in hard work and self reliance also was no surprise....overwhelmingly conservative.  Overwhelmingly, by area the country is conservative.  

I will let someone else debate which is civilized......

Yup. No question that areas where people are outnumbered by cattle, sheep, and cactus, the GOP retains some attraction. Likewise for states that are net "receivers" of federal dollars, i.e. receive more than they pay in taxes.

[Jeff K]

Yup. No question that areas where people are outnumbered by cattle, sheep, and cactus, the GOP retains some attraction. Likewise for states that are net "receivers" of federal dollars, i.e. receive more than they pay in taxes.

And the areas with all the crime, poverty and taxes are overwhelmingly controlled by the Democrats. And have been for a long time. Oh, boy I sure hope they can spread some of that success to us hicks in the red counties!! 

[Romeo]

Thanx for representin' the chapter Skinhead, i couldn't agree withya more. Maybe Puff doesn't realize what J.A.B.O.A. is all about. By the way, in my America a person aspires to make himself or herself better. A person aspires to Provide for their family. Its called the "work"ethic. Obviously something a large portion of our population doesn't know anything about.  I guess maybe I just live in a vacuum. Are these ideas outmoded? Maybe. My problem with the current administration is, they seem to think they are dangerous to the common good. That my friends, is the real problem.

[G-Man]

Don't forget that many of those that can't make it on there own, for one reason or another, migrate to the more urban welfare states.

[Charlie]

The following map shows the 2008 Presidential Election Results by county.  It is very informative indeed.  The perennially liberal Northeast (home of the Kennedy's) went as expected, as did Minnesota (the home of Hubert Humphrey).  The inner city regions of Chicago, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia and Miami were no surprise, lots of folks looking for government entitlements.  The entire west coast came as no surprise...I won't bother to opine on this area of the country.

We find the great midwest, the Bread Basket of America and a culture that believes in hard work and self reliance also was no surprise....overwhelmingly conservative.  Overwhelmingly, by area the country is conservative.  

I will let someone else debate which is civilized......

These maps are so mis-leading!  By looking at it, one would assume the country should be one huge Republican Mecca.  The truth is, these maps show winners and losers, by county, but not the numbers in each county (that is, how close the race was within that county).  In most cases, the races were very close, which suggests, at best, a close race. It does not represent the will of the majority, that is shown by the electoral votes, and the total numbers of votes.

We often see this type of map come out when a loser isn't happy with the outcome.  Not that I am an Obama supporter, but if facts are going to be used, make sure they are legitimate facts, which represent the truth as a whole.  If that isn't done, no one will trust what you say, save those who do not want to know the truth, unless it backs up their argument.

[JimL]

Yup. No question that areas where people are outnumbered by cattle, sheep, and cactus, the GOP retains some attraction. Likewise for states that are net "receivers" of federal dollars, i.e. receive more than they pay in taxes.

This is an absurd argument even by your low standards.  If we look at the 2005 Tax Foundation report, the top 10 states receiving more Federal Tax Dollars than they contributed were:

New Mexico, Mississippi, Alaska, Louisiana, West Virginia, North Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia and Montana.

All of these states are in the bottom half in raking by population (the exception being Alabama which is ranked 23rd).  Most of these states are states with large land mass as opposed to states like New Jersey.  Federal funds which go to support the roads and infrastructure in these large states with small populations obviously will show up as a deficit...however I think (almost) everyone understands that everyone in the country uses this infrastructure.  Certainly many of us made use of I-70 this year through the sparsely populated state of Kansas on our way to Inzane.  If we look at the enormous cost of maintaining the Alaskan Highway which is a Military supply route and then try to make a point that this burden is because of the inhabitants of the sparsely populated state of Alaska is either disingenuous, ignorant or both.

But let's pretend for sake of discussion that population was not a factor.  The states which incur large deficits such as New York, New Jersey and California are simply suffering because of their own liberal policies.  The progressive income tax structure will obviously not favor states with high household incomes vs. states with low household incomes like Mississippi. If the residents of these states want someone to complain to, they simply need go no further than the mirror.  I personally don't want to hear their bitching when they are the ones voting for the party that is causing them the pain.

[fstsix]

It amazes me how we keep argueing about the left right distraction exactly the way they want us to. It's not about left or right. It's about we the people,freedom and the constitution. The globalists ( U.N.) have hijacked this country through the private federal reserve but we keep fighting about left or right as both parties keep moving the globalist agenda further and further forward. United we stand, devided we fall. The globalists have successfully devided us and if we don't wake up to their game soon it will be to late to do anything about it. Long live the republic....Death to the new world order !!!!

Welcome, Mr Jerry .Well wide awake here,It looks like our 2 party system is under assault, But of coarse the Libs that love the social programs are still in bed this morning Sleeping!.But i have to go to work and Pay 15.4% SSI tax when the Gov Employees only pay 7.% SSI  .So if 95% of America is Small business i am sure that wont be Adding more cost for my Co to operate,The Rocket scientist that put this Gov welfare OPP together are trying to dump on the self employed, its going to be counter productive, When you see any negative response to this you will see who has never run a business.Including our GOV.

[JimL]

These maps are so mis-leading!  By looking at it, one would assume the country should be one huge Republican Mecca.  The truth is, these maps show winners and losers, by county, but not the numbers in each county (that is, how close the race was within that county).  In most cases, the races were very close, which suggests, at best, a close race. It does not represent the will of the majority, that is shown by the electoral votes, and the total numbers of votes.

We often see this type of map come out when a loser isn't happy with the outcome.  Not that I am an Obama supporter, but if facts are going to be used, make sure they are legitimate facts, which represent the truth as a whole.  If that isn't done, no one will trust what you say, save those who do not want to know the truth, unless it backs up their argument.

Charlie I appreciate your point, however I think most folks on here understand how the electoral college works.  You will notice that I clearly stated "by area" the country is conservative.

[MAD6Gun]

 

Yup. No question that areas where people are outnumbered by cattle, sheep, and cactus, the GOP retains some attraction. Likewise for states that are net "receivers" of federal dollars, i.e. receive more than they pay in taxes.

Obama won because a good majority of his "followers" voted for him because he is "Black" and that they thought he would give them everything they ever wanted. I saw a Woman on TV at one of his Rallies  during the election saying "I don't have to worry about paying my bills no more". If that doesn't sounds like a person looking for a handout I don't know what does. Now that hes in office those same people are wondering where there free stuff is.
 During the Election Indiana set a record that as a Hoosier I am not proud off. This election is the first time since 1964 that Indiana has help elect a democratic President. The great state of Indiana has 93 counties. Take a guess how many Obama won. 13. 13 out 0f 93. He won the counties around Gary IN (surprise surprise) and around Indy. As well as a few other around larger Cities. This proves my point.  Now I am not against democrats just the ones that want to push government control and take my guns.
 The bottom line is that the Liberals are tired of guys like Rush,Beck, O Riley Fox News and other Conservative media telling people what the liberal media will not.........  

[fstsix]

Not trying to hijack here, GUNS, has any heard that rumor, That  they will impose Liability Ins on our guns so that it is going to be so expensive that if you dont carry it you could fined or what lose your permit or registration. .These boys just dont stop!.

[RoadKill]

Square miles of land won by:     Democrats: 1,483,702    Republicans: 2,310,315                                                                                           

Population of counties won by:  Democrats: just under 183 million    Republicans: just under 119 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 6.56    Republicans: 3.60

calculated county populations and murder rates using official data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s "USA County Data Files." We obtained nearly complete county-by-county election results from the Web site of University of Michigan professor Mark Newman, who extracted them from USA Today’s election Web site as of Nov. 16. We adjusted these figures only to resolve ties in three counties (more recent figures show two of these counties going for Obama, one for McCain). It is possible that a few counties will change hands when all official results are reported.

Population figures are Census estimates for 2007. Murder rates are calculated from the number of murders and non-negligent homicides by county for 2005, the most recent figures Census provides, and population estimates for 2005.



Puff is just saying that decisions should be made by all the people living crammed together, in small confined areas like we keep our cattle.  This is for the good of the cattle. It makes them smarter and even more compassionate for on another so that one day they can vote liberal too !

[Puffs Daddy]

It's rather silly to get into a discussion on this topic with so many people who haven't a clue what they're talking about. I usually limit my comments on this sort of thing to boards where the focus is political and the contributors are more informed. But just for the record...

() Saying that the country's "area" is conservative is blatantly absurd. One might as well say that America is made of up of tractor owners because there are more tractors in Nebraska than in Rhode Island.

() Claiming that Obama won the election in 2008 because he appealed primarily to those looking for a handout is similarly absurd considering that he carried demographic groups at the upper end of both education and income. Likewise, claiming that major urban areas were the basis for Obama's victory ignores the fact that in most cases the margin of victory in such metropolitan areas was significantly enhanced if not determined by Obama carrying the wealthier and more highly educated suburbs.

() Neither party and neither candidate in 2008 can claim a monopoly on support from the uninformed. For every youtube video supposedly demonstrating the idiocy of an Obama supporter, there are numerous others demonstrating the level of "sophistication" of attendees at McCain/Palin rallies.

() The fact is that the GOP no longer represents the majority of "hard working" Americans. What it does represent is a significant portion of middle aged white males living in small towns and rural areas. Overall, it has become a rump regional political party that is rapidly aging. (In the last decade those who identify themselves as Republicans has increased by an average of 11 years.) And any political party that relies almost exclusively on the South for its support is by definition a minority in American politics. That was true of the Democrats from 1896 until 1932 and it's true of the GOP now. And any party that fails to attract a significant portion of young voters is literally dying. And that, too, is true of the GOP.

() For many years the GOP managed to win elections by claiming to be (and often demonstrating) its competence as managers of a modern nation state. The Bush II administration largely exploded that myth. And those who value competent management have deserted the party in droves. If and when the party returns to a moderate governing philosophy it will stand a chance of being competitive again. But it's going to take awhile for voters to forget what happened between 2001 and 2009.

() As for the "plague on both houses" libertarians, I've been hearing about the coming "libertarian" wave for the last 40 years. It's a political movement that derives its energy largely from post-adolescent males who spent their time in the audio-visual club in high school. It manages to stay alive because such folks are always available for recruitment. And it never grows because it loses as many adherents as it gains as "libertarians" become acquainted with the real world.

[Scanner]

Latest ABC News/Washington Post poll

               Obama favorability

                   Fav   Unfav

All                 55    37

South            27    68
Rest of USA    67    24

NE                82     7
Midwest         62    30
West            59    32

Democratic Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All          41    51

South     21    72
NE          62    26
Midwest  44    48
West      44    50

Republican Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All          21    67

South     48    37
NE          6    87
Midwest  10    78
West      12    75

[Jeff K]

Latest ABC News/Washington Post poll

               Obama favorability

                   Fav   Unfav

All                 55    37

South            27    68
Rest of USA    67    24

NE                82     7
Midwest         62    30
West            59    32

Democratic Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All          41    51

South     21    72
NE          62    26
Midwest  44    48
West      44    50

Republican Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All          21    67

South     48    37
NE          6    87
Midwest  10    78
West      12    75

Now there is something you can take to the bank! Everyone knows how "fair and balanced" ABC news is!
I feel much better now with the "real" truth out for everyone to see.

[Scanner]

LMAO...I knew you'd attack the poll cause it wasn't a Faux Views poll!!  Darn liberal media!  

Is it possible the reason the overwhelming majority of media news outlets don't cover the stuff Faux spews out is because , hold on to your chair........it isn't true?

[JimL]

P.D.:

 I really would like to engage you further on this, but I simply have meetings much of the afternoon and don't have the time to counter each of your "opinions" with empirical data.  What I refuse to do is to preface my counterpoint with a statement that people simply "haven't a clue what they're talking about" and then attempt to take the high road by saying that it is "silly to get into a discussion on this topic".  Possibly I missed it, but I saw little in the way of empirical data to debunk my assertion.

Scanner:

As far as polls go, they are much like religion and political pundits...there are plenty to go around and it easy to latch on to one that suits ones needs.  Following is a website that accumulates all of the data from the major polling organizations.  I wish I had the time today to calculate the standard deviations of how much these various polling organizations deviate from the mean (if someone has time it would be an interesting exercise).  I can assure you that both Rasmussen (conservative) and ABC (liberal) are off the chart.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

[Puffs Daddy]

P.D.:

 I really would like to engage you further on this, but I simply have meetings much of the afternoon and don't have the time to counter each of your "opinions" with empirical data.  What I refuse to do is to preface my counterpoint with a statement that people simply "haven't a clue what they're talking about" and then attempt to take the high road by saying that it is "silly to get into a discussion on this topic".  Possibly I missed it, but I saw little in the way of empirical data to debunk my assertion.

Scanner:

As far as polls go, they are much like religion and political pundits...there are plenty to go around and it easy to latch on to one that suits ones needs.  Following is a website that accumulates all of the data from the major polling organizations.  I wish I had the time today to calculate the standard deviations of how much these various polling organizations deviate from the mean (if someone has time it would be an interesting exercise).  I can assure you that both Rasmussen (conservative) and ABC (liberal) are off the chart.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Would be happy to discuss polling methodology if you like. Made a living in that field for a number of years. As for aggregation sites, I suggest you take a look at www.pollster.com rather than www.realclearpolitics.com.  Not only is the scope more comprehensive, the aggregation is based on a more accurate regression model rather than the simple averaging used by the latter site. Not only that, but the effects of including and excluding both individual pollsters and polling methods can be demonstrated with tools on the site.

P.S. What you'll find if you investigate further is that the only truly consistent outlier among polling organizations is Rasmussen. The fact that "Real Clear Politics" takes Rasmussen seriously while most other polling professionals don't is perhaps linked to the fact that RCP is a Fox News site.

[JimL]

Would be happy to discuss polling methodology if you like. Made a living in that field for a number of years. As for aggregation sites, I suggest you take a look at www.pollster.com rather than www.realclearpolitics.com.  Not only is the scope more comprehensive, the aggregation is based on a more accurate regression model rather than the simple averaging used by the latter site. Not only that, but the effects of including and excluding both individual pollsters and polling methods can be demonstrated with tools on the site.

P.S. What you'll find if you investigate further is that the only truly consistent outlier among polling organizations is Rasmussen. The fact that "Real Clear Politics" takes Rasmussen seriously while most other polling professionals don't is perhaps linked to the fact that RCP is a Fox News site.

P.D. this is a classic example of why you and I get "crossways" with each other.  When I make a statement, I normally try to back it up with corroborating evidence; even though we may disagree on whether or not the evidence supports my statement.  I have searched Google for the past 5 minutes and can find nothing that supports the assertion that realclearpolitics.com is owned by Fox News (assuming of course that your statement "is a Fox News site" asserts ownership).  Was this your assertion, or was this simply your opinion?  If it is an assertion, where can this be independently verified?

[fstsix]

PD ? Scanner same State, (whatever) witch Public office are you running for? Sounds just like any Politician i have herd, BTW I do live in the NE and you could not for the life of both of your personalities even begin to understand why i am back up here doing contract work so spare me, Having said that Remember NE Republicans HERE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH out of breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. And why would (Not) the mainstream Media report or give any Air time to TEA PARTIES. Go ahead tell me about all of those Republicans In New England. OK on the Island i live on i think about 6 here Take a wild guess. I have a side ache. This should keep us entertained tonight.

[Scanner]

Thanks for your insight fstsix. 

[fstsix]

Your Welcome .Walked right into that when you start the number game. Good to hear from you, With out any personal insults, I cant help but think Penny smart and Dollar stupid, BTW Again 1600 Health Care Ins providers in America, 20 in your State Because...?

[RoadKill]

I really dont believe in statistics and polls anyhow. All I know is Obama got money and Scanner and PuffDaddy want him to gives it to usns that deserves it..Why should any one care where he got it because he gonna hand it out for FREE !  So stop bickering until I gets my money 

[Scanner]

"Asked which president is "more responsible for the current state of the economy," only 18 percent say President Obama. Fifty-eight percent say former President George W. Bush. Nine percent blame both of them. Republicans are the only subgroup of voters who blame Obama, and only by a six-point margin of 35 percent to 29 percent."

By the way, this is a Faux Noise poll.

[RoadKill]

"Asked which president is "more responsible for the current state of the economy," only 18 percent say President Obama. Fifty-eight percent say former President George W. Bush. Nine percent blame both of them. Republicans are the only subgroup of voters who blame Obama, and only by a six-point margin of 35 percent to 29 percent."

By the way, this is a Faux Noise poll.

SEE ! ! Even Fox can't find intelligent life out there! The odds are against you so SHUT IT so I can drink my koolaide and gets me some more free money!

[fstsix]

Scanner now i feel bad :'(. again nobody ever ask me on these polls, Where do we sign up anybody here been asked?. Brother this is just a Motorcycle board i am sure your other cyber friends could stimulate your mind better.How about some pics of your bike?.

[RoadKill]

"Scanner now i feel bad  :'( "

I hope that was as sarcastic as my post  But YES YES YES Lets see some more beautiful Valk pics. this is mine the week before Inzane I'm workin on some more current ones.   



<a href="http://s893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/t-bars_roadkill/?action=view&current=101_0302.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/t-bars_roadkill/101_0302.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Scanner]

Scanner now i feel bad . again nobody ever ask me on these polls, Where do we sign up anybody here been asked?. Brother this is just a Motorcycle board i am sure your other cyber friends could stimulate your mind better.How about some pics of your bike?.

LMAO..After 4 pages it becomes strictly an MC board when something doesn't support what you believe ? That's kinda puny ain't it? But not surprising

[fstsix]

Scanner now i feel bad . again nobody ever ask me on these polls, Where do we sign up anybody here been asked?. Brother this is just a Motorcycle board i am sure your other cyber friends could stimulate your mind better.How about some pics of your bike?.

LMAO..After 4 pages it becomes strictly an MC board when something doesn't support what you believe ? That's kinda puny ain't it? But not surprising

Question? you ever take dance lessons?

[Scanner]

Sorry, you're not my type

[fstsix]

Sorry, you're not my type

Now do i for the first time see some humor .That is funny. (Not only not my type) But my hat is off to you I could never dance as high or fast as you have on any of my Questions. But thanks for your reminder that 82% NE showed up at the TEA PARTIES and Town Hall meetings up here.I will be looking for your campaign for public Office in W.A good luck. We know you dont have bike but you are just to much wit for us  

[Scanner]

hmmm ...questions like this?

"witch Public office are you running for? Sounds just like any Politician i have herd, BTW I do live in the NE and you could not for the life of both of your personalities even begin to understand why i am back up here doing contract work so spare me, Having said that Remember NE Republicans HERE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH out of breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. And why would (Not) the mainstream Media report or give any Air time to TEA PARTIES. Go ahead tell me about all of those Republicans In New England. OK on the Island i live on i think about 6 here Take a wild guess. I have a side ache."

Sorry I can't answer that, much less understand a damn word of it...

http://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_30378/IMG_0698.JPG

[fstsix]

Your Welcome .Walked right into that when you start the number game. Good to hear from you, With out any personal insults, I cant help but think Penny smart and Dollar stupid, BTW Again 1600 Health Care Ins providers in America, 20 in your State Because...?

Classical or Rock maybe Disco Maybe slow dance?

[Scanner]

I don't know if there's 20 or 200 and don't care.  I've had the same insurer for 32 years.

[fstsix]

hmmm ...questions like this?

"witch Public office are you running for? Sounds just like any Politician i have herd, BTW I do live in the NE and you could not for the life of both of your personalities even begin to understand why i am back up here doing contract work so spare me, Having said that Remember NE Republicans HERE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH out of breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. And why would (Not) the mainstream Media report or give any Air time to TEA PARTIES. Go ahead tell me about all of those Republicans In New England. OK on the Island i live on i think about 6 here Take a wild guess. I have a side ache."

Sorry I can't answer that, much less understand a damn word of it...

http://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_30378/IMG_0698.JPG

Oh now its all about bikes when you dont want to support what you believe,Ok well i say its (black) please disagree so i can go to bed.Goodnight.

[RoadKill]

OK...on to page 5 then. Can you puleeeeze explain to me why I should willingly give more money to be redistributed when so much is already squandered and what incentive I have to continue working and paying my medical bills (down under 120 thousand already  ) when I could easily close my business and let you and PuffsDaddy pay it all for me? I have FOUGHT HARD and worked even harder to keep everything I worked hard for and not go bankrupt in the face of falling economy and massive physical reconstructions incurring immense medical expenses ,due to a government freeloader and some lack of sensible oversight into the persons ability to operate a motor vehicle.

THIS is what I got in return for all my tax dollars that provide free medical,food stamps,weekly assistance checks and assisted housing to the woman ATTEMPTING to operate the vehicle that MY TAX DOLLARS INSURED!



Should I just pay more ? Give me a GOOD FREAKIN REASON ! !

[fstsix]

I don't know if there's 20 or 200 and don't care.  I've had the same insurer for 32 years.

Well after 4 pages thats it?? Dont Care? Well i do, Both my Medical Ins co's have had Class actions lawsuits against them, And when i told my Agent, he thinks that this is the norm? sorry, We have the best health care in the world my wife is a walking miracle thanks to many Doctors, But as far as insurance i could use more options But again why cant i have more choices?Hummmm?

[fstsix]

OK...on to page 5 then. Can you puleeeeze explain to me why I should willingly give more money to be redistributed when so much is already squandered and what incentive I have to continue working and paying my medical bills (down under 120 thousand already  ) when I could easily close my business and let you and PuffsDaddy pay it all for me? I have FOUGHT HARD and worked even harder to keep everything I worked hard for and not go bankrupt in the face of falling economy and massive physical reconstructions incurring immense medical expenses ,due to a government freeloader and some lack of sensible oversight into the persons ability to operate a motor vehicle.

THIS is what I got in return for all my tax dollars that provide free medical,food stamps,weekly assistance checks and assisted housing to the woman ATTEMPTING to operate the vehicle that MY TAX DOLLARS INSURED!



Should I just pay more ? Give me a GOOD FREAKIN REASON ! !

Roadkill i was afraid to ask about your bike i seen the picture in the photo stash weeks back OUCH! glad to see and hear you on this board after looking at that, looking at the pics up the page you are getting her back up and a little paint be looking good. You healed up ok?

[RoadKill]

Thx fstsix, I'm good  I just REALLY want some one to explain why the whole taxpaying nation should have to pay more for this! I'm all healed up as gud as it will git 'cept for the minor brain damage that leads to all these barely legible posts on the board and my love for the greatest machine ever to install darkside rubber tracks on asphalt across our great nation!