Transmission troubles?

[Firefight100]

I have had this symptom happen maybe 5 or 8 times.  I cant reproduce it at will. 
Wondering if anyone has had this.  2014 .
When slowing down rapidly in a low gear, 2nd or 3rd, The transmission disconnects!  I have no
engine braking and rpms drop to idle.  And it is not a smooth feeling.  Like it will grab and then
release.  Feels like it is jumping out of gear, but when I give it gas it accelerates normally.
I can not reproduce this when I try.
I dont want to take it in since it is not reproducable and infrequent in happening. 
Any ideas?  All maintenance is up to date and it has 19k miles.

[Kidd]

Mine has done something like this , it seems familiar and it's  rare  .
I'd say forget it until something breaks . Try to understand  if it is something you are doing and try  not to make  it happen . It could be something you are doing , not shifting cleanly ?

How many times has it happened ?
I'll bet 5 or  6 times   as mine has done  in 25K miles

[ledany]

My Valk has 51,400 mls on the clock and this thing happens easily, riding at 62 mls/h then rapidly downshifting from 5th to 4th or 3rd cornering, it may suddenly look like the gearbox is neutral. I guess it's the ECU which disapproves of my riding 

[hubcapsc]

A funny thing like this happens on my 1500 and 1800 when downshifting +
engine braking... assuming that what I experience occasionally is the
same thing you're describing, I figure it is just a symptom of that last
downshift coming slightly too soon.

-Mike "or in Ledany's case, slamming down a few gears at 65  "

[Firefight100]

Well it is comforting to know I am not imagining this. 
At first I thought maybe the bike had a slipper clutch.  But I can find no evidence of that.

[Bill Havins]

....Feels like it is jumping out of gear, but when I give it gas it accelerates normally....

Tell me more about this, please.  Are you saying it seems to end the engine braking (i.e., seems to slip into neutral), but, when you give it gas it is obviously still in gear (i.e., "accelerates normally")?

I have not experienced such but, admittedly, I don't ride like Ledany.  

Robert, where are you?  To me (and I have nothing to base this on) this does sound like an ECU thing that works to ensure you don't "float the valves" as we used to call it.  Perhaps it's a "rev limiter V2" -> if rider downshifts too far at elevated vehicle speed then cut fuel to idle level until rider becomes bewildered -> this will allow time for the vehicle speed to reduce, ensuring that the speed of the drivetrain does not cause the valves to float.

Naw, that ain't it, because the description sounds like the engine speed changes and "loses" input (effect) of the speed of the drivetrain (the rear wheel is still turning).

Gotta' be mechanical/electromechanical, somehow.

It will be interesting to read what others think of this.  A puzzle for a winter day.

Bill

[ledany]

Tss tss Bill ! I'm a really cool rider, see how I equipped my GSX-R ! 

[Robert]

When Honda did our transmissions it remade the clutch dogs and made them stronger. This bike really doesn't need the clutch to engage in gear. It will go out of and into gear pretty easily and I think sometimes to easily.

But,

I think I have experienced the same thing a few times and couldn't decide if the engine really was in neutral or not on deaccel. I was like, HUH, whats happening and then hit the throttle to see if she connects and she just pics up like there's nothing wrong. I thought the engine died or something because it goes completely smooth like the engine is not running. Its kind of funny because you aren't quite sure whats going on.

The only thing that throws me off with your experience is it goes to idle. I would want that verified and I have never when that happened looked at my tach to see what rpm she is at. If on deaccel you slow down so much and are in a gear that would normally be at that speed in idle and the fuel injectors cut back in that could be the issue your experiencing also. I have been going to fast to experience a idle speed when I felt it.

I have never when that happened had to change gears, or hit the shifter for her to come to life again either and she never died on me or stopped running. It was just a momentary is she still running feeling. Its so quick that its really hard to pin point also, especially with no other symptoms.

What I do know is that on deaccel  these bikes do have a some kind of pollution valve that opens and closes and that can cause the check engine light to flip on. I have also on a bit long deaccel had the bike jerked a couple of times pretty hard also. There was one guy here that was out west and went down a hill and had this happen to him a few times and the check engine light came on and was gone on the next start up and  I have experienced this condition also.

Most of the real bad emissions come when decelerating so they use a valve that opens to bring air into the manifold on high vacuum and they stop the injectors since they are not needed and these 2 actions cut emissions but may be the cause of what we are feeling.

I seriously doubt its anything to be concerned with but I would check the rpms/gear that this happens with to see if there is a correlation. I would also the minute you feel this put on a small amount of throttle to see if you can change the feel and then see if you can accelerate without touching the shifter.

I personally believe bringing it to the dealer will not result in much help but it wouldn't hurt to ask. Maybe there is some kind of reflash for the engine ECU that would help. If it does indeed pop out of gear then back in I would have that checked out but that doesn't sound like whats going on. I believe all this can be traced back to the engine programing on deaccel since on this bike the ecu programing and code is different than the wing along with the fuel system so they cut a few corners that maybe they shouldn't have.

While somewhat annoying I have not spent the effort to determine a cause since it happens so infrequently and while on a ride, I frankly dont care as long as the bike keeps going and its not a safety issue either. I dont like the deaccel issue but it seems the computer may learn how we drive and adjust accordingly since these Engine computers do indeed learn within parameters and since mine has not done it with the same conditions again.

I purposely tried to duplicate the issue at first and did get it to do its thing. But eventually I could not get it to do it again with all the same things going on. I was either going to find the cause, bring it to the dealer or do something about it but it went away.

I have 26k on my bike and she is smoother now than ever, I love when we get on a open road and we get to cruising altitude and there isn't a shake or rattle and she just hummms down the road. It does continue to break in since I have felt mine change even fairly recently, since she had never been that smooth in the past. I love this bike.

[Firefight100]

So I wanted to reply.  There is nothing in the ECM's control that could cause this.  And I did further research and have come up with what is happening.  This is exactly the problem.  The transmission is jumping out of gear under decel and popping back in gear under acel. 
And as a side note, like this article I did have one time where I went to accelerate and the thing downshifted by itself!.  I passed it off as maybe my foot hit the shifter.  But after reading this, I now know what happened.  Seems to be a long time known problem.  At least I know it's not me.
http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22766

This site has the problem defined to a T.  Good reading
http://www.justwings.com/Complaints.html

[Bill Havins]

Well, okay then.  It would appear to be mechanical according to the many posters in the linked thread.

We need to find out about the machine shop mentioned in that thread....see if he's still rebuilding trannys.

Good luck!

Bill

[Robert]

Just so you know the 2014 transmissions did get some upgrades and they even mention it in the article. Honda knew they had a problem but the 14's were the first to get mods to the transmissions that was supposed to address this and other issues.When researching for this bike I had come across the problem with the trans issues and will try to find the article that I have that tells what Honda did starting the 14's that improved the issue. The bike in the article is an 02 so not to say you dont have a problem but maybe the solution is different. Like maybe a bent fork not holding the dog securely in gear. If it does come out of gear have you ever tried to come to a complete stop the bike without using the clutch or hitting the shifter to verify its in neutral or disengaged?

Below a post from a person at the forum, Greg that is a supporting vendor.

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/5-gl1800-tech-board/321865-transmission-diagram-explanation.html

Interesting. The 2014 has the new redesigned 4th and 5th gears with all high dogs. Maybe what Greg posted really is true, and the machining on the dogs is off by several degrees on the new gears. Makes me wonder if Honda didn't try to fix one problem and create another one. My gut feeling is that they have concentrated too much on mass production, and the machining of critical transmission parts has suffered as a result.

I've ridden several 2014, 15, and 16 models bikes, and all the ones I've been on have felt to me like they had a much more positive 4th/5th gear engagement. Could be you got one with badly machined dogs like Greg said he found.

This was posted by another poster at the same site. 

If you look at the damage on the old dogs, it isn't hard to imagine how it happened. With the "high/low" dog arrangement, when a collision of the mating dogs occurs on the top of the low dog, the gear simply slips until the higher surface of the next dog slams into the matting dog. This also explains the "double shift feel" owners sometime feel when shifting into 5th. My guess would be that "double shift feel" is a good indication of a dog collision. With all high dogs as the newer bikes have, when a collision occurs, it may simple let the gear spin and result in a false nuetral or you have to keep applying force until the dogs line up and it can slip in place.

[Firefight100]

I did file a complaint with the U.S. DOT National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.  This is a fairly common problem with the 1800 Honda's.  And it is in excess of $4000. for Honda to repair as it requires a mostly all new transmission.
If and when it goes, it can leave you sitting at the side of the road awaiting a tow! Or at worst, when you slow down to make a left turn in front of oncoming traffic, and see your opening and go to accelerate and boom!  You are in false neutral with no power in the wrong lane with traffic coming!  Not a good feeling.  This was what happened to me the other day that prompted me to write.
I suggest anyone who is experiencing this issue to do the same a file a report. Honda is aware of this issue. 
The fix made to the 2014 transmissions evidently did not fix the problem, unless I got a left over 2013 tranny.
I have lots of warranty left, but I don't relish having my bike laid up for months to repair.  It is my daily transportation.

[Robert]

I did file a complaint with the U.S. DOT National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.  This is a fairly common problem with the 1800 Honda's.  And it is in excess of $4000. for Honda to repair as it requires a mostly all new transmission.
If and when it goes, it can leave you sitting at the side of the road awaiting a tow! Or at worst, when you slow down to make a left turn in front of oncoming traffic, and see your opening and go to accelerate and boom!  You are in false neutral with no power in the wrong lane with traffic coming!  Not a good feeling.  This was what happened to me the other day that prompted me to write.
I suggest anyone who is experiencing this issue to do the same a file a report. Honda is aware of this issue. 
The fix made to the 2014 transmissions evidently did not fix the problem, unless I got a left over 2013 tranny.
I have lots of warranty left, but I don't relish having my bike laid up for months to repair.  It is my daily transportation.

Glad you got it kind of sorted out and hope the repair will be fast and soon. Let us know what happens 

[zackod]

Hey Fire.   At around 10k, My Valk was jumping out of gear when I got on the gas hard while in 2nd or 3rd gear.    I'd hear a loud 'bang' upon dis-engage, bike would shake, then transmission would drop right back into same gear.  The key for me was the dealership could replicate the issue at will.   Guessing if you dealer can't experience your issue when they test ride, u r in for a fight.    Teardown revealed bent shifter forks - two i think.    5 of 10 gears replaced also.  Cost was $3,400, of which i paid zero. Your 4k estimate is spot on.  Of course i had to endure the dealers 'you caused it by bad shifting, but we'll fix' comment.  Whatever.    Zero issues since.  I am at 20k.   Hope you get your issue fixed.   

[Bill Havins]

As a point of interest, I wonder how many GL1800 riders who have transmission issues shift from neutral to first when the engine is cold and is running?  The "CLUNK" that you get from that (shifting into first when the engine is cold) can't be doing anything any good.

Before I start the engine for the first time each day I shift into first and hold the clutch in; I then engage the starter.  As a matter of fact, that's how I always start the engine.

Reactions?

Bill

[ledany]

I start in second most of the time 

[turboyoshi]

As a point of interest, I wonder how many GL1800 riders who have transmission issues shift from neutral to first when the engine is cold and is running?  The "CLUNK" that you get from that (shifting into first when the engine is cold) can't be doing anything any good.

Before I start the engine for the first time each day I shift into first and hold the clutch in; I then engage the starter.  As a matter of fact, that's how I always start the engine.

Reactions?

Bill

I would really like to know about this too. I've tried different things to get rid of that CLUNK. It really is aggravating. My normal habit has been to start the bike in neutral, then let it warm up a bit and then shift.  Sometimes I get a smooth shift and other times I get the clunk, but the process does not seem to be repeatable. Sometimes I start in 1rst, sometimes in 2nd. I can't find a routine that avoids the clunk. Even if I start the bike in gear, then let it warm up, I get the clunk. Sometimes I don't let it warm up when I shift, sometimes I get the clunk, sometimes i don't. I really would like to know what's going on here.

[KUGO]

"At around 10k, My Valk was jumping out of gear when I got on the gas hard while in 2nd or 3rd gear.    I'd hear a loud 'bang' upon dis-engage, bike would shake, then transmission would drop right back into same gear.  The key for me was the dealership could replicate the issue at will.   Guessing if you dealer can't experience your issue when they test ride, u r in for a fight.    Teardown revealed bent shifter forks - two i think.    5 of 10 gears replaced also.  Cost was $3,400, of which i paid zero."


My '14 Valk is still under 6,000 miles, and this thread has recreated that nagging issue of extended warranties all over again. (Search previous threads.) My warranty is up this June. The previous conclusion was the extra $1,000 or so for the extended warranty (3 years?) wasn't worth the bet. Any new thoughts, Anyone?

[Firefight100]

If anyone doubts the number of bikes experiencing this problem, just do a google search for Goldwing Ghost shifting.  While it is not in the thousands, it is more than I thought it would be.  And many people still believe it is do to sloppy shifting.  Also go to Justwings.com for further explanations of the problem. There was a class action lawsuit for this problem that got kicked back for refiling.  But I do not see that it was ever refiled.

[bscrive]

Transmissions can have issues just like anything else.  The big problem is that people will post when they have problems, but not those that don'e have any problems.  The issue can get overblown as perception is narrowed.

When I had a 99 Valkyrie Interstate, the big issue was hydrolock.  It worried the crap out of me, but in the 12 years that I owned the bike it never hydrolocked once.  Sometimes we put too much worry on things that may never be.  Just because someone had that problem doesn't mean that you, or I ever will.  There are plenty of Goldwings with hundreds of thousands of miles without and tranny problems. 

If the extended warranty will give you piece of mind, then it is worth it.  For me, I choose to wait and see.  I really think that tranny issues are an overblown issue.  Now that I say that, watch my tranny explode.