New Shifter Design "maybe"

[Toovalks]

I've ridden other Honda's, BMW's and Yamaha's over the years.But , I'm having difficulty getting used to the shifter on my Valk ... It's difficult for me to angle a thick toed boot under the lever for up-shifts. I've read many posts here and on GW sites about the  geometry of these shift levers and  . The Heel toe shifters that I've seen have  had a slot that fits around the existing shift lever. I have designed a different HT shift system "I think" that actually connects to the shaft on the side of the tranny with a "HD type" linkage that runs between the engine/exhaust and frame. I have no experience with HT shifters . I have a couple of levers designed and modeled in wood at the moment but having never used one  I'm not sure of the best distance from peg to peg or even how high above the footrest they should sit if above it at all.Anyone's input would be greatly appreciated. By the way... the design uses both parts of existing shift lever system.

[Bighead]

How about just repositioning the existing lever? I have a large foot and never had a problem even with it set the way it came from the factory.

[old2soon]

Size 10 boot steel toe thick soled and I've added a longer Honda shift lever and no problems. AND I'm not at my house where all my records reside. Otherwise I could tell ya Which Honda shift lever I iz usin. Should be back home a week or so into Feb and see if I can find the number of said lever in question. BUT no/none/nada/zero promises!  RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

About the foot to shifter clearance, a number of guys have had the same complaint and some have  reported getting a shifter for a 98-00 Honda CBR1100XX (Black Bird) and swapping them out.  I believe its a bit longer and wider.  If you scroll down in this thread, there's a picture. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=98173.0



And, there's this.  http://bigbf.com/bigbf_shop/shift_peg/

I can offer you no help in your design of a heel toe. 
But there's this:  http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/1800wingshiftermod.pdf

[Toovalks]

I appreciate  the replies . I going to pick up a shift lever for a Blackbird, to try it out.  Part of this exercise is also because I love to think-up and build mods... if they are useful of course. This started when I first saw the configuration of how the Valk shift lever connects to the trans. There were some concerns about the eccentric load on the shaft causing seal leaks, mostly in GW's. Those concerns were largely dismissed here. That coupled with my trouble getting comfortable with the current shifter led me to seek alternatives. You know how you can get attached to an idea??? especially if it's your own???  Well that led to days laying on the floor under Valk 1 ( my POS purchase, not Valk2, the good one) searching for a solution. Necessary or not. There is a  space between the engine/tranny and the frame/exhaust. It seemed the hefty plate to which our footpegs are attached could be drilled and a shaft  and a linkage installed to connect  directly to the transmission. I'm still unsure if this is worth messing with ,but I'm having fun, and if it works ,after input from you guys, maybe others will want to try it

[Houdini]

There's always the forward controls option.

https://www.bigbikethings.com/Forward_Controls/cat4325478_3529118.aspx

[Tx Bohemian]

Fixed mine the "cheap Bohemian" way.

Sawed off the "peg" (the part with the rubber sleeve that you actually contact to shift), drilled a hole in the flat bracket in the same spot where the "sawed off peg" was and installed an all-thread  longer than the peg. (this part can be modified to your likes- longer or shorter) What this does is move the peg out a bit making it easier to get to.

Use all-thread the same diameter as the peg and you can reuse the same rubber sleeve from the old peg. Use a piece of rubber hose to cover up the remaining section of all-thread, although this part is not that visible as it is under the valve cover.
Double nut the all-thread on both sides of the bracket and I used an Acorn nut on the outer side to keep the rubber from slipping off.

It's been a few years now that I've done this and can't remember exactly but I think I made mine around an inch longer and works well for me and is easier to gain access to the shifter. Have no leakage problems.

[John Schmidt]

I'd be more inclined to try adjusting the existing lever up 1-2 notches before doing anything drastic. I wear a size 12 1/2 boot when riding and have no problem with the OEM shifter access.

Keep in mind, using a HT shifting mechanism can create internal problems if not adjusted correctly. Many are set to essentially "slam" the gears into place, thereby causing excess wear on the shifting forks and sliders among other issues. Eventually, you have a transmission that will tend to jump out of gear, especially under load. You exert more shifting pressure with your heel than with your toe. I'm well aware there are many HT systems in use out there and have been working for a long time.

[MarkT]

There were some concerns about the eccentric load on the shaft causing seal leaks, mostly in GW's. Those concerns were largely dismissed here.

Not dismissed.  FIXED years ago.  See http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,79792.0.html

There's a write-up on parts you can buy online and assemble a simple fix to anchor the end of the shifter shaft.  I used that, modified, to fix the problem on Jade.  See http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,81509.0.html



I fixed the eccentric load on the shifter shaft on two of my Valks, and added forward controls to both.  On Deerslayer, I also added a spring-assist to reset the worn internal shift linkage.  Explained & illustrated on youtube, here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltgVugCRfFg

[Roidfingers]

I have a heal toe shifter on my std. I believe it was for a Goldwing, but it fit right up by removing an adapter that came with it. And was only about 75 bucks. I also just have pegs so the height of the shift peg is not that big of issue. If you have floor boards then I could see an issue and they would probably need to be enough so once the shift is complete you are even with boards. Distance between is another factor. I'm a size 12. So with boats on, I sometimes miss the upshift with back heal because I have a little pressure on the toe. If I could I would like it about an inch longer.

Maybe this could be an adjustable distance shifter you fab. Like to steel shafts sliding horizontally to adjust.

[Jess from VA]

I only have 8 1/2 boots, and I always felt the Valk shifter was too small and tucked in.  (not by a lot, but enough).  Made worse with my floorboards.

And, after lifetime on heel toe shifters, I HATE toe shifting (up).  I actually have to scoot up a little on the seat from where I like to sit (all the way back on my seats) to fish around under the shifter to shift up reliably (short legs) (but not down).

So I have been using two Rattlebars heel toe shifters for years, and no problems at all.  I don't smash my heel kicks, most all machinery works better if you don't abuse it.  I downshift with my toe harder than I upshift with my heel (because of that little squirrel of a shift peg, made even shorter with the wraparound Rattlebars).  

[Roidfingers]

I only have 8 1/2 boots, and I always felt the Valk shifter was too small and tucked in.  (not by a lot, but enough).  Made worse with my floorboards.

And, after lifetime on heel toe shifters, I HATE toe shifting (up).  I actually have to scoot up a little on the seat from where I like to sit (all the way back on my seats) to fish around under the shifter to shift up reliably (short legs) (but not down).

So I have been using two Rattlebars heel toe shifters for years, and no problems at all.  I don't smash my heel kicks, most all machinery works better if you don't abuse it.  I downshift with my toe harder than I upshift with my heel (because of that little squirrel of a shift peg, made even shorter with the wraparound Rattlebars).  

Cut the old shift beg off at the weld and grind smooth. Then buy a longer one online and drill a hole where old peg was mounted and attach longer one. Worked for me.

[Toovalks]

Mark T.  ....I didn't mean to imply that no one took to heart the inherent flaw in the eccentric linkage design. On the GW forums there was much ado made about it, as well as some one who made a CNC fix for sale... and said he was going to do the same for the Valk. I don't think that it ever came to pass. Perhaps because there was little interest in the Valkyrie community due to fewer seal problems.
My goal here really is to get feedback from this community where almost all of us actually work on our own bikes.  As with Jess from Va. I have about a 9 boot size and also Have to move forward slightly in order to position my foot for an up-shift. I appreciate the apparent fact that many of us here have come up with solutions . All of them work. Most of these solutions address one or the other of the issues.  I just had a hair-brained idea to try something different. After looking at the geometry of the linkage today, I realized that I could make the HT shifter work either direction (I think) . This means that I could push the front of the lever down to up-shift and vice versa. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with "Backwards Shifting" and just for sake of discussion, what do you think are the pros and cons.??  I seems to me that it may be more intuitive to up-shift by pushing your toe down and then use your heel to come back to neutral and 1ST .

[Bighead]

If it is just a seal problem there isnt one ..... 125k and replaced the seal once ... ost like $3 and 5 minutes to do.

[Jess from VA]

I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with "Backwards Shifting" and just for sake of discussion, what do you think are the pros and cons.??

TwoValks, my first bike was a BSA Lightning which had the shifter and foot brake reversed on each side of the bike (from today's normal).

My next (and all subsequent) bikes had it the (now) normal way.  But for months and months, I was making clutchless downshifts with the wrong foot brake lever.  It took me quite a while to get used to.

After 40+ years of riding, reversing the up and down of a normal heel-toe (or any other) shifter would probably screw me up worse than the first time.  Muscle memory for a motorcycle rider is a very good thing, and directly related to safety and survivability.  I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I can only say the idea is all con, and no pro (at all).  

But every man ought to do what he thinks is right..... for him.

[Toovalks]

Jess thanks for your insights. Hadn't thought about it ,but ,yes, Muscle memory is a very important part of safety for all of us.
 I have never used a HT shifter , yet , so there's going to be a learning curve for me in trying it out and probably others if they changed to HT shifting. I can set it up  normal or "goofy" with just some changes in adjustments ,so I was looking for imput. I'm wondering if anyone has ever been in a position to try it out?? Anyway it can be put back to original condition with just a new shifter linkage and std. foot peg bracket.

[Jess from VA]

There have been a number of heel-toe threads on here over the years.  It is my opinion that folks who have shifted toe-only for most of their lives find they do not like heel-toe.... and many switched back after trying it.  Conversely, most who have had heel toe shifters for most of their lives, cannot stand a toe only shifter (that's me). 

I think this is all about muscle memory.

[The emperor has no clothes]

There have been a number of heel-toe threads on here over the years.  It is my opinion that folks who have shifted toe-only for most of their lives find they do not like heel-toe.... and many switched back after trying it.  Conversely, most who have had heel toe shifters for most of their lives, cannot stand a toe only shifter (that's me). 

I think this is all about muscle memory.

Agreed. Count me in the toe shifter category. I had a heel toe shifter once. Hardly ever used the heel.

[Houdini]

There have been a number of heel-toe threads on here over the years.  It is my opinion that folks who have shifted toe-only for most of their lives find they do not like heel-toe.... and many switched back after trying it.  Conversely, most who have had heel toe shifters for most of their lives, cannot stand a toe only shifter (that's me). 

I think this is all about muscle memory.

Agreed. Count me in the toe shifter category. I had a heel toe shifter once. Hardly ever used the heel.

+1 for toe shifting.  I had a heel/toe shifter once and hated it, mostly due to my big feet not fitting between the shifter pegs and I had to ride with my foot cocked and toes sticking out.  H/T shifters are not designed for 12.5 boots.

[Jess from VA]

There have been a number of heel-toe threads on here over the years.  It is my opinion that folks who have shifted toe-only for most of their lives find they do not like heel-toe.... and many switched back after trying it.  Conversely, most who have had heel toe shifters for most of their lives, cannot stand a toe only shifter (that's me). 

I think this is all about muscle memory.

Agreed. Count me in the toe shifter category. I had a heel toe shifter once. Hardly ever used the heel.

+1 for toe shifting.  I had a heel/toe shifter once and hated it, mostly due to my big feet not fitting between the shifter pegs and I had to ride with my foot cocked and toes sticking out.  H/T shifters are not designed for 12.5 boots.

Yep, that's me.  Though with an 8.5 boot, it doesn't stick out that far.  Additional muscle memory causes me to tuck that toe in on hard twisty left turns, lest it get drug off the board, which is really hard on the left knee.  But it's all what you're used to.  Hog floorboards (and Japanese cruisers too) have longer boards, and wider heel toe shifters. 

[Bagger John - #3785]

So I have been using two Rattlebars heel toe shifters for years, and no problems at all.  I don't smash my heel kicks, most all machinery works better if you don't abuse it.  I downshift with my toe harder than I upshift with my heel (because of that little squirrel of a shift peg, made even shorter with the wraparound Rattlebars).  

Size 13 boots here.

I either repositioned my OEM shifter arms (early in my Valkyrie ownership) or got ahold of Kick Shifters and modified a spare shifter arm to take a Kuryakyn Iso-Shifter Peg. The Kick Shifter engages a pair of bronze flange bearings, stacked front-to-front. A selection of shims, spacers and washers on the shoulder bolt which holds everything in place allow the flange bearings to rotate, reducing the tendency to bind - and thus, reducing the effort required to shift.

Upshifts require a bit of mental conditioning on the rider's part. I've always tried to hit the syncro points in these transmissions when changing gears up or down, and if you do it properly they just snick into the next gear with minimal effort.

Thus far, no issues. If I feel the Kick Shifters are causing erratic shifting I won't hesitate to pull them off the bikes - but if I do my part they seem to do theirs with little force needed.

[MarkT]

Size 12 feet.  I've found most vehicles that require foot control are made for smaller feet.  Esp jap cars with manual shift. Or even the wife's Mazda CX5 automatic.  Not to mention fitting my 6ft beer barrel frame in there.  Can't imagine how bad it is for you 6ft 5 guys or bigger feet.  I have a cousin with size 16 feet who is like an alien on the planet.  Then there's hotel beds and doorways.  How do really obese people use a std toilet.  Not to mention even reaching back there.  But that's not fitting into outside equipment.  I had a friend who used to go on our WI deer hunting / camp trips who was grossly obese.  He didn't hunt very well but he once got his dirty laundry mixed up with my current hunting buddy.  Who was totally grossed out as the former couldn't reach back there so the skivvies filled in for the T.P.  Literally.  Gaack.

I have Deerslayer and Jade set up with forward controls.  They are perfectly positioned for my frame - not a compromise to fit the avg rider like the lower OEM controls.  I also changed the leverage ratios on both sides.  My feet are up there all the time unless it's too cold.  Both bikes are set up to fit me - windshield, hand position, lever angles, custom seat, foot position, air management, aux instruments - and are considerably more comfy than my wing on long rides.

My first bike - a Yamaha 60 back in '69 - had a HT shifter.  2nd bike - a Ducati - was a toe shifter with the wrong side / pattern IIRC - same as a Norton.  



I'm SO glad they standardized that.  Muscle memory is a big thing esp when you need to react fast.