Have you ever witnessed or experienced a bona fide miracle?

[Chrisj CMA]

Although this is a good discussion,  I am a little surprised that nobody has mentioned the miracle that every born again Christian has personally witnessed.

When a person comes to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior God performs a miracle.

Gods word says at that moment the person is an all new creature/creation. In fact God himself is so proud of his own handiwork that it says “behold...all is made new”

If you haven’t been changed by God (a miracle) you haven’t been saved.

Although I didn't say it in exactly those words, I said:

The true miracles that I have seen are the changes that God makes in the hearts of people who repent and believe.

While I completely agree with you about the miracle of salvation, I did specifically ask people to relate physical miracles that couldn't be denied by a reasonable skeptic.

My bad Graphon. I missed that sentence about the repented. However, I disagree that the miracle of salvation is easily debatable by a sceptic. God changes the person in ways that glorify himself so none can deny and all will know he is God

The problem is that so many profess to be christian but are unchanged. Sceptics can rightly question the occurrence of a miracle in those instances.

[98valk]

Yes!!!  all of the time.

So...tell us of the most indisputably miraculous one.

Throughout Scripture we read about scoffers and as time goes on there will be more and more of them. They are everywhere in America. Go and check out a Christian vs atheist debate on YouTube and you will find them. Check out Dan Barker vs Todd Friel debate. These mockers make blasphemous God posters and images. They don’t desire to know the truth. They brush the truth off, laugh, and say lame jokes like you believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

Do not make company with scoffers. If you desire to be a disciple of Christ you will be scoffed at by the world because you take a stand against evil. You will get persecuted for Christ, but there will be a time when every scoffer will be trembling in fear and think back about every idle word that came out of their mouth. God will never be mocked.

The plans for many unbelievers will be to accept Christ on their death bed, but you can’t pull a fast one on God. Many people think, “I’ll scoff now and keep my sins and later I’ll become a Christian.” Many will be in for a rude awaking. A scoffer is a blind man filled with pride who walks with delight on the road to hell. Be very careful because these days many scoffers claim to be Christian.

 
The last days

Jude 1:17-20 “Dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ said before. They said to you, “In the last times there will be people who laugh about God, following their own evil desires which are against God.” These are the people who divide you, people whose thoughts are only of this world, who do not have the Spirit. But dear friends, use your most holy faith to build yourselves up, praying in the Holy Spirit.”

2 Peter 3:3-8 “First, you must understand this: In the last days people who follow their own desires will appear. These disrespectful people will ridicule God’s promise by saying, “What’s happened to his promise to return? Ever since our ancestors died, everything continues as it did from the beginning of the world.” They are deliberately ignoring one fact: Because of God’s word, heaven and earth existed a long time ago. The earth appeared out of water and was kept alive by water. Water also flooded and destroyed that world. By God’s word, the present heaven and earth are designated to be burned. They are being kept until the day ungodly people will be judged and destroyed. Dear friends, don’t ignore this fact: One day with the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.”


Punishment

3. Proverbs 19:29 “Punishment is made for mockers, and the backs of fools are made to be beaten.”

4. Proverbs 18:6-7 “A fool’s words bring strife, and his mouth invites fighting. A fool’s mouth is his unraveling, and his lips entrap himself.”

5. Proverbs 26:3-5 “A whip is for the horses, a bridle is for the donkey, a rod is for the back of fools. Don’t answer a fool according to his foolishness, or you will be just like him. Answer a fool according to his foolishness, or he will think himself to be wise.”

6. Isaiah 28:22 “But as for you, don’t start mocking, or your chains will become tighter; for I have heard from the Lord of the Heavenly Armies about destruction, and it is decreed against the whole land.”

 
Reminders

7. Proverbs 29:7-9 “The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it. Scornful men bring a city into a snare: but wise men turn away wrath. If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.”

8. Proverbs 3:32-35 “For the devious are an abomination to the LORD; But He is intimate with the upright. The curse of the LORD is on the house of the wicked, But He blesses the dwelling of the righteous. Though He scoffs at the scoffers, Yet He gives grace to the afflicted. The wise will inherit honor, But fools display dishonor.”

Blessed

9. Psalm 1:1-4 “Great blessings belong to those who don’t listen to evil advice, who don’t live like sinners, and who don’t join those who make fun of God. Instead, they love the Lord’s teachings and think about them day and night. So they grow strong, like a tree planted by a stream— a tree that produces fruit when it should and has leaves that never fall. Everything they do is successful. But the wicked are not like that. They are like chaff that the wind blows away.”

 

You can’t rebuke rebellious scoffers. They will say stop judging, bigot, you’re a legalist, etc.

10. Proverbs 13:1 “A wise child accepts a parent’s discipline; a mocker refuses to listen to correction.”

11. Proverbs 9:6-8 “Leave off, simple ones [forsake the foolish and simpleminded] and live! And walk in the way of insight and understanding. He who rebukes a scorner heaps upon himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man gets for himself bruises. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you.”

12. Proverbs 15:12 “The evil one does not love him that rebukes him, and he does not walk with the wise.”

God is not mocked

13. Philippians 2:8-12 “He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death even death on a cross! As a result God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow —in heaven and on earth and under the earth— and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

14.  Galatians 6:7-8 “Do not be deceived. God will not be made a fool. For a person will reap what he sows, because the person who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.”

15. Romans 14:11-12 “For it is written, ‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God.” Therefore, each of us will give an account of himself to God.”

 
Things they say

16.  Psalm 73:11-13 “Then they say, “How can God know? Does the Most High have knowledge?” Just look at these wicked people! They’re perpetually carefree as they increase their wealth. I kept my heart pure for nothing and kept my hands clean from guilt.”

17. Isaiah 5:18-19 “What sorrow for those who drag their sins behind them with ropes made of lies, who drag wickedness behind them like a cart! They even mock God and say, “Hurry up and do something! We want to see what you can do. Let the Holy One of Israel carry out his plan, for we want to know what it is.”

18. Jeremiah 17:15 “They keep saying to me, ‘Where is the word of the LORD? Let it now be fulfilled!'”

 
Reminders

19. 1 Peter 3:15 “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.”

 
Examples

20. Luke 16:13-14 “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” The Pharisees, who dearly loved their money, heard all this and scoffed at him. Then he said to them, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God.”

21. Psalm 73:5-10 “They are not in trouble like others; they are not afflicted like most people. Therefore, pride is their necklace, and violence covers them like a garment. Their eyes bulge out from fatness; the imaginations of their hearts run wild. They mock, and they speak maliciously; they arrogantly threaten oppression. They set their mouths against heaven, and their tongues strut across the earth. Therefore His people turn to them and drink in their overflowing words.”

22. Job 16:20 “My friends scorn me; my eye pours out tears to God.”

23.  Isaiah 28:14-15 “Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you mockers who rule this people in Jerusalem. For you said, “We have cut a deal with Death, and we have made an agreement with Sheol; when the overwhelming scourge passes through, it will not touch us, because we have made falsehood our refuge and have hidden behind treachery.”

24. Acts 13:40-41 “So beware that what is said in the prophets does not happen to you: Look, you scoffers, marvel and vanish away, because I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will never believe, even if someone were to explain it to you.”

25. Proverbs 1:22-26 “How long, foolish ones, will you love ignorance? How long will you mockers enjoy mocking and you fools hate knowledge? If you respond to my warning, then I will pour out my spirit on you and teach you my words. Since I called out and you refused, extended my hand and no one paid attention, since you neglected all my counsel and did not accept my correction, I, in turn, will laugh at your calamity. I will mock when terror strikes you.”


John 15:18–19 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.”

[Wizzard]

Thermos bottles are a miracle.

Keep hot things hot, and cold things cold.

How do they know?

Yeah,, well try putting in a pint of Chili and a pint of ice cream. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Thermos bottles are a miracle.

Keep hot things hot, and cold things cold.

How do they know?

Yeah,, well try putting in a pint of Chili and a pint of ice cream.  

Lol. If one could retrieve hot chili and then cold ice cream from the same thermos that would truly be a miracle.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yes!!!  all of the time.

So...tell us of the most indisputably miraculous one.

Any for you Kevin ?

I've experienced times where it was obvious that God arranged circumstances to achieve His purpose, often to increase faith within His children. 

I experienced something when I was 14 that seems trivial to some people that I hav related the story to. So, to be honest I don’t really tell many people about it anymore. I never considered it a “miracle” though and still don’t. But it had a profound impact on me and will forever be part of who I am.

[bscrive]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  Probably because it is a ridiculous notion.  Usually, the person is thankful that something worst didn't happen.  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  These guardian angel must be sleeping at the switch, or they must be sadistic creatures.
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  I can think of something else in your bible that would do such things though if it existed.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  Probably because it is a ridiculous notion.  Usually, the person is thankful that something worst didn't happen.  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  These guardian angel must be sleeping at the switch, or they must be sadistic creatures.
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  I can think of something else in your bible that would do such things though if it existed.

I don’t know about others. But I look at the term “guardian angel” as a metaphor for something that protected you from harm. Whether it be just dumb luck or Devine intervention, neither pisses me off. I will accept all the protection I can receive. 

[Oss]

The story about Abraham's servant asking help to find a wife for Isaac was the reason for my 2 example
Unlike him I had to wait a few more years to find mine

[Chrisj CMA]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  Probably because it is a ridiculous notion.  Usually, the person is thankful that something worst didn't happen.  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  These guardian angel must be sleeping at the switch, or they must be sadistic creatures.
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  I can think of something else in your bible that would do such things though if it existed.

You can’t see because you don’t believe.

[Gryphon Rider]

Yes!!!  all of the time.

So...tell us of the most indisputably miraculous one.

Throughout Scripture we read about scoffers and as time goes on there will be more and more of them. They are everywhere in America. Go and check out a Christian vs atheist debate on YouTube and you will find them. Check out Dan Barker vs Todd Friel debate. These mockers make blasphemous God posters and images. They don’t desire to know the truth. They brush the truth off, laugh, and say lame jokes like you believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

Do not make company with scoffers. If you desire to be a disciple of Christ you will be scoffed at by the world because you take a stand against evil. You will get persecuted for Christ, but there will be a time when every scoffer will be trembling in fear and think back about every idle word that came out of their mouth. God will never be mocked.

The plans for many unbelievers will be to accept Christ on their death bed, but you can’t pull a fast one on God. Many people think, “I’ll scoff now and keep my sins and later I’ll become a Christian.” Many will be in for a rude awaking. A scoffer is a blind man filled with pride who walks with delight on the road to hell. Be very careful because these days many scoffers claim to be Christian.

I have to assume that your reply is directed at me, but I'm not entirely sure why; I know I haven't mocked anyone's story in this thread.  I asked people for their stories of miracles, specifically those that couldn't be rejected by skeptics (or mocked) as coincidence or scientifically explainable.  You said you experience such miracles all the time.  I'm sure many (except bscrive, apparently) would be delighted to hear about them, so I asked you for your best (most miraculous, least disputable) story.  Why am I so specific about that?  Because I know there are some very bright people and some very skeptical people (some who are both) who read this board, and I'd rather not have sincere stories of profound importance to the teller mocked.

Perhaps you consider the fictional examples I gave to be mocking?  That was not my intention.  I made some of them humorous and put some of our members into the stories simply to make them a little entertaining and memorable; maybe I missed the mark.  I know I should have thought to put bscrive in one of them somehow. 

I'm still interested to read about one of the many miracles you've experienced.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I thought your examples were quite humorous. 

[Serk]

Perhaps you consider the fictional examples I gave to be mocking?  That was not my intention.  I made some of them humorous and put some of our members into the stories simply to make them a little entertaining and memorable; maybe I missed the mark.  I know I should have thought to put bscrive in one of them somehow. 

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone more militantly anti-religion than myself (Although I try to temper that with sensitivity that belief gives many people I consider my friends comfort) and I found the examples humorous, was even honored to be used in one.

[Gryphon Rider]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  Probably because it is a ridiculous notion.  Usually, the person is thankful that something worst didn't happen.  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  These guardian angel must be sleeping at the switch, or they must be sadistic creatures.
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  I can think of something else in your bible that would do such things though if it existed.

Many think that for God to exist, His goal must be to prevent all suffering, or at least the suffering of those who claim to follow Him, in the here and now.  No Christian who is familiar with and believes God's Word thinks this to be true.  What we do know, is that, "for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28 ESV), regardless of whether what we experience is suffering or pleasure.  We can, however, be sure of this for those who belong to Him in the eternal state:
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:4 ESV

[Willow]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  ...  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  ...
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  ...

To answer your questions, it annoys you probably because of envy.  You believe you don't have a guardian angel and you're probably right.

Because so much in life contributes to who and what we become.  Growth comes more often than not from apparently bad experiences.  A guardian angel who protected one from an injurious experience that would have improved his perspective or worth would not be doing his job, would he?  Everyone obviously eventually dies.  If the job of the guardian angel is to protect from ALL harm there would be a lot of really old people walking around.  When it's time it's time.  Until then finding oneself at the door will likely have an impact on what we do or don't believe about life and our purpose in it. 

In that last phrase I would suggest you substitute assume for think.

As for me, one of the traits I've lost involves any concern for how what I say may annoy you.     It's an improvement.

[f6john]

I think it’s safe to say that literally millions of people have lived and died without the saving grace from the shedding of blood and death of Christ on the cross. I’m fairly certain that millions have lived and died with the knowledge in their heart and mind that their sins were forgiven and paid for by Christ’s sacrifice. As far as I know none of them have returned to tell of their experiences good or bad. I know “religion” is constantly under attack usually due to some indiscretion done by a individual or congregation that is hard to defend, that’s why I seldom refer to religion.

What’s important is a personal relationship with our Savior. First you have to have an open heart and mind. Then to have to actively search for the truth of his plan for your life and his plan of salvation. While not the best or easiest way to accomplish this, it can be done without ever setting foot in a church. You have to have a roadmap of course and it exists in the Bible. Everything you need to know can be found there. The only caveat to this is you must approach your study of the scriptures with a true desire to experience God in your personal life.

At some point once you come to the knowledge that God loves you and wants the best for you, you will want to share the good news. That is one of the most rewarding parts of being a Christian, the joy of sharing the good news. At some point you might seek out others and share your experiences and help others understand the change in your life. You might even want to join a church family and become a teacher or some other helper.

Free will comes into play when we become of age. The door is open to anyone willing to accept salvation and everyone is free to reject it. A very important issue that everyone should spend considerable time pondering what’s really important for themselves and by extension their families.

My parents did their job and made sure I was exposed to all the information I needed to understand to Gods love for me and his plan of salvation for my life. I haven’t done nearly as thorough a job with my son but he knows what he needs to know. I’m pulling up roots and moving to be able to be as involved with my grandsons as possible including making sure they know what God did for them. No more important task for me as I need for them to be able to make that free will choice to accept his saving grace and live in joy.

[Robert]

Free will, choice, is I believe the reason that God does not step in sooner. I have seen rebellious sons and daughters get into trouble and their father stand there and do nothing. So if God holds all the cards what does He have to worry about? He told us what to choose, He laid the choices in front of us but gave us the free will to accept or deny the offer with all the consequences that come with it. For we are but dust and one day to the dust we will return in our physical body but our spirit will return to Him who formed us before the foundation of the earth. So really, You came from Him, You will return to Him and everything in the middle is our choice.

Deu 30:11  “This command I am giving you today is not too difficult for you, and it is not beyond your reach.
Deu 30:12  It is not kept in heaven, so distant that you must ask, ‘Who will go up to heaven and bring it down so we can hear it and obey?’
Deu 30:13  It is not kept beyond the sea, so far away that you must ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to bring it to us so we can hear it and obey?’
Deu 30:14  No, the message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart so that you can obey it.

Deu 30:15  “Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.

Deu 30:16  For I command you this day to love the LORD your God and to keep his commands, decrees, and regulations by walking in his ways. If you do this, you will live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you and the land you are about to enter and occupy.
Deu 30:17  “But if your heart turns away and you refuse to listen, and if you are drawn away to serve and worship other gods,
Deu 30:18  then I warn you now that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live a long, good life in the land you are crossing the Jordan to occupy.
Deu 30:19  “Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!
Deu 30:20  You can make this choice by loving the LORD your God, obeying him, and committing yourself firmly to him. This is the key to your life. And if you love and obey the LORD, you will live long in the land the LORD swore to give your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

AS it was in Moses day it is even easier today to accept the choice to accept the Lord in your life and all that comes with it. God has many gifts, experiences and battles for us to go through and with Him we win. Otherwise many times we go it not alone but without the full armor of God, or with all the benefits, gifts, love, and help we need to make it through things.

Jas 4:14  How do you know what your life will be like tomorrow? Your life is like the morning fog—it’s here a little while, then it’s gone.

God has always been there in my life, I just didn't really understand Him or my life. My parents did not speak of God and I know really didnt have a relationship with Him. It was He who asked me to come when I was 10. It was Him who protected me in my life in situations that I could have gotten seriously hurt. It was Him that warned me of an impending bad situation and I didn't understand the consequences of my decisions and where they would ultimately take me. That is how it is with decisions, we dont know what the ripple effect will be in our lives of some seemingly small decisions. I look back now and realize who was there for me all the time yet I never gave the credit to Him. He didn't save me from the consequences of my decisions but He never left me and helped me through each one so I could understand and make decisions that agree with His.

Honestly there is no defeat with God, even in the worst situations God can turn them around or help you through them. Some of the seemingly worst situations were the ones I was happiest in. Even in death we win since we will be with God and our saved loved ones will be there also.

So with those who are not saved, how can you see something you dont understand? You have to understand it to interpret it, grasp it and bring it into your life. But with God He is the one that opens our understanding and allows us to see and understand Him. This comes by our choice again, the choice of life and death to ask Him in our life or not. That is our God given right.

If you hear a noise how do you know if that noise is dangerous or nothing, but understanding where it came from.

The world is satans but the Kingdom of God has come in His children and servants and they can choose to do Gods work or their own. Choice again for His servants and children if they will do the things God wants them to do. So people serving people, praying helping showing the power of God and allowing God to work through them is how God would like this world to be. But they have to be close enough to hear Him and have a relationship with Him. 

Joh 10:25  Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name.
Joh 10:26  But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep.
Joh 10:27  My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28  I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,

I guess God can make us do something but I have never known God to force me into anything. He has gone so far as to design situations that would make me do the thing He wanted me to of my own free will but, I have never know Him to say you have to. A big departure from the church and what an awesome God we serve that loves us so much to put us in situations so we can decide by our own free will what to choose. You could say then how is it free choice but there is always a choice. Plus what a awesome creative God we serve that would take time from His busy schedule and make a situation just for us. Think about how well He would have to know each one of us to do this.

I have gone on waaayyy to long so I will end it here 

Job 1:6  One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.
Job 1:7  “Where have you come from?” the LORD asked Satan. Satan answered the LORD, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.” 
Job 1:8  Then the LORD asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.” 
Job 1:9  Satan replied to the LORD, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. 
Job 1:10  You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does. Look how rich he is! 

Luk 17:21  You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.” 

2Co 4:4  Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 

2Co 4:7  We now have this light shining in our hearts, but we ourselves are like fragile clay jars containing this great treasure. This makes it clear that our great power is from God, not from ourselves. 

Jas 1:17  Whatever is good and perfect is a gift coming down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow. 
Jas 1:18  He chose to give birth to us by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his prized possession. 

Luk 11:10  For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 
Luk 11:11  “You fathers—if your children ask for a fish, do you give them a snake instead? 
Luk 11:12  Or if they ask for an egg, do you give them a scorpion? Of course not! 
Luk 11:13  So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him.” 

[Gryphon Rider]

I think it’s safe to say that literally millions of people have lived and died without the saving grace from the shedding of blood and death of Christ on the cross. I’m fairly certain that millions have lived and died with the knowledge in their heart and mind that their sins were forgiven and paid for by Christ’s sacrifice. As far as I know none of them have returned to tell of their experiences good or bad. I know “religion” is constantly under attack usually due to some indiscretion done by a individual or congregation that is hard to defend, that’s why I seldom refer to religion.

What’s important is a personal relationship with our Savior. First you have to have an open heart and mind. Then to have to actively search for the truth of his plan for your life and his plan of salvation. While not the best or easiest way to accomplish this, it can be done without ever setting foot in a church. You have to have a roadmap of course and it exists in the Bible. Everything you need to know can be found there. The only caveat to this is you must approach your study of the scriptures with a true desire to experience God in your personal life.

At some point once you come to the knowledge that God loves you and wants the best for you, you will want to share the good news. That is one of the most rewarding parts of being a Christian, the joy of sharing the good news. At some point you might seek out others and share your experiences and help others understand the change in your life. You might even want to join a church family and become a teacher or some other helper.

Free will comes into play when we become of age. The door is open to anyone willing to accept salvation and everyone is free to reject it. A very important issue that everyone should spend considerable time pondering what’s really important for themselves and by extension their families.

My parents did their job and made sure I was exposed to all the information I needed to understand to Gods love for me and his plan of salvation for my life. I haven’t done nearly as thorough a job with my son but he knows what he needs to know. I’m pulling up roots and moving to be able to be as involved with my grandsons as possible including making sure they know what God did for them. No more important task for me as I need for them to be able to make that free will choice to accept his saving grace and live in joy.

I can agree with some of what you say, with a couple of exceptions, or perhaps clarifications:

1. No one actually seeks God without first being drawn by God.

  The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.
  They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one. - Psalm 14:2-3

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. - John 6:44a

2. If you think you can obediently follow Christ without joining a local congregation of believers (assuming there is one), you are mistaken.  God designed the Christian life to be lived in community, as complementary parts of the body of Christ, seeking to build one another up in faith.  A huge number of the imperatives in the New Testament are impossible to follow outside the context of the church.  E.g. Hebrew 10:24-25: And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

[Robert]

1Jn 2:27  But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

Heb 10:25  And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

Rom 12:4  Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function,
Rom 12:5  so it is with Christ’s body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other.
Rom 12:6  In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out with as much faith as God has given you.
Rom 12:7  If your gift is serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, teach well.
Rom 12:8  If your gift is to encourage others, be encouraging. If it is giving, give generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly.

Eph 4:11  Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.
Eph 4:12  Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
Eph 4:13  This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Eph 4:14  Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.
Eph 4:15  Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.
Eph 4:16  He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the source of them all. 
1Co 12:5  There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord. 
1Co 12:6  God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in all of us. 
1Co 12:7  A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other. 
1Co 12:8  To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge. 
1Co 12:9  The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing. 
1Co 12:10  He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 
1Co 12:11  It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have. 
1Co 12:12  The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. 
1Co 12:13  Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit. 

[bscrive]

You can’t see because you don’t believe.

Chris,

I can't see it because it doesn't exist.  It's great for you that you do, but for me it is just a fantasy.  Someone quoted something like, people will believe that which fits their beliefs and discount things that don't, or something to that effect.  I believe that this is what you see.

[Serk]

...I once saw a politician with their hands in their OWN pockets... Does that count? 

[Serk]

You can’t see because you don’t believe.

Chris,

I can't see it because it doesn't exist.  It's great for you that you do, but for me it is just a fantasy.  Someone quoted something like, people will believe that which fits their beliefs and discount things that don't, or something to that effect.  I believe that this is what you see.

BSCrive... I get you... I really do... Militant Atheist/Agnostic since I opened my eyes... Fighting to protect my kids from being poisoned by the religious stuff that's forced on them from all directions in modern society.

But some times it's best to just let the believers believe. Let them find comfort where they find comfort.

As long as they're not forcing it on us, let them believe in their guardian angels, if it makes them feel better.

It took me a long time... almost 40 years... of fighting to come to peace with that.

May you find peace with that sooner than I did.

And I hope you've been touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster's Noodly Appendage...

[bscrive]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  ...  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  ...
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  ...

To answer your questions, it annoys you probably because of envy.  You believe you don't have a guardian angel and you're probably right.

Because so much in life contributes to who and what we become.  Growth comes more often than not from apparently bad experiences.  A guardian angel who protected one from an injurious experience that would have improved his perspective or worth would not be doing his job, would he?  Everyone obviously eventually dies.  If the job of the guardian angel is to protect from ALL harm there would be a lot of really old people walking around.  When it's time it's time.  Until then finding oneself at the door will likely have an impact on what we do or don't believe about life and our purpose in it.  

In that last phrase I would suggest you substitute assume for think.

As for me, one of the traits I've lost involves any concern for how what I say may annoy you.    It's an improvement.

Willow,

Both your statements are incorrect.  

First, I am not envious off anyone.  I don't care whom they are.

Second, if a guardian angel is not there to protect you from harm, then what is the purpose of one?  That's like having an airbag in a car and having it go off after the accident is over.

Sh!t happens.  There is no rhyme, or reason.  It's just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  

Two exact accidents can happen with two totally different results.  One can walk away and one could die, or any multitude of combinations can happen.  It just depends on differing factors on the drivers like height, weight, were they looking ahead, to the side , etc. at the time of the accident.  It's not that one person was better liked by their guardian angel, or the other person's guardian angel was gone for coffee.  It is just pure science and physics.

[bscrive]

...I once saw a politician with their hands in their OWN pockets... Does that count? 

That would be a miracle.....

[f6john]

I think it’s safe to say that literally millions of people have lived and died without the saving grace from the shedding of blood and death of Christ on the cross. I’m fairly certain that millions have lived and died with the knowledge in their heart and mind that their sins were forgiven and paid for by Christ’s sacrifice. As far as I know none of them have returned to tell of their experiences good or bad. I know “religion” is constantly under attack usually due to some indiscretion done by a individual or congregation that is hard to defend, that’s why I seldom refer to religion.

What’s important is a personal relationship with our Savior. First you have to have an open heart and mind. Then to have to actively search for the truth of his plan for your life and his plan of salvation. While not the best or easiest way to accomplish this, it can be done without ever setting foot in a church. You have to have a roadmap of course and it exists in the Bible. Everything you need to know can be found there. The only caveat to this is you must approach your study of the scriptures with a true desire to experience God in your personal life.

At some point once you come to the knowledge that God loves you and wants the best for you, you will want to share the good news. That is one of the most rewarding parts of being a Christian, the joy of sharing the good news. At some point you might seek out others and share your experiences and help others understand the change in your life. You might even want to join a church family and become a teacher or some other helper.

Free will comes into play when we become of age. The door is open to anyone willing to accept salvation and everyone is free to reject it. A very important issue that everyone should spend considerable time pondering what’s really important for themselves and by extension their families.

My parents did their job and made sure I was exposed to all the information I needed to understand to Gods love for me and his plan of salvation for my life. I haven’t done nearly as thorough a job with my son but he knows what he needs to know. I’m pulling up roots and moving to be able to be as involved with my grandsons as possible including making sure they know what God did for them. No more important task for me as I need for them to be able to make that free will choice to accept his saving grace and live in joy.

I can agree with some of what you say, with a couple of exceptions, or perhaps clarifications:

1. No one actually seeks God without first being drawn by God.

  The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.
  They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one. - Psalm 14:2-3

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. - John 6:44a

2. If you think you can obediently follow Christ without joining a local congregation of believers (assuming there is one), you are mistaken.  God designed the Christian life to be lived in community, as complementary parts of the body of Christ, seeking to build one another up in faith.  A huge number of the imperatives in the New Testament are impossible to follow outside the context of the church.  E.g. Hebrew 10:24-25: And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

My post was an attempt to approach a non believer in a purely intellectual manner. I see I failed to get my point across, as usual.

[98valk]

I don't know why I get annoyed hearing about guardian angel stories and god's intervention.  ...  If you had a guardian angel then why would they wait until you hurt yourself badly before they intervene?  Why would they not prevent the incident?  ...
To hurt yourself badly and be grateful that something worst didn't happen is not a sign of an angel, I would think.  ...

To answer your questions, it annoys you probably because of envy.  You believe you don't have a guardian angel and you're probably right.

Because so much in life contributes to who and what we become.  Growth comes more often than not from apparently bad experiences.  A guardian angel who protected one from an injurious experience that would have improved his perspective or worth would not be doing his job, would he?  Everyone obviously eventually dies.  If the job of the guardian angel is to protect from ALL harm there would be a lot of really old people walking around.  When it's time it's time.  Until then finding oneself at the door will likely have an impact on what we do or don't believe about life and our purpose in it.  

In that last phrase I would suggest you substitute assume for think.

As for me, one of the traits I've lost involves any concern for how what I say may annoy you.    It's an improvement.

  It is just pure science and physics.

“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.”
― Isaac Newton

“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.”
― Isaac Newton, The Principia: Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy

“He who thinks half-heartedly will not believe in God; but he who really thinks has to believe in God.”
― Isaac Newton

“Yet one thing secures us what ever betide, the scriptures assures us that the Lord will provide.”
― Isaac Newton

[Jess from VA]

Extremely strange and extremely lucky, yes.  Miracles, no.

If you've ever gotten completely sideways on your Valk (not with a car tire I haven't) and managed not to high side, then low side, then high side again, and got the violent tank slapper handlebar movement near the end of it, and got it back straight and under control, and then got your heart slowed back down, and not shat your knickers, that can seem pretty close to a miracle.  (mostly skill, some luck)

Or shoot into a good heavily wooded hillside backstop, and have a .45 slug come smoking by 2" from your ear (actually feel the breeze), that's another.  (completely luck)

Take two girls to the drive in movie, back the van up onto the watching spot, open the rear doors, and play sandwich games for the whole second feature.  (some skill, mostly luck, some vodka)  

[bscrive]

Take two girls to the drive in movie, back the van up onto the watching spot, open the rear doors, and play sandwich games for the whole second feature.  (some skill, mostly luck, some vodka)  

Ok...ok...I am changing my statement from above about envy.  Jess, you are the man!!! 

[Jess from VA]

Take two girls to the drive in movie, back the van up onto the watching spot, open the rear doors, and play sandwich games for the whole second feature.  (some skill, mostly luck, some vodka)  

Ok...ok...I am changing my statement from above about envy.  Jess, you are the man!!!  

Well, this was many years ago (when drive-ins still existed; 70's).  And they were room mates, and apparently shared everything.  And while my head was greatly swollen (both of them), it really ended up being much more work than you might imagine.  But dad always told me to finish what you start.

Back at their apartment, we went skinny dipping in the pool (round two).

It was a tough job, but someone had to do it.

Today, I'd just have to run up the white flag.  

It seemed like a miracle at the time.

[3fan4life]

Spending 30 yrs in EMS I have witnessed miracles in the lives of others.

In 50 + yrs of living I have experienced miracles in my own life as well.

One conclusion that I drew a long time ago is that no one dies before their time.

Some people's time just comes way too soon for those left behind.

Example one:

A Mustang with 5 teenagers hits a large oak tree at high speed.

Four of the Five are killed.

The lone survivor was ejected through the small rear side window.

My years of experience have since taught me that 99% of the time being ejected from the vehicle is fatal.


Example two:

A car plunges 60 ft off a cliff, there are three people inside (none of them restrained).

The car lands on its front end and then flips onto its roof.

The 70 yr old driver dies, a three yr old boy dies, his six month old brother is found wedged underneath the dash without a single scratch on him.


Example three:

A car runs off the road and through a fence.

One of the locust fence posts comes through the driver's floorboard and the bottom of the driver's seat.

It pierces him through the groin and comes out his lower back.

In surgery it is discovered that the post missed the femoral artery by mm's and did the same thing with his right  kidney.

In fact no major blood vessels or organs were damaged by the 4" X 4" locust post.


Example Four:

I'm driving along in my Chevy S-10 pickup approaching a blind railroad crossing.

The crossing is guarded so I have no thoughts of slowing down.

Suddenly I hear a loud voice say stop, it was so loud and clear that I immediately slammed on the brakes and looked to see who said it.

A split second later a freight train came barreling through the crossing.

It would be several more seconds before the lights would start flashing and the gate came down.


Example Five:

In 2008 I finally gave in and allowed a Dr to replace my Aortic valve.

Dr's had been after me for several yrs to have it done but because it would've most likely cost me my job I wouldn't hear of it.

After the surgery the surgeon said that my Aortic valve was so shredded that it should've been completely non functional.

Yet, I had been working and going about my daily activities with only a mild to moderate level of discomfort.   



Are these miracles by the OP's strict definition?

I don't know, but I do know that these are among the life experiences that confirm my beliefs to me.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks for sharing your stories Mark 
The one about the toddler under the dash made me think of a current event. I was just reading about a car wreck where the mom died, the car wasn't discovered. I think over a day later a 3 year old was spotted walking along a road. After some investigation they discover the mom hasn't been seen. They go back later, finally see the car and find a 1 year old strapped in his car seat.
 Maybe the next time we do a hill climb I will tell mine over a couple beers later. I'm not ready to put them out here. 

[f6john]

Recently a Baptist minister I know and respect was in a major car accident. His car was hit hard enough that it rolled several times and ended up on its roof with him hanging upside down from his seat belt. He had to cut out of the car and was rushed to a nearby hospital. After being check out all he had was some bruising and soreness. He was in his pulpit the next Sunday morning and related his experience to the congregation. He told his that the ER doctor told him that in his experience only two kinds of people survive an accident such as his, preachers and drunks. 

[hubcapsc]

Frank Smoke used to talk about praying constantly... I think the first
time we talked about it, we were talking about me in my helmet
and boots and him at the front of the pack with no helmet and
crummy shoes, but that's neither here nor there  

There's a lot of places where we're reminded to pray constantly, Luke 18,
I think 1 Thessalonians 5 might be about riding  

Rejoice Always
Pray constantly.
Give thanks in everything,


I remember heading off to the Fall Color Ride, I'd been doing a whole
bunch of bike maintenance, I only took it off the lift on Friday afternoon.
I took off, over the hill to Georgia, zoomed through curvy rush-hour multi-lane traffic
on 28 at Franklin, and then pulled over for gas. CLANK. Right as I stopped at the
pump, the big red lift adapter I'd left on the bike fell off.

I pray a lot while riding now. And you can ask anyone if it doesn't seem like
I'm pretty much always having fun (rejoicing). And God is certainly the fountain
from which all our blessings flow...

It is a blessing to be around to know that I'm only qualified to have a "stays-on" lift
adapter  

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

It is a blessing to be around to know that I'm only qualified to have a "stays-on" lift
adapter  

-Mike

[Wizzard]

I guess I look at believing like this. If I believe (and I do) that hell exists, then when I die and get to heaven I have gained everything and lost nothing. If its false I still have lost nothing.
But if its all true and I go to hell because I did not believe, then I have lost everything, so believing I have lost nothing and gained everything.
May not make sense to some, ,but it does to me, and that is what counts. 

[Wizzard]

Had a Sunday school teacher long ago whom all the kids loved that came down sick with a malignant brain tumor. It was on the MRI and very serious as to if he would survive the surgery. Day before his surgery our church laid hands on him and we all prayed. Next day he felt better and went in for surgery. They did another kind of MRI to mark where to cut, and there was no tumor. Still living today with no tumor.

[Serk]

I guess I look at believing like this. If I believe (and I do) that hell exists, then when I die and get to heaven I have gained everything and lost nothing. If its false I still have lost nothing.
But if its all true and I go to hell because I did not believe, then I have lost everything, so believing I have lost nothing and gained everything.
May not make sense to some, ,but it does to me, and that is what counts. 

Also known as Pascal's Wager.

My counter to it is if you believe and you're wrong, and you've been worshiping the WRONG deity, then when you die you'll be punished even harsher than someone who never picked a deity to worship at all.

Standard "Wading into religious discussions on a motorcycle forum" disclaimer apply - Do what makes you happy, what brings you peace and comfort, I'm not out to convert anyone or change anyone's minds, just explaining how I came to the conclusions I've come to.

[Wizzard]

I guess I look at believing like this. If I believe (and I do) that hell exists, then when I die and get to heaven I have gained everything and lost nothing. If its false I still have lost nothing.
But if its all true and I go to hell because I did not believe, then I have lost everything, so believing I have lost nothing and gained everything.
May not make sense to some, ,but it does to me, and that is what counts. 

Also known as Pascal's Wager.

My counter to it is if you believe and you're wrong, and you've been worshiping the WRONG deity, then when you die you'll be punished even harsher than someone who never picked a deity to worship at all.

Standard "Wading into religious discussions on a motorcycle forum" disclaimer apply - Do what makes you happy, what brings you peace and comfort, I'm not out to convert anyone or change anyone's minds, just explaining how I came to the conclusions I've come to.

That is exactly what I was doing 

[Alpha Dog]

Spending 30 yrs in EMS I have witnessed miracles in the lives of others.

In 50 + yrs of living I have experienced miracles in my own life as well.

One conclusion that I drew a long time ago is that no one dies before their time.

Some people's time just comes way too soon for those left behind.

Example one:

A Mustang with 5 teenagers hits a large oak tree at high speed.

Four of the Five are killed.

The lone survivor was ejected through the small rear side window.

My years of experience have since taught me that 99% of the time being ejected from the vehicle is fatal.


Example two:

A car plunges 60 ft off a cliff, there are three people inside (none of them restrained).

The car lands on its front end and then flips onto its roof.

The 70 yr old driver dies, a three yr old boy dies, his six month old brother is found wedged underneath the dash without a single scratch on him.


Example three:

A car runs off the road and through a fence.

One of the locust fence posts comes through the driver's floorboard and the bottom of the driver's seat.

It pierces him through the groin and comes out his lower back.

In surgery it is discovered that the post missed the femoral artery by mm's and did the same thing with his right  kidney.

In fact no major blood vessels or organs were damaged by the 4" X 4" locust post.


Example Four:

I'm driving along in my Chevy S-10 pickup approaching a blind railroad crossing.

The crossing is guarded so I have no thoughts of slowing down.

Suddenly I hear a loud voice say stop, it was so loud and clear that I immediately slammed on the brakes and looked to see who said it.

A split second later a freight train came barreling through the crossing.

It would be several more seconds before the lights would start flashing and the gate came down.


Example Five:

In 2008 I finally gave in and allowed a Dr to replace my Aortic valve.

Dr's had been after me for several yrs to have it done but because it would've most likely cost me my job I wouldn't hear of it.

After the surgery the surgeon said that my Aortic valve was so shredded that it should've been completely non functional.

Yet, I had been working and going about my daily activities with only a mild to moderate level of discomfort.   



Are these miracles by the OP's strict definition?

I don't know, but I do know that these are among the life experiences that confirm my beliefs to me.

Well 3fan, I can say that example 4 is a remarkable guardian angel experience, one I have heard from others hundreds of times.  One that comes to mind some years ago was a truck driver in the Rockies.  He was dead tired and heading downhill.  Next thing he remembers is waking up while rounding a curve and looking to this right to see another person in the passenger seat, when none was on board.  He regained control of the tractor and looked back over and that person was gone.  He then judged he had gone a couple of miles and rounded several curves while being asleep.

[Wizzard]

My oldest daughter wrecked her car in a snow storm some years back. Car went end over end twice then rolled once and landed on its top. She had her seat belt on. She climbed out unscathed and walked to the farmers house and called me. I went to pick her up, looked at the car and a steel fence post had come up through the floorboard right behind her seat, through the headrest and was sticking out the roof. She had no idea.

[3fan4life]

My oldest daughter wrecked her car in a snow storm some years back. Car went end over end twice then rolled once and landed on its top. She had her seat belt on. She climbed out unscathed and walked to the farmers house and called me. I went to pick her up, looked at the car and a steel fence post had come up through the floorboard right behind her seat, through the headrest and was sticking out the roof. She had no idea.

Some may call that luck or circumstance.
I call it a miracle.